Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

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dsr1
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p.1 #1 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

I have a 60D now and it's a wonderful camera but I really have a hard time photographing BIF. My keeper rate is maybe 3 in 10 which is awful. I also know my skills could use work but for BIF I think I might need more help.

I've always wanted a 1D series for BIF shots but but being just an enthusiast photographer, can't justify nor afford one until they'er older. I've been wondering if folks like me might be as well off buying a low milage, clean 1D IIn or 1DS II instead of a 7D or possibly the 70D when it comes out and which would you suggest?

I know the 1D II's have the 45 pt.. AF as well as the better build and many other advantages but it also has the older Dig II processor. Does the Dig. 1V processor and newer technology of the 60D & 7D make them as good as or better performers than the older, flag ship (when new) 1DII series.

I'd like to have a newer model but I don't understand why 1D III went back to the 19pt. AF system and a 1D IV is still out of my price range.

If a 1D IIn or 1Ds II would work better for my wildlife and BIF shooting, It would be my second camera with the 60D for volunteer event work at Church and our Extension office..

Your suggestions are welcome.

Edited on Aug 19, 2012 at 05:47 AM · View previous versions

Aug 19, 2012 at 05:38 AM

M Lucca
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p.1 #2 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Check out this thread and make your conclusion...

1d3 vs 7d for Wildlife (BIF)

Aug 19, 2012 at 05:43 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #3 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

The digic processor is not used for AF in the MK II series. It is part of the imaging system AFAIK. MK II cameras have fine AF.

EBH

Aug 19, 2012 at 05:49 AM

dsr1
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p.1 #4 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

M Lucca wrote:
Check out this thread and make your conclusion...

1d3 vs 7d for Wildlife (BIF)

I guess I'm not real sold on the 1D III because of the 19pt AF and reports I've heard of unreliable AF in brighter light. I'm wondering about the older 1D IIn mainly because I like the crop sencors but maybe the 1Ds II.

Edited on Aug 19, 2012 at 06:13 AM · View previous versions

Aug 19, 2012 at 06:02 AM

dsr1
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p.1 #5 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

EB-1 wrote:
The digic processor is not used for AF in the MK II series. It is part of the imaging system AFAIK. MK II cameras have fine AF.

EBH

Thanks EBH,
I may have worded that wrong. I'm sure the 45pt AF of the 1D II is better than the 9 or 19pt AF of the 60D & 7D but does the Dig II against the Dig IV processor cause other problems that I'm not used. After all, I'm talking about going backwards in technology from 2010 to 2004 to get the 45pt, AF and that kind of wories me also. The 60D is my first Canon.

Aug 19, 2012 at 06:12 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #6 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

The MK II bodies, digic and all, were quite reliable and durable. You might have to buy a new shutter every once in while and new batteries, but those cameras can run for years to come.

EBH

Aug 19, 2012 at 06:18 AM

Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #7 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Up until last week I had a mk2n , and I currently have a 7D and before the 7D I had a 40D.

First off the AF in the 40D (pretty much same as 60D) I found to be almost hopeless when shooting moving objects like BIF . It did get some in focus keepers but it was if it got them by accident . If your getting 3 out of 10 then your way better than I am (in fact I think 30% hitrate is quite high when you doing BIF)

Now the 7D v mk2n
The 7 puts up a berry good account for itself and is a very capable camera. But I will admit that the 1 area I found the mk2n to be the better performer was BIF . Don't get me wrong on its own the 7 seems pretty good but when shot next to each other the mk2n just seems that little bit more confident.

But in every other way I found the 7D to be the better camera so as I don't do much BIF I sold the mk2n

One suggestion I have would be have the best of both worlds . Get a standard mk2 for the BIF stuff and a 7D for everything else. The bottom has fallen out of the mk2 prices now (the 'n still fetches a bit of a premium) to the point that it's become the 'can have toy' spot that the mk1 used to take up.

Aug 19, 2012 at 06:19 AM

dsr1
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p.1 #8 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Up until last week I had a mk2n , and I currently have a 7D and before the 7D I had a 40D.

First off the AF in the 40D (pretty much same as 60D) I found to be almost hopeless when shooting moving objects like BIF . It did get some in focus keepers but it was if it got them by accident . If your getting 3 out of 10 then your way better than I am (in fact I think 30% hitrate is quite high when you doing BIF)

Now the 7D v mk2n
The 7 puts up a berry good account for itself and is a very capable camera. But I will admit that the 1 area I found the mk2n to be the better performer was BIF . Don't get me wrong on its own the 7 seems pretty good but when shot next to each other the mk2n just seems that little bit more confident.

But in every other way I found the 7D to be the better camera so as I don't do much BIF I sold the mk2n

One suggestion I have would be have the best of both worlds . Get a standard mk2 for the BIF stuff and a 7D for everything else. The bottom has fallen out of the mk2 prices now (the 'n still fetches a bit of a premium) to the point that it's become the 'can have toy' spot that the mk1 used to take up.

