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Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread

  
 
carstenw
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p.74 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Adam, we might refer to different things when we compare to the ZF/ZE50, so don't completely discount the pre-ASPH. Why do you not like it?


Oct 27, 2010 at 02:06 PM
adamdewilde
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p.74 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


kidtexas wrote:
Steve Huff's review has some swirly bokeh. It's not as in your face as a Noctilux or a Summar or a Nikkor 50/1.1 (I think that's the one), but it pops up in some shots that I've seen.

The funny thing is, I just went through a quick flip through about 500 pre-ASPH images in the M-mount group on flickr looking for 'character' shots to link too, and didn't see any. Which is kind of how I feel - I take pictures of things, not of lens characteristics. Though I have always like this shot (not mine), and it probably
...Show more

Yeah that's what made me want a pre-asph in the first place. The shots where he's pretending to scratch the cats, while he's really just pinning them down. They're really nice. He also has one where he was reviewing the M9 and he shot his cat and it was all glowy because of the light shining through his doorway.

But if someone says closeup it's about as sharp as the 50 1.4ze then I'd want to stay away from it, or sacrifice the character for a sharper lens.



Oct 27, 2010 at 02:07 PM
kidtexas
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p.74 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


I'd be surprised if you found a lens that is super sharp wide open and up close, yet still has tons of swirly bokeh.

Have you looked at some Noctilux images wide open on digital? A nice haze going on...

Get a 50 ASPH or a ZM 50/2, and then pick up an old 50 Summar.



Oct 27, 2010 at 02:21 PM
adamdewilde
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p.74 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


carstenw wrote:
Adam, we might refer to different things when we compare to the ZF/ZE50, so don't completely discount the pre-ASPH. Why do you not like it?



I like shooting portraits at close to minimum focusing distances. The 50 1.4ZE is really poor at it. I always reach for my 50 MP ZE in that situation because I love the pop and the sharpness wide open. I can't stand unsharp lenses.
The 50 1.4 ZE has it's place in my bag, I'd use it to shoot street scenes at 10ft distances. Although the MP ZE is better at that as well, I like the 1.4 for it's softer more neutral effect. So for the M9 since it would be my only lens for a while, at least my only 50, I'd want it sharp wide open.

BTW, I like the funny looking square hood with rounded edges.

Price wise, I guess supply and demand, the M9 made me dream of a Noctilux and dashed my dreams of owning one at the same time.



Oct 27, 2010 at 02:23 PM
adamdewilde
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p.74 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Yeah, I'm liking the ZM, but at f/2 it's not gonna cut it.. I'd rather just keep the Cron.
The ASPH is the likely lens, but I can't find it anywhere currently.



Oct 27, 2010 at 02:26 PM
carstenw
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p.74 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


If you want a sharp-wide-open 50, the Lux ASPH is a better bet, although it is also much more expensive, of course. The 50 Lux pre-ASPH is a very good lens, one of the best 50s there are, but clearly less good than the ASPH.


Oct 27, 2010 at 04:53 PM
charles.K
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p.74 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Luka, great shots!!! Congratulations on the ZM 25 and 50 Sonnar. Love your shots with the Sonnar, they have a more classical look to them. Almost like the 35/1.4

If you find it easy to compensate for the optimization at f/2.8, I would run with it. I do know that it can be easily adjusted to where you like, when I was speaking to the lens technicians. My understanding if it is accurately adjusted at f/1.5, the increased DOF at f/2.8 and above will compensate for the shift.

It is important, the camera must be accurately calibrated and tightly toleranced and then the lenses can be calibrated on their own, so there is no down time with the M9 travelling with the lens.

My recent experiences are if you are questioning the ability to focus any lens accurately on the M9, run some quick tests to confirm and have the lens checked out by lab. Having bought the majority second hand, most of the lenses now have been carefully recalibrated, with my input as where I need the most accuracy and style of shots. It really is not costly, and saves so much frustration when you are second guessing your ability to focus.

The main two lenses that needed to be calibrated carefully were the 50 Summilux Asph and the 90 Summicron AA. The 50 Lux initially focused perfectly at MFD to about 4 metres, and then at about 20 metres it was way off. This lens was sent back to Germany, 3 weeks later, fixed at no cost it is brilliant. I never take the lens off now.
The 90 AA, was perfect at MFD, but would back focus about 10 cms at 3 - 4 metres, but it was not consistent. According to the lab, there was not enough cam height for the focusing mechanism to be accurately repeatable and was fixed easily and very quick turnaround.

