Archive 2010 · Vagabond Mini Lithium
p.6 #1Vagabond Mini Lithium
MNPNW wrote:
Zeus being discontinued.
Maybe PCB can launch a Mini-Zeus to replace it... Lightweight head about 1.5 pounds w/o cord, 4 pound pack using Einstein like electronics with power up to 1250 WS. Add a VML and you're good for light on a stick.
Okay, it may not be possible, we can always hope.
//signed agreed.
I like Monoblocks if I'm going to have to be plugged into a wall, but if I need to be plugged into a battery, might as well make it a pack too. 640 WS would be fine enough too. Difficult thing is that with a Vagabond Mini, PCB won't be able to easily repurpose it for a lightweight head unless he completely redesigns it... it'll still be an inverter + battery solution.
Given that Paul's discontinuing the Zeus I think he'll be hesitant to try out the whole pack + head thing again.
Zeus being discontinued.
Maybe PCB can launch a Mini-Zeus to replace it... Lightweight head about 1.5 pounds w/o cord, 4 pound pack using Einstein like electronics with power up to 1250 WS. Add a VML and you're good for light on a stick.
Okay, it may not be possible, we can always hope.
//signed agreed.
I like Monoblocks if I'm going to have to be plugged into a wall, but if I need to be plugged into a battery, might as well make it a pack too. 640 WS would be fine enough too. Difficult thing is that with a Vagabond Mini, PCB won't be able to easily repurpose it for a lightweight head unless he completely redesigns it... it'll still be an inverter + battery solution.
Given that Paul's discontinuing the Zeus I think he'll be hesitant to try out the whole pack + head thing again.
Sep 07, 2010 at 09:47 PM
p.6 #2Vagabond Mini Lithium
The "Zeus discontinued" was wrongly stated by our webmaster. What was supposed to have been posted was that Zeus would continue to be available to customers, but that our monolights were recommended over Zeus for new installations. Why? Even though Zeus offers a whole lot of bang for the buck and is a powerful system, it doesn't sell well enough for us to continue to promote it.
Sep 07, 2010 at 10:43 PM
p.6 #3Vagabond Mini Lithium
So if the Zues didn't sell well enough, would you be willing to try a smaller battery/pack head combo? 
Please? With a cherry ontop?
Funny thing is, reading forum posts 2 out of 3 posts I read about the Zeus included some misguided belief that the system was a battery pack similar to the Vagabond.
Please? With a cherry ontop?
Funny thing is, reading forum posts 2 out of 3 posts I read about the Zeus included some misguided belief that the system was a battery pack similar to the Vagabond.
Sep 07, 2010 at 11:46 PM
Chris Beaumont
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p.6 #4Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul, I understand the sentiment on the shipping costs, I really do, but indulge me while I play Devil's Advocate for a moment:
I had a 1Ds that I bought on the buy&sell board here at Fred Miranda shipped over for <$30 only last December, are you telling me that a multi-million dollar outfit shipping over what is undoubtedly thousands (if not tens of thousands) of items at a time in bulk containers incurs greater shipping costs for an individual item that weighs a fraction of what a 1Ds with spare batteries, chargers etc etc does?
Even assuming that you ship everything in invidual boxes rather than nose-to-tail reflectors and flat-pack boxes, so each reflector in its own box would be roughly the same size (if not weight) of the aforementioned 1Ds box, there's surely huge volume discounts on a 30x30 box if it's in a shipping container the size of a block of flats rather than one parcel going to Fred Bloggs of Prettytown, Essex?
I had a 1Ds that I bought on the buy&sell board here at Fred Miranda shipped over for <$30 only last December, are you telling me that a multi-million dollar outfit shipping over what is undoubtedly thousands (if not tens of thousands) of items at a time in bulk containers incurs greater shipping costs for an individual item that weighs a fraction of what a 1Ds with spare batteries, chargers etc etc does?
Even assuming that you ship everything in invidual boxes rather than nose-to-tail reflectors and flat-pack boxes, so each reflector in its own box would be roughly the same size (if not weight) of the aforementioned 1Ds box, there's surely huge volume discounts on a 30x30 box if it's in a shipping container the size of a block of flats rather than one parcel going to Fred Bloggs of Prettytown, Essex?
