Sooooo. What's the word on how this new Vagabond Mini Lithium will be received by TSA and airline travel??
I found resources stating that "larger lithium batteries" over 25 g "Equivalent Lithium Content" or ELC are prohibited.... Um, ok. Plain english or bottom line for air travel?
We'll have to sort this out. TSA keeps changing rules and then they don't follow their own rules anyhow. If a laptop is allowed, Vagabond Mini Should be. Same basic battery chemistry. Mini batteries are fully enclosed ,cells don't show, no wires . . . pretty parallel to laptop.
kenyee wrote:
Thanks for the hard numbers Paul.
Looking forward to adding this to my VB2. The VB2's weight is still useful for lightstand ballast. There are times (beach shoots, etc.) when you don't need ballast and the mini-VB will be perfect
Mini includes a removable and substantial stand clamp and shoulder strap. It can clamp to all standard size stand tubing sizes - 5/8" to 1 1/4". Also has 1/4-20 socket for mounting to most any accessory mounting mechanism.
You are allowed one larger lithium ion battery installed in a device, plus up to 2 spare larger lithium ion batteries. These are in addition to any smaller lithium ion batteries. For smaller lithium ion batteries, just follow the Basic rules.
Lithium ion batteries rated over 300 watt-hours (25 g ELC) are forbidden.
"Larger" lithium ion batteries are rated between 100 and 300 watt-hours (8-25 g equivalent lithium content, or ELC).
Since the Mini is 130 Wh, it will fall under the 'larger' battery classification, you can travel with it. Since it will be packed in a container with an inverter, I would expect that to be considered 'installed in a device' and can be packed in checked baggage, but there is still the problem of only being allowed one 'device' and two 'spares.'
In this respect at least, the SLA battery in a system such as the Quadra Ranger doesn't seem to bump into these issues. I traveled with four of the SLAs in a Pelican case as checked baggage and didn't have any problems (the case was inspected several times). This might be a reason Elinchrom decided to stick with old tech, but only a guess.
^ Paul, the Quadras and the Ranger, are very commonly refered to, but as completely different units.
The quadras are the 400ws, the Rangers are the 1100ws, both battery operated, priced a bit differently.
This is just to avoid confusion if you shorten the Quadras to Ranger, everyone who follows Eli, would expect you to be talking about the 1100, regardless of context.
BH names the quadras "Ranger Quadra", so i can see where you take the shortening from, i'm just giving you a heads up from someone who follows Eli light discussions alot. I had to re-read your post a few times to confirm, hopefully its just me but you might want to be stay clear.
Personally, i think Eli made some confusing naming choices but oh well.
I am glad to hear about the mounting accessories, as for those mentioning options to the Quadras, there are quite a few Chinese offers, I'm sure at least some of them would be decent, or would end up being decent after a few more revisions ^ ^
Personally, i would love a Quadra system especially now that theres a ringflash involved, but AC monos are simply more adaptable/cheaper at the moment.
Also, the whole thing about on-location "weight" is somewhat empty to me because you need to sandbag everything anyways, so even if your flash is super light, you'll need to compensate with larger bags.... Clamping the Vagabond has always been a great solution to this.
I think it's pretty clear, based on the specs Paul quoted, that he's referring to the Quadra, and those familiar with the differences between the Quadra and 'regular' Ranger would recognize this. FWIW, on Elinchrom's own site they refer to the Quadra as Ranger Quadra.
(terminology note: Elinchrom considers their line of hybrid battery/pack systems to be called "Rangers". If you say just 'Ranger" you are referring to the older, 1100ws system. Quadra, or "Ranger Quadra" is the smaller, 400ws system. It's the Swiss way of providing clarity)
The weights on the Quadra can be confusing. Elinchcom lists component weight separately, and even the cable is a significant contribution to the total heft. (Heck, I think it even weighs more when filled with electricity.)
So, about 7.3lbs for a quadra pack/battery with one head, call it 8lbs when you add in the standard 8' cable & skyport trigger.
2nd head & 8' cable would add a bit over 1lb more.
One of the big advantages I have in shooting the Quadra on-location is it allows me to go easy on my lightstands. The weight of the Quadra pack/battery is normally enough to balance out my stand. There is a big difference between putting a 3.5lbs monolight on top of an 8' stand vs a 0.7lbs pack-head. Saving a pound in flash gear weight doesn't help me if it means I need to lug 5-10lbs of sandbags with me to counter-balance it.
Robb Mann wrote:
Saving a pound in flash gear weight doesn't help me if it means I need to lug 5-10lbs of sandbags with me to counter-balance it.
