Archive 2010 · Vagabond Mini Lithium
p.5 #1Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
It would do more than just destroy the Q-flash and the quadra market: it would force those retailers to lower their prices to remain competitive. HOWEVER, there are tons of loyal brand folllowers so they won't not feel an immediate hit.
another factor is if paul keeps backordering his product line, than customers who need the strobes right away will seek products elsewhere. I've seen numerous posts where many other photographers have gone to another system because of the huge backorder list.My goal is not to destroy anyone or to dominate the market. All I try to do is to create innovative and useful products, and bring them to the user at minimum cost and maximum service and humanity. Because our business model eliminates (in the USA) all middlemen that gives us a huge price advantage. But this require a high level of customer trust, and this takes years to establish.
This, in some eyes, leads to the belief we make "Cheap products". Simply not true. For example, Einstein costs us about $300 to build. If we followed the norms of...Show more →
Can't wait for the information!!
c2thew wrote
"As for a smaller light with built in battery, aw come on Paul. You'll destroy Q-flash's business doing that!"It would do more than just destroy the Q-flash and the quadra market: it would force those retailers to lower their prices to remain competitive. HOWEVER, there are tons of loyal brand folllowers so they won't not feel an immediate hit.
another factor is if paul keeps backordering his product line, than customers who need the strobes right away will seek products elsewhere. I've seen numerous posts where many other photographers have gone to another system because of the huge backorder list.
This, in some eyes, leads to the belief we make "Cheap products". Simply not true. For example, Einstein costs us about $300 to build. If we followed the norms of...Show more →
Can't wait for the information!!
Sep 06, 2010 at 04:32 PM
p.5 #2Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
If I'm open and honest I open up myself up lot of negative stuff. Should clam up I guess like others. Vagabond 2 has been extremely well used and beat to death by thousands of users.Many many positive reviews on all forums. But we have had 3-5% field failures and are constantly trying to get the vendor to diagnose and locate the source of failures.
It depends on your intended use. Vagabond Mini Lithium is expected to have an excellent reliability record and offers a lot of advantages. But some disadvantages in recycle time if you are running big power...Show more →
Thank you for the quick response. I am very proud to be a purchaser of Paul C Buff products (AB lights, cyber syncs, going to buy the beauty dish soon, just picked up grids so on so forth).
I intend to run 1-2 AB800-1600's (either or).
Thank you.
If I'm open and honest I open up myself up lot of negative stuff. Should clam up I guess like others. Vagabond 2 has been extremely well used and beat to death by thousands of users.Many many positive reviews on all forums. But we have had 3-5% field failures and are constantly trying to get the vendor to diagnose and locate the source of failures.
It depends on your intended use. Vagabond Mini Lithium is expected to have an excellent reliability record and offers a lot of advantages. But some disadvantages in recycle time if you are running big power...Show more →
Thank you for the quick response. I am very proud to be a purchaser of Paul C Buff products (AB lights, cyber syncs, going to buy the beauty dish soon, just picked up grids so on so forth).
I intend to run 1-2 AB800-1600's (either or).
Thank you.
Sep 06, 2010 at 05:55 PM
p.5 #3Vagabond Mini Lithium
Can it support a WL3200 as well? I know that's a 7lb strobe, but I'm looking at the overall watts/lb of the system more than the price point.
Even at a significantly lower price point, the fact that the Elinchrom Ranger Quadras can utilize Bogen Nano stands, Monopods and VAMLs make it a much lighter kit. A 3lb monolight requires a bit more of a stand to support it and doesn't allow for as mobile of a setup. The whole VML battery + strobe might be less than 6lbs, but if you factor in the weight of a monopod or lightweight stand that can hold a 9 ounce strobe vs. a middle weight stand that can support a 3lb strobe it's pretty significant.