Sep 08, 2010 at 03:49 AM
p.6 #5Vagabond Mini Lithium
A B400 is a pretty lightweight head--lighter than a lot of power pack heads. Maybe there will someday be a replacement line for the Bees that will incorporate Einstein technology...Smart Bees.
Sep 08, 2010 at 06:31 AM
p.6 #6Vagabond Mini Lithium
+1 for a smart B400 with IGBT flash cutoff.
I'm seeing a mix of Einsteins & Smart Bee 400's along with VBM's in my future. Probably 1 VBM, 1 Einstein and 1 B400 to start ... adding more when the Smart Bees arrive.
Paul ... I appreciate the detailed and translucent explanation regarding international shipping. I know that when I have shipped items to other FM'ers around the world (different scale of economy I realize) finding a shipping solution that didn't 'kill me' was a trick, but fortunately the 'customer' was always very understanding of the reality of those shipping costs and accepted the need to pay for them or I would be 'eating the costs'.
Others may suggest that you could do better on shipping, but many will overlook the balancing act between shipping costs, shipping quantity, production lead times, backlog management, delivery times to other customers, inventory costs, coordinating multiple vendors and a few other issues that come into play behind the scenes in manufacturing & distribution.
On paper, and in theory it seems very simple ... but in reality it is not as straightforward as it would seem to those who have never had to actually contend with getting manufacturing to market on an international basis. I've had to work against these factors many times in my plight to optimize efficiency for production, maintenance & reliability in various industries over the years (both domestic and international).
Is there room for improvement ... maybe, sure. But probably not to the degree that some might think. Keeping your costs to the customer in mind IS part of your business plan, so I'm quite certain that you have already given much thought to the matter ... and will continue to do so.
Bring on the VBM's & Smart Bees ... Woo-Hoo !!!
Edited on Sep 08, 2010 at 07:26 AM · View previous versions
I'm seeing a mix of Einsteins & Smart Bee 400's along with VBM's in my future. Probably 1 VBM, 1 Einstein and 1 B400 to start ... adding more when the Smart Bees arrive.
Paul ... I appreciate the detailed and translucent explanation regarding international shipping. I know that when I have shipped items to other FM'ers around the world (different scale of economy I realize) finding a shipping solution that didn't 'kill me' was a trick, but fortunately the 'customer' was always very understanding of the reality of those shipping costs and accepted the need to pay for them or I would be 'eating the costs'.
Others may suggest that you could do better on shipping, but many will overlook the balancing act between shipping costs, shipping quantity, production lead times, backlog management, delivery times to other customers, inventory costs, coordinating multiple vendors and a few other issues that come into play behind the scenes in manufacturing & distribution.
On paper, and in theory it seems very simple ... but in reality it is not as straightforward as it would seem to those who have never had to actually contend with getting manufacturing to market on an international basis. I've had to work against these factors many times in my plight to optimize efficiency for production, maintenance & reliability in various industries over the years (both domestic and international).
Is there room for improvement ... maybe, sure. But probably not to the degree that some might think. Keeping your costs to the customer in mind IS part of your business plan, so I'm quite certain that you have already given much thought to the matter ... and will continue to do so.
Bring on the VBM's & Smart Bees ... Woo-Hoo !!!
Edited on Sep 08, 2010 at 07:26 AM · View previous versions
Sep 08, 2010 at 06:59 AM
p.6 #7Vagabond Mini Lithium
Stephen W wrote:
Funny thing is, reading forum posts 2 out of 3 posts I read about the Zeus included some misguided belief that the system was a battery pack similar to the Vagabond.
...comes from a basic misundstanding of what pack/head actually means, followed by griping that they can't control the heads totally independently and how ratios are a PITA ;-)
It wasn't a bad concept at the time, but it's funny that a B1600 is roughly the weight of a Speedotron 102 head...still makes sense for anything over 1200WS...
