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Archive 2011 · Followup to zeiss 25 review
  
 
philber
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p.5 #1 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


What "facts" do we have, Ulrik? Some shots, reduced in IQ to Internet level, some MTFs, some opinions, and whatever trust one places -or not- in Zeiss expertise. That is a bagful of "facts" -or not-...:-)
As far as I am concerned, for example, the kinds of superlatives used by Lloyd Chambers is very confidence inspiring, since he was far more critical with the ZE 35 f:1.4 than my own standards. So that is my choice of "facts". Which is why I await my 25 f:2.0...



Dec 02, 2011 at 09:27 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #2 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


As I see it, we have two main "facts" relative to the discussion of this thread.

1) Jorge went out of his way to attempt a comparison of the Canon 24 1.4 and Zeiss 25 2 lenses. Thanks
Unfortunately, said comparison has been shown to be flawed by Jorge, evident by the different points of focus with the Canon lens, particularly obvious in that the F2 infinity Canon shot is dramatically sharper than the F 2.8 shot in the same areas.

2) Lloyd Chambers performed an infinity test with the Zeiss 25 F2 lens. The images show obvious softness in the corners even at F11 at infinity focus.

Those are facts. To some, they may not matter, to others they may.

Any superlatives which are used by Jorge or Lloyd to describe the Zeiss 25 F2 lens are opinions. You may agree or disagree with these. For myself, I prefer to look at the images at Lloyd's side first and form my own opinions based on the "facts" shown by the actual images Sometimes, his superlatives back up what I see, sometimes they are way off.



Dec 02, 2011 at 12:39 PM
ulrikft2
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p.5 #3 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


philber wrote:
What "facts" do we have, Ulrik? Some shots, reduced in IQ to Internet level, some MTFs, some opinions, and whatever trust one places -or not- in Zeiss expertise. That is a bagful of "facts" -or not-...:-)
As far as I am concerned, for example, the kinds of superlatives used by Lloyd Chambers is very confidence inspiring, since he was far more critical with the ZE 35 f:1.4 than my own standards. So that is my choice of "facts". Which is why I await my 25 f:2.0...


I was making a carricature of those talking about "facts" about canon and nikon counterparts..



Dec 02, 2011 at 03:02 PM
staticInc
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p.5 #4 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


The man of all camera gear wisdom has posted his "review".


Dec 02, 2011 at 03:49 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.5 #5 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


staticInc wrote:
The man of all camera gear wisdom has posted his "review".


It is very reassuring to know it is much sharper than the canon 28/1.8



Dec 02, 2011 at 03:59 PM
philber
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p.5 #6 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


Tariq, what you call "obvious softness" based on somebody else's picture is as much an opinion as Lloyd Chambers'. You have a right to yours of course, just as I have of not accepting it as "fact".


Dec 02, 2011 at 04:01 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.5 #7 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


From the 2nd paragraph of the review

As stated before in my other reviews, this is an unscientific,unbiased and personal review from a users point of view.



Dec 02, 2011 at 04:05 PM
magiclight
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p.5 #8 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


Jorge, welcome to the world of lenses reviews. It is a thankless task.

It is also why MR over on Lum. Landscape mostly gave up on these sort of tests some years back.




Dec 02, 2011 at 09:56 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.5 #9 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


edwardkaraa wrote:
Haha, I was thinking the same thing

It seems to me those who trash the lens aggressively and mercilessly either own an expensive alternative (like the Canon or Nikon 24) and feel threatened by the new model, or in the second group some who cannot afford or justify the expense of the new lens so they just trash it. Just human behavior



Yes, I think I am the only one here who owns and uses a Nikon or Canon 24/1.4 so I am a small group too. Ha Ha!
I think Lotus and I are the only ones who have voiced their dislike of Zeiss not designing a faster class leading 25/1.4 lens like CaNikon offer and maybe Samyang very soon. So I realize that my opinion is not in the main stream of the alt forum. I can see that by my Zeiss poll thread. But I never feel threatened as I have lenses from Zeiss, Leica, Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Sony, Olympus, and Samyang/Rokinon. If the new ZE 25/2 was f1.4 and as sharp at f1.4 as the Nikon, I would sell my Nikon and get the Zeiss. I still have enjoyed all the use and shots I have gotten over the 1.5 years I have had it when there wasn't a Zeiss option.
The reason I stated the negatives/cons with this ZE 25/2 is reaction to people when they state a lens is clearly better than all existing lenses when that is not true. Yes, there are some advantages of that lens over others, but the alts also have their advantages. We all have our own weighting system for the different characteristics of a lens like price,size,weight,speed,amount of CA,FC, sharpness, etc. and so I understand when someone says for them that this lens is great. That person may have different shooting styles, may never print big, etc. and so may not care so much about soft corners.

So Zeiss 25/2 owners/lovers enjoy shooting your lens and saying how lovely it is, but pls. don't say it is the best out there unless you can show some well done fair comparison shots.

And last I agree with Tariq, in that I want Zeiss, Leica, Canon, Nikon and all the camera and lens makers to produce exciting, great leading edge designs which tempt me to spend all my money on them and make me want to join alt lensaholic anonymous.




Dec 03, 2011 at 12:43 AM
redisburning
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p.5 #10 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


no one said the 25/2 is the best lens ever made.

they said that under a controlled set of circumstances it outperforms other high end lenses.

as far as I can tell, you are some kind of paranoid. instead of thinking the OP/"zeiss crowd" is out to get you, maybe you should think long and hard about why you think zebra when you hear hoof beats.



Dec 03, 2011 at 06:03 AM
 

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ulrikft2
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p.5 #11 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


redisburning wrote:
no one said the 25/2 is the best lens ever made.

they said that under a controlled set of circumstances it outperforms other high end lenses.

as far as I can tell, you are some kind of paranoid. instead of thinking the OP/"zeiss crowd" is out to get you, maybe you should think long and hard about why you think zebra when you hear hoof beats.