Ranger Quadra + stands = 400WS for ~7-8lbs
VML + AB1600 + stand to hold 3lb strobe (LS3050 = 4lbs) = 640ws / ~10lbs
WL3200 + VML + stand = ~15lbs
Ranger RX 13-17lbs for battery (depending on model) + 4.8lbs for head + stand = 21 to 28lbs
The WL3200, if supported completely kicks the snot out of an equivalent Ranger RX or 7B setup in the watt-seconds/pound category for a thoroughly sun-nuking 1320WS strobe.
Even at a significantly lower price point, the fact that the Elinchrom Ranger Quadras can utilize Bogen Nano stands, Monopods and VAMLs make it a much lighter kit. A 3lb monolight requires a bit more of a stand to support it and doesn't allow for as mobile of a setup. The whole VML battery + strobe might be less than 6lbs, but if you factor in the weight of a monopod or lightweight stand that can hold a 9 ounce strobe vs. a middle weight stand that can support a 3lb strobe it's pretty significant.
Ranger Quadra + stands = 400WS for ~7-8lbs
VML + AB1600 + stand to hold 3lb strobe (LS3050 = 4lbs) = 640ws / ~10lbs
WL3200 + VML + stand = ~15lbs
Ranger RX 13-17lbs for battery (depending on model) + 4.8lbs for head + stand = 21 to 28lbs
The WL3200, if supported completely kicks the snot out of an equivalent Ranger RX or 7B setup in the watt-seconds/pound category for a thoroughly sun-nuking 1320WS strobe.
Sep 06, 2010 at 10:54 PM
p.5 #4Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul, i wish you would have come to my business school for a lecture on real-life managers who discuss the business models and the responsibility of keeping jobs in the country. We had a few guest speakers come into our class to discuss their business strategies and some of the conflicts that they had encountered along the way either within the business and external factors. At the end of class we came up with potential solutions to improve the business model based upon our limited knowledge (school + personal knowledge) of how we would handle the situation.
Your products are solid, and the recent innovations have challenged the studio lighting industry. With over 40 million digital cameras sold by Canon alone, there's so much profits to be made.
Your products are solid, and the recent innovations have challenged the studio lighting industry. With over 40 million digital cameras sold by Canon alone, there's so much profits to be made.
Sep 07, 2010 at 12:17 AM
p.5 #5Vagabond Mini Lithium
Stephen W wrote:
Can it support a WL3200 as well? I know that's a 7lb strobe, but I'm looking at the overall watts/lb of the system more than the price point.
Even at a significantly lower price point, the fact that the Elinchrom Ranger Quadras can utilize Bogen Nano stands, Monopods and VAMLs make it a much lighter kit. A 3lb monolight requires a bit more of a stand to support it and doesn't allow for as mobile of a setup. The whole VML battery + strobe might be less than 6lbs, but if you factor in the weight of a monopod or...Show more →
People keep mis-estimating the Quadra weight. I think you will find it is closer to 11lbs when you add the 3 /1/2 battery and cables and light weight stand. They keep stating the pack as 3lbs, but this is without the lead anchor battery.
Vag Mini will cycle X3200 very nicely . . . it draws the same current as AB1600 so should cycle to full 1320WS in six seconds and give you about 250 full power shits per charge. Drop it to 1/4 power and it should cycle in 1.5 seconds with very short flash duration.
Wait til you see the battery specs and power transfer efficacy for Mini VS Quadra and Profoto . . . you'll be shocked . . . even I was. It will be up on our site late this week.
Can it support a WL3200 as well? I know that's a 7lb strobe, but I'm looking at the overall watts/lb of the system more than the price point.
Even at a significantly lower price point, the fact that the Elinchrom Ranger Quadras can utilize Bogen Nano stands, Monopods and VAMLs make it a much lighter kit. A 3lb monolight requires a bit more of a stand to support it and doesn't allow for as mobile of a setup. The whole VML battery + strobe might be less than 6lbs, but if you factor in the weight of a monopod or...Show more →
People keep mis-estimating the Quadra weight. I think you will find it is closer to 11lbs when you add the 3 /1/2 battery and cables and light weight stand. They keep stating the pack as 3lbs, but this is without the lead anchor battery.