I suspect the lightweight pack/head you wish for will be the head powered by a Dewalt lithium battery...
p.s., no need for a B400 w/ IGBT. The Einstein will power down to B400 levels and even speedlight levels. I mixed it happily w/ speedlights at low power...
Funny thing is, reading forum posts 2 out of 3 posts I read about the Zeus included some misguided belief that the system was a battery pack similar to the Vagabond.
...comes from a basic misundstanding of what pack/head actually means, followed by griping that they can't control the heads totally independently and how ratios are a PITA ;-)It wasn't a bad concept at the time, but it's funny that a B1600 is roughly the weight of a Speedotron 102 head...still makes sense for anything over 1200WS...
I suspect the lightweight pack/head you wish for will be the head powered by a Dewalt lithium battery...
p.s., no need for a B400 w/ IGBT. The Einstein will power down to B400 levels and even speedlight levels. I mixed it happily w/ speedlights at low power...
Sep 08, 2010 at 07:21 AM
p.6 #8Vagabond Mini Lithium
p.s., no need for a B400 w/ IGBT.
... in the quest for the 'lightest' package ... (or will it be a negligible difference)?
NOTE: Just placed an order for a B400 ... remembered that even without the IGBT the flash duration @ .5 & .1 is still quite short and should complement the Einstein and VBM nicely.
Sep 08, 2010 at 07:29 AM
p.6 #9Vagabond Mini Lithium
Chris Beaumont wrote:
Paul, I understand the sentiment on the shipping costs, I really do, but indulge me while I play Devil's Advocate for a moment:
I had a 1Ds that I bought on the buy&sell board here at Fred Miranda shipped over for <$30 only last December, are you telling me that a multi-million dollar outfit shipping over what is undoubtedly thousands (if not tens of thousands) of items at a time in bulk containers incurs greater shipping costs for an individual item that weighs a fraction of what a 1Ds with spare batteries, chargers etc etc does?
Even assuming that you...Show more →
A 1D costs less to ship than an 11R reflector for the reasons I explained in huge detail . . . because it comes in a smaller box and has a lower dimensional weight. I can't spend my life explaining this.
Paul, I understand the sentiment on the shipping costs, I really do, but indulge me while I play Devil's Advocate for a moment:
I had a 1Ds that I bought on the buy&sell board here at Fred Miranda shipped over for <$30 only last December, are you telling me that a multi-million dollar outfit shipping over what is undoubtedly thousands (if not tens of thousands) of items at a time in bulk containers incurs greater shipping costs for an individual item that weighs a fraction of what a 1Ds with spare batteries, chargers etc etc does?
Even assuming that you...Show more →
A 1D costs less to ship than an 11R reflector for the reasons I explained in huge detail . . . because it comes in a smaller box and has a lower dimensional weight. I can't spend my life explaining this.
Sep 08, 2010 at 01:30 PM
p.6 #10Vagabond Mini Lithium
RDKirk wrote:
A B400 is a pretty lightweight head--lighter than a lot of power pack heads. Maybe there will someday be a replacement line for the Bees that will incorporate Einstein technology...Smart Bees.
Smart Bees have been on my mind for a long time. The issue is that smart costs money, and if I make them too expensive they lose all their advantage to mainstream users and they all go buy China lights. In this scenario, a smart light becomes a dumb idea.
So I'm letting it gel and will come up with the right balance.
A B400 is a pretty lightweight head--lighter than a lot of power pack heads. Maybe there will someday be a replacement line for the Bees that will incorporate Einstein technology...Smart Bees.
Smart Bees have been on my mind for a long time. The issue is that smart costs money, and if I make them too expensive they lose all their advantage to mainstream users and they all go buy China lights. In this scenario, a smart light becomes a dumb idea.
So I'm letting it gel and will come up with the right balance.
Sep 08, 2010 at 08:29 PM
p.6 #11Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
The issue is that smart costs money, and if I make them too expensive they lose all their advantage to mainstream users and they all go buy China lights. ...
So I'm letting it gel and will come up with the right balance.
Refreshingly direct.