Adam, having followed your journey with the ZE 50MP and 50/1.4 Planar, and your undeniable preference for the 50MP, I would keep with the 50 Summilux Asph. Later on may be pick an older second hand pre asph, for the classical look. As kidtexas, suggested the ZM 50/2 is an great choice as is the ZM 50/1.5 Sonnar, while you wait for the 50 Lux Asph.



Oct 27, 2010 at 07:21 PM
denoir
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p.74 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Makten wrote:
Congrats on your new, fantastic gear, denoir! I knew you'd buy an M9 as soon as you mentioned your interest in the camera for the first time.


Thanks! Yes, I suspected it as well once I started thinking about it. To my credit, I held it off for almost a month while thinking about it


I think I can see something interesting here. Your pictures with it are quite different from what you usually show. Isn't it more spontaneousness in them? That's what I felt when I had the M8, spontaneous. It was such a joy to shoot, despite its shortcomings.


That would probably be because I don't know how to use the camera yet But yes, with the 5DII I shoot from a tripod whenever I can so the shots tend to be more carefully crafted, so to say. These are more improvised.

Yes, the M9 is very fun to shoot and I think it has a lot to do with how the camera feels in the hand, the feel/sound of the shutter etc Those may sound like silly things but to me they are important as they determine if I'm likely to use the camera a lot. If I don't find it enjoyable chances are that I won't use it much - regardless of the image quality.


Edit: The canoe shot is fantastic!


Thanks! It's funny that you picked out that one as I actually thought "Ooh, there's a Makten style shot" when I took it.


That Sonnar seems to draw in a fantastic way! What RAW converter are you using? I haven't read every word in the thread, so maybe I've missed it. I think you could get some more "pop" from the 35/2 if cranking the contrast a bit.


Yes, the Sonnar has a very nice rendering style. Of all the M lenses that I've seen samples from it was only the Sonnar and the Noctilux that made me really interested.

I'm using Lightroom, essentially with default settings and with some tweaking on some of the shots. I have yet to create my own profiles.

You are probably right about the 35/2. I think also that the default RAW development settings lead to a lower global contrast than what I'm used to with 5DII RAW files.

rsolti13 wrote:
Luka, great work with the Sonnar. I have heard that it is easiest to get the optimized at 2.8 version and then compensate slightly when using wide open. It seems that being optimized at 1.5 causes the lens to be practically useless between f/2.8- f/8 or so. I agree with Makten...slightly different style in the M9 shots you have posted. The canoe shot is excellent as is the portrait....razor sharp!


Thanks Ryan! The Sonnar isn't ultra-sharp wide open but that's sort of relative. The results from it would have been considered sharp at 100% had the image been taken by a 5DII or D700. On the M9 it is however softer than my other two lenses. At f/4 and beyond it suddenly becomes ultra sharp with modern contrasty rendering. It has quite an interesting Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde routine going on there with the rendering style changing dramatically.

charles.K wrote:
Luka, great shots!!! Congratulations on the ZM 25 and 50 Sonnar. Love your shots with the Sonnar, they have a more classical look to them. Almost like the 35/1.4


Thanks Charles!


It is important, the camera must be accurately calibrated and tightly toleranced and then the lenses can be calibrated on their own, so there is no down time with the M9 travelling with the lens.

My recent experiences are if you are questioning the ability to focus any lens accurately on the M9, run some quick tests to confirm and have the lens checked out by lab. Having bought the majority second hand, most of the lenses now have been carefully recalibrated, with my input as where I need the most accuracy and style of shots. It really is not costly, and
...Show more

I'll have to do some systematic tests to see if it needs to be calibrated or not. My problem is that I don't really have anyone to calibrate it. There used to be a couple of camera shops in Sweden that did it but they have gone belly up. According to the Leica dealer I bought the M9 from there was simply no such service available in Sweden. Leica won't touch Zeiss lenses and Zeiss won't touch an M9. So I would have to find some other camera repair service somewhere else in Europe. This complicates things.

Anyway, on to the 25/2.8: I'm not feeling any love from the lens but to be fair:

a) I'm not used to 25 mm,
b) framing is difficult without an external viewfinder
c) the weather & light were really bad .

The last doesn't matter for narrow DOF shots like with the Sonnar ones but with a wide angle it is essential. I'll try to find some time for a longer photo walk with just the 25/2.8 so that I get to know it. I have been trying to use it as a 21mm and as a 35mm and it really doesn't work as UWA and WA photography are quite different and the 25 is somewhere in-between.




























Oct 27, 2010 at 08:47 PM
jhapeman
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p.74 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


I love that second shot, Luka. And several of these look familiar--that last shot is the Strandvägen, correct? I only spent three days in Stockholm a few years ago, but I walked around a lot and I loved the city.

