You are allowed one larger lithium ion battery installed in a device, plus up to 2 spare larger lithium ion batteries. These are in addition to any smaller lithium ion batteries. For smaller lithium ion batteries, just follow the Basic rules.
Lithium ion batteries rated over 300 watt-hours (25 g ELC) are forbidden.
"Larger" lithium ion batteries are rated between 100 and 300 watt-hours (8-25 g equivalent lithium content, or ELC).
Since the Mini is 130 Wh, it will fall under the 'larger' battery classification, you can travel with it. Since it will be packed in a container with an inverter, I would expect that to be considered 'installed in a device' and can be packed in checked baggage, but there is still the problem of only being allowed one 'device' and two 'spares.'
In this respect at least, the SLA battery in a system such as the Quadra Ranger doesn't seem to bump into these issues. I traveled with four of the SLAs in a Pelican case as checked baggage and didn't have any problems (the case was inspected several times). This might be a reason Elinchrom decided to stick with old tech, but only a guess....Show more →
Yep. The rules seem pretty straightforward, but there is no telling how they will be enforced.
I believe this is fairly academic unless absolute head weight is the prime consideration. Finding battery weight for Elinchrom is nearly impossible, but the weight of a 12V 3.6AH battery is on the order of 4lbs.
Another note, if you glean through the info . . . the stated 150 shots per charge is at "slow" recycle of 4 seconds to 400WS. In "fast" (admittedly very fast at .73Sec to 400WS) the pops per charge drops to 110.
I didn't start this thread and don't intend to get into the weeds about which is the best system . . . that's entire up to the user's wants and needs.
c2thew wrote:
The mini-einstein is actually a pretty clever idea. It would definitely have a market as well, however it might steal too much of the show from the einstein via price sensitivity.
3 seconds recycle time is pretty decent.
I'd be interested in picking up 1-2 as well.
Were I to do this (don't hold your breath) the battery would be in the head . . . a sub 1lb Lithium can power a 300WS mono light quite nicely.
I have an A-head Ranger-Quadra set. I need an excuse to get an accurate kitchen scale. I'll buy one and weigh the various bits and pieces of the Quadra. 1.43lbs for an A-head seems like a lot, unless you have it attached to the RQ-EL adapter.
Paul Buff wrote:
Were I to do this (don't hold your breath) the battery would be in the head . . . a sub 1lb Lithium can power a 300WS mono light quite nicely.
that would be unreal!
no more need for speedlites!
That sounds more like it. I can't explain why a different "Elinchrom" site would list a different weight than does the above-linked Elinchrom site. B&H must have used the same source, since the difference between 22.9 ounces and 24 ounces is exactly the same as the difference between B&H's listed 8.8 ounces for the head and Elinchrom's 9.9 ounces in the specs I quoted.
Anyway, 24 ounces is about 680 grams, and if you subtract 400 grams for the cable, that leaves 280 grams for the head alone -- almost exactly the 281 grams (9.9 ounces) listed, so those figure gibe with one another.
This new power pack is in fact revolutionary. Combined with and Einstein and some lightweight compact lightstands a pair of these would be truly backpackable. This opens up some opportunities for adventure photographers like me. I was thinking I would miss the weight of my Vagbonds at the location since I use them as weights, but I'm thinking I could bring some empty bags and stuff them full of either dirt or packed snow and use that for lightstand weights. I once mounted an AB1600 on a wooden bar along with my D300 and slung a Vagabond 1 on my shoulder. Made for a very potent walk around flash system. The new battery would make this even easier!
Mardel wrote:
but but but.. every photog needs no more extension cords everywhere from a V2. Plus its good to have two for backup and a V2 in the trunk. Moreover, this could be easier to fly with.
That was why I decided to build smaller packs - no more running cables all over the place, one pack for each light, and if I'm only shooting with one light, I'm only carrying a 3lb battery pack.
I need to ask this, because I've been close to making the jump on a Vagabond II.