Vag Mini will cycle X3200 very nicely . . . it draws the same current as AB1600 so should cycle to full 1320WS in six seconds and give you about 250 full power shits per charge. Drop it to 1/4 power and it should cycle in 1.5 seconds with very short flash duration.
Wait til you see the battery specs and power transfer efficacy for Mini VS Quadra and Profoto . . . you'll be shocked . . . even I was. It will be up on our site late this week.
Sep 07, 2010 at 01:22 AM
p.5 #6Vagabond Mini Lithium
c2thew wrote:
Paul, i wish you would have come to my business school for a lecture on real-life managers who discuss the business models and the responsibility of keeping jobs in the country. We had a few guest speakers come into our class to discuss their business strategies and some of the conflicts that they had encountered along the way either within the business and external factors. At the end of class we came up with potential solutions to improve the business model based upon our limited knowledge (school + personal knowledge) of how we would handle the situation.
Your products are solid,...Show more →
Call me egotistical, but I'm darn glad I never went to marketing school. I personally believe the sort of marketing they teach is a poor model for today's world. There is a sweet spot between Ebay and multi-middlemen old school methods. I would love to lecture young people on this given the time and opportunity. I appreciate your comments a lot. The world has to return to personal responsibility and self motivation if we are going to avoid being ruled by Harvard lawyers and politicians.
Paul, i wish you would have come to my business school for a lecture on real-life managers who discuss the business models and the responsibility of keeping jobs in the country. We had a few guest speakers come into our class to discuss their business strategies and some of the conflicts that they had encountered along the way either within the business and external factors. At the end of class we came up with potential solutions to improve the business model based upon our limited knowledge (school + personal knowledge) of how we would handle the situation.
Your products are solid,...Show more →
Call me egotistical, but I'm darn glad I never went to marketing school. I personally believe the sort of marketing they teach is a poor model for today's world. There is a sweet spot between Ebay and multi-middlemen old school methods. I would love to lecture young people on this given the time and opportunity. I appreciate your comments a lot. The world has to return to personal responsibility and self motivation if we are going to avoid being ruled by Harvard lawyers and politicians.
Sep 07, 2010 at 01:30 AM
Chris Beaumont
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p.5 #7Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
.....give you about 250 full power shits per charge.....
The immature child within me went f'nah f'nah at this one
On topic - I did a wedding on Saturday smack in the middle of the University area of Cambridge (UK) - anyone who knows Cambridge in particular or any ancient English town will know that this means parking at least 1/4-1/2 a mile away from where you actually want to be......I would have given quite a lot of vital body parts for my Vaga II to have weighed 1/4 of what it does that day!!! Really looking forward to this one, even if it will cost 3x more over here *sad face*
.....give you about 250 full power shits per charge.....
The immature child within me went f'nah f'nah at this one
On topic - I did a wedding on Saturday smack in the middle of the University area of Cambridge (UK) - anyone who knows Cambridge in particular or any ancient English town will know that this means parking at least 1/4-1/2 a mile away from where you actually want to be......I would have given quite a lot of vital body parts for my Vaga II to have weighed 1/4 of what it does that day!!! Really looking forward to this one, even if it will cost 3x more over here *sad face*
Sep 07, 2010 at 03:40 AM
p.5 #8Vagabond Mini Lithium
Chris Beaumont wrote:
The immature child within me went f'nah f'nah at this one
ROTFLMAO
Paul Buff wrote
.....give you about 250 full power shits per charge.....ROTFLMAO
Sep 07, 2010 at 04:45 AM
p.5 #9Vagabond Mini Lithium
Any chance of putting a 4-pack of USB ports on that thing to power iPhones/ipads, etc? That would make the MVB a near-essential item to have on a shoot.