The issue is that smart costs money, and if I make them too expensive they lose all their advantage to mainstream users and they all go buy China lights. ...
So I'm letting it gel and will come up with the right balance.
Refreshingly direct.
Sep 09, 2010 at 06:52 AM
p.6 #12Vagabond Mini Lithium
Just posted at http://www.alienbees.com/vmini.html
Pix, specs, prices and everything about Vagabond Mini Lithium.
Also a lot of technical discussion about Lithium VS SLA and info about pure sine inverters and current limiting and test results,
Pix, specs, prices and everything about Vagabond Mini Lithium.
Also a lot of technical discussion about Lithium VS SLA and info about pure sine inverters and current limiting and test results,
Sep 09, 2010 at 03:06 PM
p.6 #13Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
Just posted at http://www.alienbees.com/vmini.html
Pix, specs, prices and everything about Vagabond Mini Lithium.
Also a lot of technical discussion about Lithium VS SLA and info about pure sine inverters and current limiting and test results,
That's great information, thanks. What sockets will the 230V version have? I hope it's not the standard US sockets.
Tobi
Just posted at http://www.alienbees.com/vmini.html
Pix, specs, prices and everything about Vagabond Mini Lithium.
Also a lot of technical discussion about Lithium VS SLA and info about pure sine inverters and current limiting and test results,
That's great information, thanks. What sockets will the 230V version have? I hope it's not the standard US sockets.
Tobi
Sep 09, 2010 at 03:13 PM
p.6 #14Vagabond Mini Lithium
yeah more CAD!...lol I kid...looks to be a winner of a product!!
Sep 09, 2010 at 03:24 PM
p.6 #15Vagabond Mini Lithium
And just how can I publish anything but a CAD picture before I get the actual molded parts? The molds are being made now and first article samples are due in 32 days.
Sep 09, 2010 at 03:55 PM
p.6 #16Vagabond Mini Lithium
Tobi. wrote:
Pix, specs, prices and everything about Vagabond Mini Lithium.
Also a lot of technical discussion about Lithium VS SLA and info about pure sine inverters and current limiting and test results,That's great information, thanks. What sockets will the 230V version have? I hope it's not the standard US sockets.
Tobi
I did tons of research on suitable 230VAC three prong sockets. Most are gigantic and every country has their own standard. I settled on an Australian standard 10A/250V three prong because it's small and I was able to fit two outlets on the front panel.
Fortunately, essentially all studio lights use the international standard IEC inlet. So we are having cord sets made . . . AU plug to IEC socket. This will power pretty much any light world wide. It will be offered as an accessory, in 15' and 4' lengths.
More data:
Some have suggested we should do a dedicated battery flash unit because it's "more efficient" than DC to AC to Monolight. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but my very scientifically conducted tests indicate 69.7% of the battery's capacity is emitted as flash energy in Vagabond Mini Lithium plus AB1600 (510 640WS pops per charge) , VS 44.4% efficiency for Profoto Acute B2 (160 600WS pops per charge) , VS 43.4% efficiency for Elinchrom Ranger Quadra A @400WS (150 pops per charges).
The new Acute B2 Lithium achieves 200 600WS pops per charge for an efficiency of 55.5%.
Data for Acute and Quadra calculated from published specs.
Battery capacity for the three systems are:
Ranger Quadra A = 38.4 watt hours ($200 Adorama)
Acute B2 = 60 watt hours ($272 B&H)
Acute B2 Lithium = 60 watt hours (?)
Vagabond Mini Lithium - 130 watt hours ($89.95 Direct)
Paul Buff wrote
Just posted at http://www.alienbees.com/vmini.htmlPix, specs, prices and everything about Vagabond Mini Lithium.
Also a lot of technical discussion about Lithium VS SLA and info about pure sine inverters and current limiting and test results,
Tobi
I did tons of research on suitable 230VAC three prong sockets. Most are gigantic and every country has their own standard. I settled on an Australian standard 10A/250V three prong because it's small and I was able to fit two outlets on the front panel.