Field failures? Is this piece reliable enough for me to only own one? I know, I know I have back up lenses and cameras and batteries and flashes, why not 2 vagabonds.
Should I wait for the new product, or should I just buy a V II?
If I'm open and honest I open up myself up lot of negative stuff. Should clam up I guess like others. Vagabond 2 has been extremely well used and beat to death by thousands of users.Many many positive reviews on all forums. But we have had 3-5% field failures and are constantly trying to get the vendor to diagnose and locate the source of failures.
It depends on your intended use. Vagabond Mini Lithium is expected to have an excellent reliability record and offers a lot of advantages. But some disadvantages in recycle time if you are running big power packs or many monolights at high power. Many potential customer intend to use a Mini per light for maximum flexibility, recycle times and redundancy.
That sounds more like it. I can't explain why a different "Elinchrom" site would list a different weight than does the above-linked Elinchrom site. B&H must have used the same source, since the difference between 22.9 ounces and 24 ounces is exactly the same as the difference between B&H's listed 8.8 ounces for the head and Elinchrom's 9.9 ounces in the specs I quoted.
Anyway, 24 ounces is about 680 grams, and if you subtract 400 grams for the cable, that leaves 280 grams for the head alone -- almost exactly the 281 grams (9.9 ounces) listed, so those figure gibe with one another....Show more →
I think the difference is whether you include the cable and connector or not. Kind of hard to use the head without it them.
Paul Buff wrote:
...I think the difference is whether you include the cable and connector or not. Kind of hard to use the head without it them.
As long as you use the same setup -- whether with or without connectors -- when comparing the specs given by different sources then it's all good; but if you take one vendor's spec without and another vendor's with, and then wonder at the "huge difference in specs," it's because you're comparing apples with oranges.
Paul Buff wrote:
It depends on your intended use. Vagabond Mini Lithium is expected to have an excellent reliability record and offers a lot of advantages. But some disadvantages in recycle time if you are running big power packs or many monolights at high power. Many potential customer intend to use a Mini per light for maximum flexibility, recycle times and redundancy.
I think that if someone wanted to run multiple lights off one power pack, the Vagabond II is the obvious way to go. The small lithium clamp-on is perfect for those who like to shoot and scoot, with one battery per light. This would end up with a multiple light system that cost a bit more, but it would be very easy to move the lights around. It would be considerably more portable. It would also open up the possibility of mounting an Alien Bee or Einstein to a flash bracket with a camera and have a helluva walk around flash! For someone like me who likes to put lights about 30 yards apart, having such a lightweight battery makes things easier to carry around. As a plus, I've found that lithium batteries don't seem to be as sensitive to cold. I'm talking about real cold here, such as 40 below zero. I'm currently using five WL X3200 monolights each with a Vagabond 1 pack. I'm seriously considering replacing those with five Einstein and five of the new batteries. I could make up the light output difference by switching to the newer 8.5" and 11" LRT reflectors. The space required to stow all that would be smaller too. In terms of space, weight, light output, and cost this is becomes tremendously efficient!
As for a smaller light with built in battery, aw come on Paul. You'll destroy Q-flash's business doing that! Something I've been thinking about is that as camera ISO goes higher & higher, that means you can get by with less and less light output. I think I could light up some pretty big stuff with a backpack full of 300ws lights and a camera that shoots clean ISO 3200. Such a lighting system would be extremely portable. I now take 5-8 Nikon SB-28 flash into the woods with me. That kind of light would appeal to skateboard and snow board shooters, adventure photographers, maybe wedding photographers, and those now using SB-28 type flash but want more power and reflector choices. If priced correctly, the market could be large. The Q-Flash appeal to me, but at nearly $1,000 each? No way.
"As for a smaller light with built in battery, aw come on Paul. You'll destroy Q-flash's business doing that!"
It would do more than just destroy the Q-flash and the quadra market: it would force those retailers to lower their prices to remain competitive. HOWEVER, there are tons of loyal brand folllowers so they won't not feel an immediate hit.
another factor is if paul keeps backordering his product line, than customers who need the strobes right away will seek products elsewhere. I've seen numerous posts where many other photographers have gone to another system because of the huge backorder list.