Sep 07, 2010 at 05:11 AM
p.5 #10Vagabond Mini Lithium
I've used an X1600, ABR800, AB800 and Ranger Quadra at various strobist meets locally. The Quadra's compares fairly favorable to the AB800, and either myself or my assistant can shoulder it and shoot with it VAML style on a monopod lifted above a subject for 3-4 hours without a problem. I can't imagine the same being said about a monoblock.
The whole system is less than 10lbs for certain, but it's also the shooting style that differs quite a bit since you can remain mobile with the light. You lose flexibility being chained to a stand, but you gain greater consistency shot to shoot. All depends on how you like to shoot.
The Quadra and the VML are really two different animals. Anywhere you can use a strobe, you can use a Quadra. A monobloc weighs 2-3lbs, and can't be as easily VAML'd. If you had a mini-Einstein I'd probably drop a ton of money on a 4 light AB system.
I'm looking forward to the product announcement still! Paul you keep surprising me with new and innovative products at price points that knock the shit out of the competition.
The whole system is less than 10lbs for certain, but it's also the shooting style that differs quite a bit since you can remain mobile with the light. You lose flexibility being chained to a stand, but you gain greater consistency shot to shoot. All depends on how you like to shoot.
The Quadra and the VML are really two different animals. Anywhere you can use a strobe, you can use a Quadra. A monobloc weighs 2-3lbs, and can't be as easily VAML'd. If you had a mini-Einstein I'd probably drop a ton of money on a 4 light AB system.
I'm looking forward to the product announcement still! Paul you keep surprising me with new and innovative products at price points that knock the shit out of the competition.
Sep 07, 2010 at 08:44 AM
p.5 #11Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul, regardless of what a Quadra head weighs, it's light.
I recently sold my Lumedyne and Norman stuff, and I kind of miss it, especially when asking a VAL to help. In many ways, the weight of the head is more important than the weight of the battery when working in the field. I tried one of the Flashpoint AC/DC lights... the battery was fine, but the head was just too big and heavy. The Calumet Genesis seems to be similar. And I've a strong preference to stay within the PCB system of accessories and triggers, etc.
So there's a big hole between my speedlights and Vagabond setup, and not much under $1500 to fill it with. An AB400 at 2.5 lbs is not bad, and should work okay with the VML... but maybe you could just offer a compact lightweight version for portable use. A 5" reflector would be handy for field use, too.
Anyway, lots of ways it could be tackled, but VML reveals a need for something lighter & more compact at the head; hope you can find time to address it.
I recently sold my Lumedyne and Norman stuff, and I kind of miss it, especially when asking a VAL to help. In many ways, the weight of the head is more important than the weight of the battery when working in the field. I tried one of the Flashpoint AC/DC lights... the battery was fine, but the head was just too big and heavy. The Calumet Genesis seems to be similar. And I've a strong preference to stay within the PCB system of accessories and triggers, etc.
So there's a big hole between my speedlights and Vagabond setup, and not much under $1500 to fill it with. An AB400 at 2.5 lbs is not bad, and should work okay with the VML... but maybe you could just offer a compact lightweight version for portable use. A 5" reflector would be handy for field use, too.
Anyway, lots of ways it could be tackled, but VML reveals a need for something lighter & more compact at the head; hope you can find time to address it.
Sep 07, 2010 at 08:53 AM
p.5 #12Vagabond Mini Lithium
Another seldom mentioned option to the Quadra is the old standby Lumedyne. Since we're mostly talking outdoor flash, I'm disregarding the modeling lamps.
The heads are light, power control on pack.
Problems with the comparison…
New Lumedyne (Signature series for max power control) cost the same or more than Quadra, Quadra has more flashes per charge than med battery Lumedyne. If using Skyport, it’s built in on Quadra.