Fortunately, essentially all studio lights use the international standard IEC inlet. So we are having cord sets made . . . AU plug to IEC socket. This will power pretty much any light world wide. It will be offered as an accessory, in 15' and 4' lengths.
More data:
Some have suggested we should do a dedicated battery flash unit because it's "more efficient" than DC to AC to Monolight. Sorry to burst any bubbles, but my very scientifically conducted tests indicate 69.7% of the battery's capacity is emitted as flash energy in Vagabond Mini Lithium plus AB1600 (510 640WS pops per charge) , VS 44.4% efficiency for Profoto Acute B2 (160 600WS pops per charge) , VS 43.4% efficiency for Elinchrom Ranger Quadra A @400WS (150 pops per charges).
The new Acute B2 Lithium achieves 200 600WS pops per charge for an efficiency of 55.5%.
Data for Acute and Quadra calculated from published specs.
Battery capacity for the three systems are:
Ranger Quadra A = 38.4 watt hours ($200 Adorama)
Acute B2 = 60 watt hours ($272 B&H)
Acute B2 Lithium = 60 watt hours (?)
Vagabond Mini Lithium - 130 watt hours ($89.95 Direct)
Sep 09, 2010 at 04:03 PM
Chris Beaumont
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p.6 #17Vagabond Mini Lithium
Cheaper than the Vaga II as well....you've got a sale here (even with the UK cost ;-) )
Sep 09, 2010 at 04:22 PM
p.6 #18Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
I did tons of research on suitable 230VAC three prong sockets. Most are gigantic and every country has their own standard. I settled on an Australian standard 10A/250V three prong because it's small and I was able to fit two outlets on the front panel.
I know this problem quite well. When travelling in europe, for many contries adapters are required.
Fortunately, essentially all studio lights use the international standard IEC inlet. So we are having cord sets made . . . AU plug to IEC socket. This will power pretty much any light world wide. It will be offered as an accessory, in 15' and 4' lengths.
So you're using this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:I_plug.jpg&filetimestamp=20050618114753 plug? I hope it's lawful to use it for this kind of products in europe.
I know it might be too late now, but why didn't you just use a plug like this: http://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=13;PIC=1;WIDTH=300;HEIGHT=300;ARTID=9255 ? It's essentially the reverse of what's used on most monolights and thus normal extension cables that can be bought in any computer store could have been used. Actually I know of quite a few sine inverters that use this plug. Also most UPSs use them as outlet.
Tobi
I did tons of research on suitable 230VAC three prong sockets. Most are gigantic and every country has their own standard. I settled on an Australian standard 10A/250V three prong because it's small and I was able to fit two outlets on the front panel.
I know this problem quite well. When travelling in europe, for many contries adapters are required.
Fortunately, essentially all studio lights use the international standard IEC inlet. So we are having cord sets made . . . AU plug to IEC socket. This will power pretty much any light world wide. It will be offered as an accessory, in 15' and 4' lengths.
So you're using this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:I_plug.jpg&filetimestamp=20050618114753 plug? I hope it's lawful to use it for this kind of products in europe.
I know it might be too late now, but why didn't you just use a plug like this: http://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=13;PIC=1;WIDTH=300;HEIGHT=300;ARTID=9255 ? It's essentially the reverse of what's used on most monolights and thus normal extension cables that can be bought in any computer store could have been used. Actually I know of quite a few sine inverters that use this plug. Also most UPSs use them as outlet.
Tobi
Sep 09, 2010 at 04:23 PM
p.6 #19Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
And just how can I publish anything but a CAD picture before I get the actual molded parts? The molds are being made now and first article samples are due in 32 days.
How did you keep this so secretive!! No one posted anything on this portable solution until a couple of days ago!!
Can't wait!
And just how can I publish anything but a CAD picture before I get the actual molded parts? The molds are being made now and first article samples are due in 32 days.
How did you keep this so secretive!! No one posted anything on this portable solution until a couple of days ago!!
Can't wait!
Sep 09, 2010 at 04:59 PM
p.6 #20Vagabond Mini Lithium
Looks good. I'll keep a couple VBIIs and add a couple VBLs.
Sep 09, 2010 at 07:28 PM