Thanks Ian,

I may have been streaching a little on my keeper count but it's been between 2 & 3 of 10 anyway.

If I can find a really clean low shutter count 1D IIn I would still have the 60D which is a good camera and size for my events work, so I'd have the best of both worlds for me, as you say.

Aug 19, 2012 at 06:38 AM

Jase1125
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p.1 #9 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

For clarification, the 1DIII does not have only 19 AF points, it has 45. Now only 19 are user selectable for framing and the rest act as assist points. AF on the 1d3 is very good and was the best at achieving servo focus in low light until recently. I wouldnt dismiss the 1D3 if I were you. Personally, I would get the 7D if your shooting is going to be mostly BIF. The crop sensor will help in focal length limited shooting situations. If you wanted a 1 series body, then I would get the 1D3. AF is great (after the fix), love the ergonomics and the image quality is a little better than the 7d. The downside is smaller megapickels for cropping and doesn't quite gather the same details as the 7d (but close).

Aug 19, 2012 at 12:34 PM

dsr1
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p.1 #10 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Jase1125 wrote:
For clarification, the 1DIII does not have only 19 AF points, it has 45. Now only 19 are user selectable for framing and the rest act as assist points. AF on the 1d3 is very good and was the best at achieving servo focus in low light until recently. I wouldnt dismiss the 1D3 if I were you. Personally, I would get the 7D if your shooting is going to be mostly BIF. The crop sensor will help in focal length limited shooting situations. If you wanted a 1 series body, then I would get the 1D3. AF is great (after the fix), love the ergonomics and the image quality is a little better than the 7d. The downside is smaller megapickels for cropping and doesn't quite gather the same details as the 7d (but close).

Thanks for the verification. Where did I read that the 1D III was 19pt. AF I wonder. I swear I've read that several times and could never understand why they would go backwards like that. I'll have to consider it now.

Aug 19, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #11 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Just for clarification

The 60D has 9 all cross type AF points
The 7D has 19 all cross type
The 1D3 has 45 points of which 19 are cross type and are the only ones selectable
The mk2 series (standard, n & s) have 45 all selectable with only 9 cross type.

You can pretty much find all the info on any of these by either reading the reviews on 'the digital picture' or going back thru the reviews in DPR . Both have pretty good diagrams on the systems.

Personally I think my 7D is a fine camera. I sold my mk2n as for what I wanted it for I'm reach limited a lot of the time even with my 100-400 and have to crop. So any of the lower mp larger sensor bodies does not suit me.

Aug 19, 2012 at 01:12 PM

3catsinky
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p.1 #12 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

the 1dsII has amazing image quality! Easily surpasses the cameras you mentioned, and nearly everything else
as well. That being said, the buffer is that camera's biggest draw back. I had a 1dMK II as well, and it's AF never missed. fantastic camera! fell apart at high iso, but I am an event shooter. If you can find a IIn for a great
price, buy it, if you can live with the lower resolution.

Aug 19, 2012 at 01:22 PM

dsr1
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p.1 #13 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

3catsinky wrote:
the 1dsII has amazing image quality! Easily surpasses the cameras you mentioned, and nearly everything else
as well. That being said, the buffer is that camera's biggest draw back. I had a 1dMK II as well, and it's AF never missed. fantastic camera! fell apart at high iso, but I am an event shooter. If you can find a IIn for a great
price, buy it, if you can live with the lower resolution.

You're right that the 1Ds II has great IQ but for what I want with the BIF I think the1D IIn would be better for the crop sensor or the 1D III now that I've been straightened out on the AF. Still scratching my head as to where I came up with the 19pt AF on the III. I've probably gone over that chart 5 or 6 times.

Aug 19, 2012 at 08:06 PM

uz2work
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p.1 #14 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

dsr1 wrote:
3catsinky wrote:
the 1dsII has amazing image quality! Easily surpasses the cameras you mentioned, and nearly everything else
as well. That being said, the buffer is that camera's biggest draw back. I had a 1dMK II as well, and it's AF never missed. fantastic camera! fell apart at high iso, but I am an event shooter. If you can find a IIn for a great
price, buy it, if you can live with the lower resolution.

You're right that the 1Ds II has great IQ but for what I want with the BIF I think the1D IIn would be better for the crop sensor or the 1D III now that I've been straightened out on the AF. Still scratching my head as to where I came up with the 19pt AF on the III. I've probably gone over that chart 5 or 6 times.

I had a 1D Mark II and a 1D Mark III. I loved using both of them. Both were great cameras for their time, and both are still capable of taking great images. I thought that the 1D Mark III was a nice step up from the 1D Mark II in a number of ways. Now, though, especially the 1D Mark II (or 1D Mark II N) is starting to show its age compared to more recent cameras.