For a single lightstand, I usually bungee my camera backpack to it for additional ballast when using a speedlight+umbrella/softbox or it'll blow over. Or you can bring an empty bag and fill it w/ water or rocks to make it heavier. Nice to see the mini-VB has straps to tie it to the stand, but it probably won't be heavy enough unless you use no modifiers (I'd be surprised if the quadra doesn't blow over w/ any modifiers either). Good point about pack/head systems though...
I've shot with a 65" silver PLM on location with a quadra. It was on an 7.75' manfroto stacker stand, fully extended. The only thing holding the stand down was the Quadra pack/head. I shot for two hours with a light breeze, and the stand never moved.
I give credit to two things - 1) the PLM was just a few inches from the center of the lightstand - very little unbalanced weight. 2) for a compact lightstand, the stacker has a massive 38" legbase. - also, the way the stacker's legs are built I get a little 'shelf' where I can stuff the quadra & it counter-balances any modifier I might put on it.
It also helped that the breeze was coming into the shoot so that it was hiting the back of the PLM.
Paul Buff wrote:
We'll have to sort this out. TSA keeps changing rules and then they don't follow their own rules anyhow. If a laptop is allowed, Vagabond Mini Should be. Same basic battery chemistry. Mini batteries are fully enclosed ,cells don't show, no wires . . . pretty parallel to laptop.
Thanks, Paul. So, duct tape Vagabound Mini Lithium to Laptop, and we're good to go!
It looks like from Ron's post (above), it should not be a problem for airline travel.
Paul Buff wrote:
There are some non linear physics involved in operating AC powered flash units from current limited pure sine inverters. Here's how it breaks down:
The faster the AC power line recycle speed of a flash unit, the slower the recycle speed from an inverter. This is because units such as Zeus that have very fast WS/Second recycle on AC lines drop the inverter to much lower voltages than units with slower WS/Second AC cycle rates.
Vagabond Mini Lithium recycles an AB1600 (640WS) to its full 640WS in just under 3 seconds. The nice thing is that the cycle rate remains constant throughout the battery charge so it doesn't slow down as the battery is depleted.
Because Einstein has a bit faster powerline cycle rate (1.7 sec vs 2 sec) it takes slightly longer . . . . about 3.5 seconds . . . to 640WS from Vagabond Mini Lithium. Lowering the power setting of either unit correspondingly shortens the recycle times. So shooting in the 100 to 300WS range cycles quite rapidly. I don't have all the numbers yet, but shooting at 100WS should cycle in well under 1 sec.
We have tested the Mini with two AB1600s at full power and measured 6 seconds to recycle the aggregate 1280WS. For comparison, a 1250WS Zeus takes about 12 seconds. This is not unique to the Mini . . . the same relationship appears with Vagabond 150, Vagabond 2 and, I suspect, with Tronix Explorer or DYI inverters. ...Show more →
Yeah that's what I thought, I just didn't know how to write it to the other poster who did the math..
Paul Buff wrote:
Mini includes a removable and substantial stand clamp and shoulder strap. It can clamp to all standard size stand tubing sizes - 5/8" to 1 1/4". Also has 1/4-20 socket for mounting to most any accessory mounting mechanism.
The clamp thing sounds perfect. So I have one clamped to every stand, then have a little 300ws Einstein - small little thing, like half the size they are now and I'm set. 3 light cordless setup here I come!
Ok so for now you don't have a 300ws mini-Einstein, but I know you'll think of something.
BrianO wrote:
B&H lists the A head as weighing 8.8 ounces (~249.5 grams).
Elinchrom lists the A head as weighing 281 grams (~9.9 ounces).
I guess 1 ounce is "huge" to some people.
I weighed a Quadra A head with standard reflector: 346 g.
Standard 2.5 m cable: ~350 g (don't remember the exact figure, but it was close to the head and reflector weight)
Combined it is close to the weight Paul used for the head in his calculations.
kdphotography wrote:
Thanks, Paul. So, duct tape Vagabound Mini Lithium to Laptop, and we're good to go!
It looks like from Ron's post (above), it should not be a problem for airline travel.
ken
Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem to bring one with you... the question will be traveling with multiple units and how consistent TSA will be in enforcing DOT regulations.
You could probably split some of it between checked and carry-on, since a single large lithium ion battery installed in a device (the Mini) can be in checked baggage.
The mini-einstein is actually a pretty clever idea. It would definitely have a market as well, however it might steal too much of the show from the einstein via price sensitivity.
and I'm set. 3 light cordless setup here I come!