Jeff



Oct 27, 2010 at 10:22 PM
charles.K
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p.74 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Luka, really nice shots again!
Definitely get the Voigtlander ext finder 21/25. It is cheap, very well made and has the lines for the 25mm, whereas the Leica one does not. I was very reluctant to use one to begin with, but it works really well.



Oct 27, 2010 at 10:30 PM
 


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jhapeman
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p.74 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


kidtexas wrote:
I'd be surprised if you found a lens that is super sharp wide open and up close, yet still has tons of swirly bokeh.

-SNIP-


Probably true, but swirly bokeh is typically caused by field curvature. A lens can be very sharp wide open *at the plane of focus* but still have swirly bokeh due to field curvature. Now, it will only be sharp in the center of the field, and will drop off to the edges, but it can still be very sharp on center.

A pretty good example of this is the new f/0.95 Noctilux. It's got more field curvature than the old f/1 version of the lens, and wide open you can see this as the corners are sharper in the f/1 lens. The f/0.95 can also give some really nice swirly bokeh if that's your thing; however, its deadly sharp on center.


Piano Recital Dress by jhapeman, on Flickr

What the f/1 version adds to the formula is spherical aberration, but that is what adds the "glow", which is really just a slight defocus blur from the aberration. Spherical aberration and a curved field of focus are quite different beasts.

Now that I have both Noctiluxes (Noctiluxi? Noctis? ) in hand, I will try to get some shots that demonstrate this--but at the moment my work schedule is killing me.

Jeff



Oct 27, 2010 at 10:37 PM
h00ligan
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p.74 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Luka, My girlfriend was looking over my shoulder as I was browsing here, and she said the following, for the second time about your photos (the other time was with the x1).

She said "WOW, that looks like I'm looking through a window, how does he do that"

I was stumped and mumbled something about choosing the right light, your great skill, and really good sharpening technique (which I am still struggling with).

The point of this? - even your test shots are great, heh.

@jhapeman - that's a nice shot too.. I am partial to spherical bokeh (being relatively new to this, I think the first time I noticed it was in a Steve Huff review). The sigma 30/1.4 has it a bit, I like it for a cheap lens... but then, cheap and fast don't often mix...and while it's no noctilux, I consider 1.4 to be on the tail end for being labeled 'fast'.

I'm enjoying the conversation!



Oct 27, 2010 at 11:53 PM
jhapeman
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p.74 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


One nice feature of a curved plane of focus in a lens design is that if the lens is also fast, it enhances subject isolation when shot wide open.


Oct 28, 2010 at 12:06 AM
charles.K
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p.74 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Jeff, love the shot of your daughter! You are killing us with envy with the Nocti 0.95


Oct 28, 2010 at 12:27 AM
adamdewilde
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p.74 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


jhapeman wrote:
Probably true, but swirly bokeh is typically caused by field curvature. A lens can be very sharp wide open *at the plane of focus* but still have swirly bokeh due to field curvature. Now, it will only be sharp in the center of the field, and will drop off to the edges, but it can still be very sharp on center.

A pretty good example of this is the new f/0.95 Noctilux. It's got more field curvature than the old f/1 version of the lens, and wide open you can see this as the corners are sharper in the f/1 lens.
...Show more


You don't have to worry about what two noctilux are called.. When you're done playing you can sell me the f/1 for the $1500 that it could be had for back a year or so ago I'll even toss in an extra $500 so you can take your family out to dinner.


Best,
Adam

P.S. Don't slack, I'm looking forward to your reviews



Oct 28, 2010 at 01:14 AM
zombii
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p.74 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Jeff, excellent shot of your daughter. If I had the Noctilux ASPH, I feel sure I'd love it based on what I've seen. I've read criticism of it being too sterile but the images I've seen with it, I've liked.

Luka, many excellent shots. The two I like best are the one in the tunnel and the portrait with the Sonnar. I think that's the first portrait I've seen you post and you did really well with a lens that you had to compensate focus. I also think your ZM 25 shots are very well done. But I have to say, and this isn't a criticism of you, that they demonstrate to me why I'm not a huge Zeiss fan: basically they're too technically perfect. I'm not sure I'd use the word sterile as that implies a judgment that I think is over the top but something is lacking to me. Like everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I know this is what you like and sometimes it works for me too but not all the time or with every lens. My two cents and again, not a personal criticism as you've clearly already got a good grasp of the camera and the lenses you've got. Interestingly enough, I liked the ZM 35 shots better as a whole. Maybe because it's not as perfect. I tended to agree with Charles when he posted shots with his but yours look different. Maybe the two of you just used different PP. Maybe sample variation.