While either the 1D Mark II or 1D Mark III could still be an excellent camera for shooting action, neither would be close to my first choice for shooting BIF. With only 8 MP for the 1D Mark II and 10 MP for the 1D Mark III, you are going to need to be very close to your subjects, and there just isn't much room for cropping. For me as primarily a wildlife shooter, the two biggest benefit to my shooting from the many camera upgrades that I've done over the last decade came from the upgrades that I made to the 1D Mark IV and the 7D. With both of those cameras, the boosts in the MP count gave me the cropping room that I had always wanted, and, with the 7D in particular, the pixel density especially gave me both that cropping room and also the ability to be more mobile by being able to get significant reach without having to use a lens that weighs 8 pounds or more.

Les

Aug 19, 2012 at 08:22 PM

form
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p.1 #15 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

I bought a 1ds II once, sold it within a few months, will never recommend it. IQ is not even close to the flexibility of modern cameras. Focus speed was adequate, focus reliability wasn't all that great IMO, certainly not as good as the best modern cameras, and tracking definitely wasn't that good either (especially in light around ISO800 f/2.8 1/125). The dynamic range flexibility of 1ds II RAW files is severely limited in the shadows. LCD is TINY and image review is SLOW. Controls are awkward. I'd pick a 5d2 before 1ds II for anything except number of AF points...

Aug 19, 2012 at 10:40 PM

mttran
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p.1 #16 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

form wrote:
I bought a 1ds II once, sold it within a few months, will never recommend it. IQ is not even close to the flexibility of modern cameras. Focus speed was adequate, focus reliability wasn't all that great IMO, certainly not as good as the best modern cameras, and tracking definitely wasn't that good either (especially in light around ISO800 f/2.8 1/125). The dynamic range flexibility of 1ds II RAW files is severely limited in the shadows. LCD is TINY and image review is SLOW. Controls are awkward. I'd pick a 5d2 before 1ds II for anything except number of AF points...

Definitely you got the bad one compared to mine and others around here. Just take a look of Peter's posts for its IQ and AF performance. I also have 5d2 as well so i know what differences between them. 5D2 IQ is nice but it won't please me the way 1Ds2 does after post. Here is jpg sooc samples from Peter's post and their shadows definitely a winner here

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1127903/43#10894202
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1127903/43#10895199

Aug 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM

Matt Kerby
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p.1 #17 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

^^I agree 100% I shot a 5DmkII for a couple years, but just went back to a 1DsmkII and have to say...It's great to be shooting it again..IQ, to me, like you said, after post, is just better with the 1DsmkII....I think you just got bad one Form....I think the only thing that is better on the 5DmkII is the bells and whistles and the high ISO performance.

Aug 20, 2012 at 03:03 AM

Cicopo
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p.1 #18 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Form either got a bad 1Ds2 or simply didn't learn how to use it to it's potential. There are far too many of us with them getting excellent results to go with his reasoning. I have & still shoot a 1Ds2, 7D & now a 1D4 plus I have but rarely use a 1D2n & I've owned 2 of them, plus I've owned a 5d & 5D2 but the 1Ds2 was superior to them for my use. The 7D will give you the most for BIF relative to prices right now (used prices) and that because it has the most pixels on the BIF. It's AF can do the job, but there's a learning curve so keep that in mind. When you compare the number of pixels you have to work with a 1Ds2 cropped to the same sized image a 1.3 or 1.6 crop body gives the extra pixel count of the 1Ds2 is gone, making the 7D the clear winner when it comes to pixels per duck.
Having said that my 7D will be going up for sale after next weekends R/C event but for the wrong reasons. From my observations the 5D3 has killed the used market for 1Ds2's & I just don't need all the bodies I own, so the 7D will be the one to go. I like my 1Ds2 way too much to sell it for current market prices & I'll be far happier keeping it over the 7D.

Aug 20, 2012 at 03:30 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #19 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

Although the 1Ds II gets noisy at high ISOs, normally it has much better IQ than the 7D. The color filter array was the last of the accurate ones for a while. The 7D, 5D II, etc. had weaker filters to provide more light to the sensors for increased high ISO performance. AF was not perfect, but much more consistent than the 5D II off center.

EBH

Aug 20, 2012 at 03:48 AM

verbiage
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p.1 #20 · Do 1D IIn & 1DsII out perform 60D or 7D?

One "feature" of the 1D IIn is that it completely freezes when the buffer fills up. After shooting a 5D II and a (rented) ID IV, I developed sloppy habits of "spraying the action." Where newer cameras simply slow down to 1-2 fps when the buffer is full (shooting raw), the 1D IIn (and presumably other contemporary cameras) need to "sit and write" for about 30 seconds before you can take another shot, and more than a minute (I think) for the buffer to clear completely. I think the 7D also only slows down... while 60D freezes briefly (for a couple of seconds).

Just something to consider if you're planning to shoot longer bursts.

Aug 20, 2012 at 05:46 PM

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