Nice things about Lumedyne…
Can find used stuff, sometimes bargain prices, but don’t see the Signature series very often on used market. I’ve bought kits used and they’ve been fine (including batteries). If you can deal with the 50WS / 100WS / 200WS limits on the basic packs, used ones are generally cheap. Lumedyne clamp for stand holds battery / pack assembly.
I view the Vagabond Mini Lithium as a different product as it powers AC type products as opposed to dedicated heads like the Lumedyne and Quadra.
So if you are looking for small heads, moonlights don’t really help much.
It’s nice we have so many choices.
The heads are light, power control on pack.
Problems with the comparison…
New Lumedyne (Signature series for max power control) cost the same or more than Quadra, Quadra has more flashes per charge than med battery Lumedyne. If using Skyport, it’s built in on Quadra.
Nice things about Lumedyne…
Can find used stuff, sometimes bargain prices, but don’t see the Signature series very often on used market. I’ve bought kits used and they’ve been fine (including batteries). If you can deal with the 50WS / 100WS / 200WS limits on the basic packs, used ones are generally cheap. Lumedyne clamp for stand holds battery / pack assembly.
I view the Vagabond Mini Lithium as a different product as it powers AC type products as opposed to dedicated heads like the Lumedyne and Quadra.
So if you are looking for small heads, moonlights don’t really help much.
It’s nice we have so many choices.
Sep 07, 2010 at 09:20 AM
p.5 #13Vagabond Mini Lithium
Robb Mann wrote:
Any chance of putting a 4-pack of USB ports on that thing to power iPhones/ipads, etc? That would make the MVB a near-essential item to have on a shoot.
-1
I see where your going w/ these... but no dude. Keeping things simple is the best thing to do...
Any chance of putting a 4-pack of USB ports on that thing to power iPhones/ipads, etc? That would make the MVB a near-essential item to have on a shoot.
-1
I see where your going w/ these... but no dude. Keeping things simple is the best thing to do...
Sep 07, 2010 at 03:15 PM
p.5 #14Vagabond Mini Lithium
Chris Beaumont wrote:
The immature child within me went f'nah f'nah at this one
On topic - I did a wedding on Saturday smack in the middle of the University area of Cambridge (UK) - anyone who knows Cambridge in particular or any ancient English town will know that this means parking at least 1/4-1/2 a mile away from where you actually want to be......I would have given quite a lot of vital body parts for my Vaga II to have weighed 1/4 of what it does that day!!! Really looking forward to this one, even if it will cost 3x more...Show more →
Luap C. Freud?
No way 3X cost across the pond. More like 1.5X, a good part of which your government takes.
Paul Buff wrote
.....give you about 250 full power shits per charge.....On topic - I did a wedding on Saturday smack in the middle of the University area of Cambridge (UK) - anyone who knows Cambridge in particular or any ancient English town will know that this means parking at least 1/4-1/2 a mile away from where you actually want to be......I would have given quite a lot of vital body parts for my Vaga II to have weighed 1/4 of what it does that day!!! Really looking forward to this one, even if it will cost 3x more...Show more →
Luap C. Freud?
No way 3X cost across the pond. More like 1.5X, a good part of which your government takes.
Sep 07, 2010 at 04:15 PM
p.5 #15Vagabond Mini Lithium
So one of these packs hooked to a powerful Einstein with the newly developed PCB/PocketWizard pluged into it will allow me to trigger it all in full TTL with my existing TT5, is that correct Paul?
If so a compact, portable, powerful, full TTL light may truly change the look of location photography forever.
If so a compact, portable, powerful, full TTL light may truly change the look of location photography forever.
Sep 07, 2010 at 04:24 PM
Chris Beaumont
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p.5 #16Vagabond Mini Lithium
Paul Buff wrote:
No way 3X cost across the pond. More like 1.5X, a good part of which your government takes.
On the more expensive stuff you're mostly right, the Vagabond II is almost exactly 1.5x the price, which is totally fair enough given that I think by the time you've done import duty and VAT that's 40+%.