For those wondering about the Nokton 50/1.1, I had one of those and was underwhelmed. The one that Charles has and images from others I've seen looked much better. I wouldn't trade the Noctilux or Summilux for one of them though. Simply not in the same league to me no matter if Sean Reid does give the Nokton the benefit of the doubt.



Oct 28, 2010 at 02:44 AM
charles.K
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p.74 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Rod, some really nice shots! I really like the rendering of #1,2 and 8. I love the dream like quality of the Nocti'

With respect to the ZM 35/2, I agree with you, Rod. Luka shots have excellent rendering and feel, something that was lacking in all of my shots. I have reviewed all of my shots with the ZM 35/2 and tried different PP methods, but definitely different. Based on Luka's shots I would retry another copy of the ZM 35/2, as I really like its qualities.

Edited on Oct 28, 2010 at 06:05 AM · View previous versions



Oct 28, 2010 at 03:08 AM
zombii
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p.74 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks Charles! Interesting about the ZM 35. I guess Zeiss isn't immune from sample variation. I'd read varying opinions about it on other forums too. I'd be curious if yours was an earlier one than Luka's. If he bought his new as I think he did, then it probably was. Wonder if there were any undocumented changes in the later S/N's?


Oct 28, 2010 at 03:13 AM
denoir
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p.74 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


charles.K wrote:
Luka, really nice shots again!
Definitely get the Voigtlander ext finder 21/25. It is cheap, very well made and has the lines for the 25mm, whereas the Leica one does not. I was very reluctant to use one to begin with, but it works really well.


Thanks Charles! I'm however not all that thrilled with the results I got from the 25. Perhaps I was expecting it to be the equal of the 21 Distagon but it's not. It doesn't do that massive DOF thing and you have to stop it down significantly to do adequate hyperfocal stuff. I took some shots this morning that I hope will turn out a bit better as the light was good.

A Voigländer 21/25 external finder is an appealing option - then I could get a 21 Biogon to use as UWA. I am however perhaps more interested in the 18/4 Distagon. But that's another question and I'll pester you guys about it at some later time


jhapeman wrote:
I love that second shot, Luka. And several of these look familiar--that last shot is the Strandvägen, correct? I only spent three days in Stockholm a few years ago, but I walked around a lot and I loved the city.

Jeff


Thanks Jeff! Yes, correct it was shot on Strandvägen.

Nice noctilux shot - I like it. I'm however not crazy about the LoCA in the highlights. I suppose however that an APO design of the nocit would weigh 10 kg and cost $100,000



h00ligan wrote:
Luka, My girlfriend was looking over my shoulder as I was browsing here, and she said the following, for the second time about your photos (the other time was with the x1).

She said "WOW, that looks like I'm looking through a window, how does he do that"

I was stumped and mumbled something about choosing the right light, your great skill, and really good sharpening technique (which I am still struggling with).

The point of this? - even your test shots are great, heh.


Thanks! Lens and focal length help as well.


zombii wrote:
Luka, many excellent shots. The two I like best are the one in the tunnel and the portrait with the Sonnar. I think that's the first portrait I've seen you post and you did really well with a lens that you had to compensate focus. I also think your ZM 25 shots are very well done. But I have to say, and this isn't a criticism of you, that they demonstrate to me why I'm not a huge Zeiss fan: basically they're too technically perfect. I'm not sure I'd use the word sterile as that implies a judgment that I
...Show more

Thanks Rod!

Well, as you say, it comes down to personal preference. To me what is appealing with Zeiss is exactly what h00ligan's girlfirend pointed out - the image looks like you are looking at the real thing rather than a photo of the real thing. It's like a wall of separation has been removed. With Leica or Canon for that matter you don't get the realism. Canon has neutral, bland, non-offensive rendering. Leica on the other hand asserts a certain style which I like on film but not on digital.

Nice captures by the way!


charles.K wrote:
With respect to the ZM 35/2, I agree with you, Rod. Luka shots have excellent rendering and feel, something that was lacking in all of my shots. I have tried to review of my shots with the ZM 35/2 and tried different PP methods, but definitely different. Based on Luka's shot I would retry another copy of the ZM 35/2, as I really like its qualities.


Charles, I think the main difference is the type of shots. I typically use 35 mm for medium distance shots, while yours were long distance shots (the beach photos). The only 35mm that I really like for landscape type photos at infinity is the Zeiss 35/1.4.


Anyway, a couple more Sonnar shots:







B/W version:


























Oct 28, 2010 at 04:42 AM
charles.K
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p.74 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Luka, wow, what great shots!!! I see you have no problems with the street shots



Oct 28, 2010 at 05:00 AM
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