Paul Buff wrote:
Were I to do this (don't hold your breath) the battery would be in the head . . . a sub 1lb Lithium can power a 300WS mono light quite nicely.
Not holding the breath.... Though I think you could do something like this, and I think the response would be amazing. I'd want the battery in the head BTW..
RobertLynn wrote:
I need to ask this, because I've been close to making the jump on a Vagabond II.
Field failures? Is this piece reliable enough for me to only own one? I know, I know I have back up lenses and cameras and batteries and flashes, why not 2 vagabonds.
Should I wait for the new product, or should I just buy a V II?
I sent my VII inverter to PCB as it suddenly blew fuses. I received a new inverter via UPS Ground in a few weeks (since I am West coast, UPS Ground take quite a while). Replaced no charge.
I think the advantages of the VII outweigh potential "field failures." Best to have a spare or BU for everything, and VII has been pretty good for me. My fall-back if VII fails is long extension cords or if really away from AC, speedlights can finish the job (perhaps not as I originally intended, but gets it done.
c2thew wrote:
"As for a smaller light with built in battery, aw come on Paul. You'll destroy Q-flash's business doing that!"
It would do more than just destroy the Q-flash and the quadra market: it would force those retailers to lower their prices to remain competitive. HOWEVER, there are tons of loyal brand folllowers so they won't not feel an immediate hit.
another factor is if paul keeps backordering his product line, than customers who need the strobes right away will seek products elsewhere. I've seen numerous posts where many other photographers have gone to another system because of the huge backorder list.
My goal is not to destroy anyone or to dominate the market. All I try to do is to create innovative and useful products, and bring them to the user at minimum cost and maximum service and humanity. Because our business model eliminates (in the USA) all middlemen that gives us a huge price advantage. But this require a high level of customer trust, and this takes years to establish.
This, in some eyes, leads to the belief we make "Cheap products". Simply not true. For example, Einstein costs us about $300 to build. If we followed the norms of distribution it would sell for about $1000 and still beat most competitors in performance/VS price and customer service.. ABs have a similar cost/price relationship.
More and more, competitors are turning to China and India manufactures to compete. We prefer to keep as many manufacturing jobs in the USA as possible and eliminate salesmen instead of workers.
There are some items that are simply impossible for us to manufacture in the USA . . . fabric products in particular. We would make them here if we possibly could.
Manufacturers that depend on a vast network of dealers, reps, stores and other profit suckers are at a definite disadvantage. They are beginning to fall prey to Ebay sellers who design nothing and provide no service, relying on buying the cheapest possible stuff from China and dumping it on America and the world.
We consider our methods to be the future, and our position in the industry proves this out. But it is almost impossible for manufacturers with complex established distribution models to switch to a direct-to-customer model as this takes years of building customer trust and to completely revamp customer service, shipping, stocking, order taking etc. Very difficult for an entrenched corporation. But it is also difficult for us to distribute outside of North America . . . this does involve middlemen, though we try to minimize them. Yet international customer scream and yell that they are being ripped of because our product costs them more than it does in North America.
Me? Luap be nimble, Luap be quick, Luap jump over the candlestick. Do I make mistakes and miscalculate schedules sometimes? Of course. But if and when I do, I don't just pass it on to customers . . . I live by the Golden Rule and always do me absolute best in serving my customers and employees and the industry. Copy catting is easy . . . innovating isn't.
As for Vagabond Mini Lithium I think you will see it on schedule and as advertised. I have about $1,000,000 invested in it. Please check our website late next week for mounds of information, prices and projected shipping schedule.
Awesome Paul, great product designs. After you get this going it would be nice to have a 580EX II alternative. I have five that I use completely manually using cybersync for the triggering. It would be nice to have twice the power in a similar sized device.
Now if I could just get my Einstein :-/