It's the little things that rankle slightly, for example -
11" LTR :
US price : $29.95
UK price : £59.93, which is $91.96 at current exchange rates, over 3 times the price....
I know that PCB Europe isn't directly under your control and is being run by a 3rd party, but seriously?? What the flip??
Also, I don't want to be the teacher's pet snitch, but it's also still ridiculously hard to get a reply from them too, I'm desperately trying to give them (and therefore presumably you) money for a White Lightening X3200, but 1 phone call to someone who said I'd need to e-mail the person who deals with that, 2 e-mails and 2 chases over a 3 week period and I still can't get an answer as to whether they can source it for me and at what price.
As the CEO of a company (rightly) famed for their customer service, I figured you might like to know
No way 3X cost across the pond. More like 1.5X, a good part of which your government takes.
On the more expensive stuff you're mostly right, the Vagabond II is almost exactly 1.5x the price, which is totally fair enough given that I think by the time you've done import duty and VAT that's 40+%.
It's the little things that rankle slightly, for example -
11" LTR :
US price : $29.95
UK price : £59.93, which is $91.96 at current exchange rates, over 3 times the price....
I know that PCB Europe isn't directly under your control and is being run by a 3rd party, but seriously?? What the flip??
Also, I don't want to be the teacher's pet snitch, but it's also still ridiculously hard to get a reply from them too, I'm desperately trying to give them (and therefore presumably you) money for a White Lightening X3200, but 1 phone call to someone who said I'd need to e-mail the person who deals with that, 2 e-mails and 2 chases over a 3 week period and I still can't get an answer as to whether they can source it for me and at what price.
As the CEO of a company (rightly) famed for their customer service, I figured you might like to know
Sep 07, 2010 at 04:41 PM
p.5 #17Vagabond Mini Lithium
RustyBug wrote:
BTW ... Paul, make me a sweet little DC monolight that I can backpack with and uses the same modifiers as the AB's for system compatibility.
Paul Buff wrote:
We are in the beginning stages of working on exactly that. But it will take time. We are investigating using a power tool lithium battery that forms a part of the unit, so no back pack needed.
Suh-Weeeeet !!!
I assume the VBM is what you were talking about ... or do you have something else 'up your sleeve'? Any idea what the time line is for taking advance orders and/or delivery?
I've been trying find a 'system' to start building toward ... sounds like the VBM will be the missing link that bridges the 'system' gap between portable and studio.
BTW ... Paul, make me a sweet little DC monolight that I can backpack with and uses the same modifiers as the AB's for system compatibility.
Paul Buff wrote:
We are in the beginning stages of working on exactly that. But it will take time. We are investigating using a power tool lithium battery that forms a part of the unit, so no back pack needed.
Suh-Weeeeet !!!
I assume the VBM is what you were talking about ... or do you have something else 'up your sleeve'? Any idea what the time line is for taking advance orders and/or delivery?
I've been trying find a 'system' to start building toward ... sounds like the VBM will be the missing link that bridges the 'system' gap between portable and studio.
Sep 07, 2010 at 05:37 PM
p.5 #18Vagabond Mini Lithium
Zeus being discontinued.
Maybe PCB can launch a Mini-Zeus to replace it... Lightweight head about 1.5 pounds w/o cord, 4 pound pack using Einstein like electronics with power up to 1250 WS. Add a VML and you're good for light on a stick.
Okay, it may not be possible, we can always hope.
Maybe PCB can launch a Mini-Zeus to replace it... Lightweight head about 1.5 pounds w/o cord, 4 pound pack using Einstein like electronics with power up to 1250 WS. Add a VML and you're good for light on a stick.
Okay, it may not be possible, we can always hope.
Sep 07, 2010 at 07:43 PM
p.5 #19Vagabond Mini Lithium
MNPNW wrote:
Zeus being discontinued.