1) Stop attacking straw men.

2) "under a controlled set of circumstances it outperforms" is the exact thing that some of us argue to be wrong.

So, if you could tone down the psych. eval. of other forum members and try to apply basic logic in your next post, we would all be happy..



Dec 03, 2011 at 11:35 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.5 #12 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


redisburning wrote:
no one said the 25/2 is the best lens ever made.

they said that under a controlled set of circumstances it outperforms other high end lenses.

as far as I can tell, you are some kind of paranoid. instead of thinking the OP/"zeiss crowd" is out to get you, maybe you should think long and hard about why you think zebra when you hear hoof beats.


From Jorge's review which he posted the link in the first of these two threads:

" Between 5.6 and f11 this lens is leaps and bounds ahead of anything out there."
He tried to compare two totally different shots to compare sharpness between the new Zeiss and the OLD Canon 24/1.4. Then later he tried to do a side by side comparison and that failed due to different focus points as many pointed out. Yes, lens comparisons can be a lot of work and easy to screw up.
I thank him for trying.
You lost me on the whole paranoid/zebra thing. Lol!
Plus I currently have more Zeiss lenses which I have shot regularly over time than some of the referred Zeiss experts so I am not worried. I just try to keep it real as most do in the alt forum.



Dec 03, 2011 at 06:58 PM
redisburning
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p.5 #13 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


ulrikft2 wrote:
1) Stop attacking straw men.

2) "under a controlled set of circumstances it outperforms" is the exact thing that some of us argue to be wrong.

So, if you could tone down the psych. eval. of other forum members and try to apply basic logic in your next post, we would all be happy..


what straw man?

Im sorry, his blatant non-objectivity irritates me. Wayne can say anything he wants to the contrary but his sole motivation seems to be some delusion that the OP wrote what he did with some sort of agenda. this is a relevant discussion because it clearly is effecting the way he looks at the pictures, whether they were ideal or not.

and you can quote any damn fallacy you want from your high school language class, that doesnt mean they apply. stop with post hoc ergo proctor hoc. oh wait, that is as meaningless to what you said as any suggestion of a straw man is to what I said.

let me be clear, I am not trying to suggest that his perspective is invalidating his points. that would be a straw man. what I am saying is that it's ****ing annoying. his other points are well taken.

nice smiley, makes you look real mature.



Dec 03, 2011 at 09:07 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #14 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


Jorge *always* writes with an agenda: getting hits to his various websites. You'll almost never see his content here, always a link to one of his own sites. If his review had been done with as much effort as his constant attempts at redirection are, it would have been much stronger.


Dec 03, 2011 at 09:36 PM
ulrikft2
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p.5 #15 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


redisburning wrote:
what straw man?

Im sorry, his blatant non-objectivity irritates me. Wayne can say anything he wants to the contrary but his sole motivation seems to be some delusion that the OP wrote what he did with some sort of agenda. this is a relevant discussion because it clearly is effecting the way he looks at the pictures, whether they were ideal or not.

and you can quote any damn fallacy you want from your high school language class, that doesnt mean they apply. stop with post hoc ergo proctor hoc. oh wait, that is as meaningless to what you said as any
...Show more


I told you to stop the psych. eval. of other forum members. If you are unable to do so, I think it would be better for everyone if you found your way out of this subforum.



Dec 04, 2011 at 09:37 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.5 #16 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


Jorge Torralba wrote:
Ha,

I will let you post it. I'm staying out of this.


You could of course try to focus the Canon lens in a proper way If you can't see (frontfocus) that the cars are sharper than the house with the Canon lens you need new glasses



Dec 04, 2011 at 10:30 AM
akul
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p.5 #17 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


----- edited out - wrong post in wrong thread ------

Edited on Dec 05, 2011 at 04:16 AM · View previous versions



Dec 04, 2011 at 12:41 PM
AhamB
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p.5 #18 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


@akul: I think you're posting your question in the wrong thread. You probably meant to post your question in reply to this post: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1065413/1#10136622


Dec 04, 2011 at 01:13 PM
redisburning
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p.5 #19 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


ulrikft2 wrote:
I told you to stop the psych. eval. of other forum members. If you are unable to do so, I think it would be better for everyone if you found your way out of this subforum.


let me draw a venn diagram for you:

world we live in world where I care what you think
( ) ( )

I understand that English may not be your first language, but you clearly need this to be spelt out for you. I am not "psych eval." ing people. I am reacting to displayed behavior. they are not the same thing. I have made zero effort to explain why wayne is doing what he is, only complaining about the end result. this is a very simple dichotomy that you seem to have some basic failure to understand.



Dec 04, 2011 at 05:58 PM
ulrikft2
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p.5 #20 · Followup to zeiss 25 review


redisburning wrote:
let me draw a venn diagram for you:

world we live in world where I care what you think
( ) ( )

I understand that English may not be your first language, but you clearly need this to be spelt out for you. I am not "psych eval." ing people. I am reacting to displayed behavior. they are not the same thing. I have made zero effort to explain why wayne is doing what he is, only complaining about the end result. this is a very simple dichotomy that you seem to have
...Show more

You are diagnosing your fellow forum members and in general acting like a rather ignorant newbie. You are condescending even though you have no reason to be and you lack not only the basic manners needed to follow a mature debate, but also a basic understanding of logic... So again, I ask you not to label. Hose who disagree with you as delusional or otherwise diagnose them. If that is too hard for you to follow, get out of the forum, I'm sure dpreview has room for the likes of you..



Dec 04, 2011 at 08:02 PM
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