Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2012 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?
  
 
John Wheeler
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


There is an image and some blowups that Nikon provided the day they announced the D800/D800E. Here is a link to that PDF file that contains these images:
http://www.ephotozine.com/images/articles/18421/Nikon-D800-Launch.pdf
Here is the set of three images they were using for comparisonL







After some analysis I realized that there is an issue with this comparison. The blown up image for the D800 was compressed a whole lot more than the image for the D800E. In fact, you can extract both images out of the PDF file with Adobe Acrobat Pro and find out that the D800 image was 214x240 pixels and the D800E image was ~1008x1130 pixels. The presentation was put together with Apples Keynote software and I suspect that two different size images were dropped in next to each other. That leaves the compression and viewing up to Adobe Acrobat Reader. Doesn't sound too apples to apples comparison to me!

Other than just extracting the images out of the PDF, I could also tell there was an issue by extracting out the luminosity, saturation, and hue channels from the paired images. JPEG compression artifacts show up real well with this approach and the higher the compression the higher the pixelation particularly in the Saturation and Hue images.

Original






Luminosity Channel






Saturation Channel (brightened some to show the pixelation better)






Hue Channel






I don't doubt that the D800E is sharper. In fact, Nikon has some other comparison images that are compressed at the same level (and the difference is not as large between the two images).

Since I saw a number of folks on these and other forums saying "wow" about this particular image, I thought I would raise a flag. I also will be writing in to Nikon about this discrepancy. I am sure it would not be hard to fix and put out a better apples to apples comparison rather than having adding in different image compression/scaling/rendering issues on top. Seems like a blunder to me. FYI




Feb 21, 2012 at 11:12 AM
alundeb
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


Good catch.

What magnification are we looking at? It looks like both crops are interpolated way beoynd 100%. They are both very blurry and totally lacking in pixel detail, and the size ratio suggests around 200%, just for the small crops?



Feb 21, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Mark_L
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


There certainly seems something very odd about the comparison just looking at it, there doesn't look to be any more actual detail in the E file just more local contrast.


Feb 21, 2012 at 11:45 AM
John Wheeler
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


alundeb wrote:
Good catch.

What magnification are we looking at? It looks like both crops are interpolated way beoynd 100%. They are both very blurry and totally lacking in pixel detail, and the size ratio suggests around 200%, just for the small crops?


Since this was published in a PDF file, the viewing magnification is in question. Assuming that the original image was not cropped with the horizontal length being the full 7360 pixels of the Nikon D800/D800E then the crop would be right at 214 pixels wide (which is what was in the PDF file BTW). I used the image at this link (click on paired image to magnify) and that is what I used for the images in my previous post. That calculates to a magnification of between 200% and 300% (277% by my calculation). The two smaller crops are at about 150%. It would be much better if they provided 100% crops yet the PDF file was a presentation made with Keynote software so Nikon may not have realized how widespread this image would become.

Here is the link to another Nikon side by side comparison image that has the same pixels and compression applied. Not a lot of difference in this pair of images yet there is a difference:







Edited on Feb 21, 2012 at 12:15 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2012 at 11:58 AM
John Wheeler
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


Mark_L wrote:
There certainly seems something very odd about the comparison just looking at it, there doesn't look to be any more actual detail in the E file just more local contrast.


Hi Mark
With these images, I believe at this point it would be impossible to separate out is compression related differences vs D800 vs D800E differences. I think a better comparison would be the image in my immediate prior post that was also provided by Nikon.



Feb 21, 2012 at 12:00 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



bbvaj
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


It seems to me even on the rock, the differences in detail of the shadows are more due to exposure/lighting difference in the shots, than due to sharpness of 800E... (also possible there is slight difference in the amount of light transmission between the two)

I am not 100% sure but it seems to me like that. What do you guys think?



Feb 21, 2012 at 04:17 PM
John Wheeler
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


I think there is a sharpness difference. I took the sample image and took the crack(?) in the rock just lower right of center at 400% view below. I adjusted the exposure and color just slightly with a Levels and then Hue Sat Adj layer (just eyeballed it a bit so not perfect). If I back up from the monitor, the D800E still seems sharper to me. BTW, this is the image that has both at the same compression level so is more apples to apples.








Feb 21, 2012 at 05:05 PM
Airphoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


I agree there is a slight sharpness difference, and if you look through the samples at Nikon you will se a slight distinct sharpness in the 800E. But most people are going to have to determine is it worth the differences? and If you buy an 800e will you buy the zeiss primes to go with it?.
Either one is a great choice for a high MP camera!!



Feb 21, 2012 at 07:31 PM
alundeb
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · D800 vs D800E image comparison blunder?


The difference is like stopping down one stop more into the diffraction regime, around f/11, sort of like expected.

In useful ways, it can be transformed to:

- You can gain more DoF by stopping down more before the sum of diffraction and filter blur becomes a problem.

- You can apply less sharpening to get the same output micro contrast, and thus avoid amplifying noise with the sharpening. In some cases it will allow you to use a higher ISO and end up with the same final image noise.



Feb 22, 2012 at 10:35 AM





FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Retrive password