Maybe PCB can launch a Mini-Zeus to replace it... Lightweight head about 1.5 pounds w/o cord, 4 pound pack using Einstein like electronics with power up to 1250 WS. Add a VML and you're good for light on a stick.
Okay, it may not be possible, we can always hope.
where did he say the Zeus was being discontinued??
Zeus being discontinued.
Maybe PCB can launch a Mini-Zeus to replace it... Lightweight head about 1.5 pounds w/o cord, 4 pound pack using Einstein like electronics with power up to 1250 WS. Add a VML and you're good for light on a stick.
Okay, it may not be possible, we can always hope.
where did he say the Zeus was being discontinued??
Sep 07, 2010 at 08:20 PM
p.5 #20Vagabond Mini Lithium
Chris Beaumont wrote:
On the more expensive stuff you're mostly right, the Vagabond II is almost exactly 1.5x the price, which is totally fair enough given that I think by the time you've done import duty and VAT that's 40+%.
It's the little things that rankle slightly, for example -
11" LTR :
US price : $29.95
UK price : £59.93, which is $91.96 at current exchange rates, over 3 times the price....
I know that PCB Europe isn't directly under your control and is being run by a 3rd party, but seriously?? What the flip??
Also, I don't want to be the teacher's pet snitch, but it's...Show more →
What this shows is a lack of understanding of global economics and business. For years and years, international customers bitched and bitched about how horribly we treated them when they had to pay the every growing air shipping costs and then the VAT taxes, duties, brokerage fees etc, while all the time, paying still higher prices for equivalent products that came from within their own region. So we finally had enough and simply stopped this sort of shipping entirely.
We decided on providing local service and repair presence, at the lowest achievable customer cost via PCB UK. Because the volume does not yet allow any savings by shipping by ocean container, and because this method takes up to seven weeks, shipping to UK and AU is via consolidated air freight . . . cheaper than UPS/FEDEX package service, but more than ocean freight.
Now here's the part people don't understand:
All shippers charge by "dimensional weight". What this means is that a box that measures 12" x 12" x 12" with a $3 pillow in it costs the same amount to ship as the same box if full of Pocket Wizards. Now let's say this box holds 10 Pocket Wizards with a price of, say $2000 US, and the shipping cost of this box is, say $25US. It doesn't take rocket science to see the shipping cost VS product value for the PW box raises the imported cost by 1.25% but that it raises the cost of the pillow by 833%.
Let me break it down to this: The shipping cost VS product cost of an inexpensive product in a great big box is much higher than that of an expensive product in a small box.
Let me get back to the $3 pillow. The importer ignores the urge to make a profit on shipping (as does PCB UK, and says's OK, I'm going to mark up this pillow that I bought at a 10% discount (yes, that's all PCB UK gets) by 30% so I can stay in business and provide service. OK, it cost me $2.70 and $25 to get it here. So I'm going to mark the pillow up by 30% to $3.51 ( a whooping profit of $.81, pass on the $25 shipping cost, and sell it for $28.51. The your governments says "Gimme 20% VAT" So you pay $34.21 in USD for the $3 pillow. The importer makes $.81 and your government makes $5.70, an I, the pillow maker (me), make the 10% less than if I had sold it to a US customer.
So you have three choices: Recognize that nobody except your own government is screwing you and pay the price, or don't buy it.
FYI The cost of Einstein via PCB UK, after currency conversion, is about $764 USD . . . 1.53 times the US price, and your government put $130 of the $764 in their pocket.
So what would you like us to do? Give money away to gain your favor, close PCB UK, or continue do the best we can? Or should we publicly imply customers across the pond are whiners who don't understand global economics?
Of course, this explanation, which took an awful lot of my valuable time, will be greeted by the usual suspects as some sort of bias and condemnation of non Americans. But we Americans are pretty used to that sort of sentiment, particularly now that we have a "leader" who shares and encourages this bias and is itching to impose a VAT on our citizens and thereby raise our prices by 20% so we can be brought down. Of course, that will make products from all other countries 20% more expensive here too.
But my genuine sympathies if you are getting this sort of poor service from PCB UK. This has come up before and we continually pass such comments on to them every time we hear something like this. We won't allow it to continue and will suggest they comment directly on that subject here.
No offense intended.
Edited on Sep 07, 2010 at 10:05 PM · View previous versions
Paul Buff wrote
No way 3X cost across the pond. More like 1.5X, a good part of which your government takes.It's the little things that rankle slightly, for example -
11" LTR :
US price : $29.95
UK price : £59.93, which is $91.96 at current exchange rates, over 3 times the price....
I know that PCB Europe isn't directly under your control and is being run by a 3rd party, but seriously?? What the flip??
Also, I don't want to be the teacher's pet snitch, but it's...Show more →
What this shows is a lack of understanding of global economics and business. For years and years, international customers bitched and bitched about how horribly we treated them when they had to pay the every growing air shipping costs and then the VAT taxes, duties, brokerage fees etc, while all the time, paying still higher prices for equivalent products that came from within their own region. So we finally had enough and simply stopped this sort of shipping entirely.
We decided on providing local service and repair presence, at the lowest achievable customer cost via PCB UK. Because the volume does not yet allow any savings by shipping by ocean container, and because this method takes up to seven weeks, shipping to UK and AU is via consolidated air freight . . . cheaper than UPS/FEDEX package service, but more than ocean freight.
Now here's the part people don't understand:
All shippers charge by "dimensional weight". What this means is that a box that measures 12" x 12" x 12" with a $3 pillow in it costs the same amount to ship as the same box if full of Pocket Wizards. Now let's say this box holds 10 Pocket Wizards with a price of, say $2000 US, and the shipping cost of this box is, say $25US. It doesn't take rocket science to see the shipping cost VS product value for the PW box raises the imported cost by 1.25% but that it raises the cost of the pillow by 833%.
Let me break it down to this: The shipping cost VS product cost of an inexpensive product in a great big box is much higher than that of an expensive product in a small box.
Let me get back to the $3 pillow. The importer ignores the urge to make a profit on shipping (as does PCB UK, and says's OK, I'm going to mark up this pillow that I bought at a 10% discount (yes, that's all PCB UK gets) by 30% so I can stay in business and provide service. OK, it cost me $2.70 and $25 to get it here. So I'm going to mark the pillow up by 30% to $3.51 ( a whooping profit of $.81, pass on the $25 shipping cost, and sell it for $28.51. The your governments says "Gimme 20% VAT" So you pay $34.21 in USD for the $3 pillow. The importer makes $.81 and your government makes $5.70, an I, the pillow maker (me), make the 10% less than if I had sold it to a US customer.
So you have three choices: Recognize that nobody except your own government is screwing you and pay the price, or don't buy it.
FYI The cost of Einstein via PCB UK, after currency conversion, is about $764 USD . . . 1.53 times the US price, and your government put $130 of the $764 in their pocket.
So what would you like us to do? Give money away to gain your favor, close PCB UK, or continue do the best we can? Or should we publicly imply customers across the pond are whiners who don't understand global economics?
Of course, this explanation, which took an awful lot of my valuable time, will be greeted by the usual suspects as some sort of bias and condemnation of non Americans. But we Americans are pretty used to that sort of sentiment, particularly now that we have a "leader" who shares and encourages this bias and is itching to impose a VAT on our citizens and thereby raise our prices by 20% so we can be brought down. Of course, that will make products from all other countries 20% more expensive here too.
But my genuine sympathies if you are getting this sort of poor service from PCB UK. This has come up before and we continually pass such comments on to them every time we hear something like this. We won't allow it to continue and will suggest they comment directly on that subject here.
No offense intended.
Edited on Sep 07, 2010 at 10:05 PM · View previous versions
Sep 07, 2010 at 09:41 PM