Thank you jairy This is an excellent zeiss lens along with the ZM 25.
Really nice shots PhotoArne. Love the colors in the landscapes!
Joe, Jairy, since spending time with M9, really learning it and understanding it, the 5DII has been used very little. The first criteria for me is that the M9 is FF, as I moved on my 7D for that reason alone. At first, I was uncertain and unsure about the M9, more due to lack technique and knowledge and the lower ISO abilities compared the 5DII. Now understanding the focusing and metering, which has helped my technique overall, I am loving the camera and more importantly the lenses. The lower ISO ceiling has not been an issue, and I love low light photography. Interestingly, as I tend to be able to take shots at about half to a third of the shutter speed than with the 5DII, which negates some the advantage of the higher ISO range of the DSLR. I am still keeping the 5DII, and I will use it, but in reality it will be used very little.
From PP perspective, it has taken a while to appreciate how good the RAW M9 files are. There is so much information, and yes, I do have to have a very good work flow, but the colors, detail and rendering are amazing. Justice cannot be done via a computer monitor on the web There have been 2 occasions where I taken the 5DII out of the bag and that was for macro and horse shots. The M9 suits my philosophy and style of photography, yet for other people only the DSLR will do. The weight, size and obtrusiveness are important factors for me. I have always looked for smaller and more lightweight camera gear, but I then have migrated back to SLR/DSLR's because of IQ.
The important factor, is I am really enjoying the M9 and getting out taking shots where I never would have before, and people around me don't seem to mind
charles.K wrote:
I am still keeping the 5DII, and I will use it, but in reality it will be used very little.
IMO that is really a pity Charles. Although I really like your shots with the M9, I like your 5DII shots (especially with the ones with Zeiss glass) even better. I can't put my finger on where the difference lies but the DSLR is definitely a better performer in terms of color rendering. I think that even the crop CMOS sensor of the 7D has better dynamic range and more nuanced color rendering compared to a CCD sensor. The benefit of no AA filter + CCD on the M9 doesn't really show in web sized images.
Specifically from your images I get the feeling that there is definitely a difference in composition between your 5DII shots and your M9 shots. The 5DII shots look more planned while the M9 shots more improvised. Both have their place of course and I'm glad you are enjoying the M9, but it would be a pity if you gave up on the 5DII.
The important factor, is I am really enjoying the M9 and getting out taking shots where I never would have before, and people around me don't seem to mind
That's interesting. I've found it easier to take street photos with a big camera and lens - from my own perspective. With a big camera and preferably a big white tele people automatically assume that you have a professional reason photographing them. So at least for me it's much less awkward. It's true that they'll spot you from a large distance and that chances of capturing real candids is difficult. At the same time I'm pretty sure that almost every non-photographers think a rangefinder is just another slightly larger P&S camera (like say the Canon G10). And with a traditional street lens (i.e 35mm on FF) you really need to get close and into the action yourself. So it's not really discrete and I think people think it is more weird that some unknown person walks up to them and starts snapping away with something that looks like a consumer P&S to them.
Of course a lot of classic street photography is based on the principle that the photographer melts into the crowd and then at the appropriate moment just conjures up the camera and takes a shot of a significant moment. I personally just don't really fancy doing that type of confrontational photography but I'm at the same time very impressed by those that actually have the stones to do it.
Agreed, denoir, that true "street" isn't my style either--the confrontational aspect does not appeal to me. That is an interesting perspective re: the monster white pro L-series lenses (or similar). I even quoted to a student photog last night at a football game--"just act like you know what you're doing and that you're supposed to be here." Although, I have to say that my M8 and MP both evoke reactions in the general public...conversation starters ("that must be a really OLD camera," etc.).
Thank you Luka! Really appreciate your thoughts
Yes, I will continue using and upgrade the 5DII when the 5DIII comes out. I still have 3 AF lenses, the 85LII, 135L and 70-200/2.8 IS L I. So yes, I will still do action shots, where I don't even think and take the 5DII and L AF lenses, and times only the 5DII and ZE's will do.
Mid October on my next trip to Thailand, I will only take the M9 and 4 lenses. I have often traveled trying to take lighter camera gear, as I get frustrated carrying gear and then taking it to the streets, but then I get disappointed with the IQ. It will be interesting experience, and the type of shots I will be able to capture.
Yes, you are right, the composition is and will be different between the RF and DSLR, and I do need to mindful of it I have simplified my gear, somewhat , and rather spending on the newest must have lens, I am putting towards in time with a mentor/s, and photographic workshops. Some of the workshops do require that I have DSLR anyway!
jairy hunter wrote:
Joe, that 1.5 seems to be supersharp. Not too contrasty.
Jairy, the Nokton 50/1.5 is not a 50 Lux ASPH but is a good value for the $$ .You are right, not very contrasty and you can bump it up in pp. My copy seems to be excellent for B+W but it flares like crazy with a UV/IR if shooting into light. I bought one after reading Sean Reid's reviews. Its sharp if I can get it in focus but sometimes I have difficulty nailing it wide open on the M8.
jairy hunter wrote:
Agreed, denoir, that true "street" isn't my style either--the confrontational aspect does not appeal to me. That is an interesting perspective re: the monster white pro L-series lenses (or similar). I even quoted to a student photog last night at a football game--"just act like you know what you're doing and that you're supposed to be here." Although, I have to say that my M8 and MP both evoke reactions in the general public...conversation starters ("that must be a really OLD camera," etc.).
+1
It is interesting jairy, I have this big fear of approaching people to take photos. Always have! I learning to overcome this, as this is a better technique for portraits in general anyway. If you have a model, the best shots should come from connecting and discussing the shoot and what is visioned. So my thoughts, are why should street people shots be any different. Still learning and will never cease....
The first couple street shots, there is a "huge" fear factor but there is a definite interest in the RF. Not a P&S, nor a DSLR so people are intrigued. Even my usual friends who used of me carrying a DSLR to horse events, they are more relaxed...maybe it is me.
Tobin28 wrote:
Joe88 I feel the same way I have this amazing nikon bag that I have and it seems to stay home all the time. The d700 is so big compared to the m8/m9
Tobin, I've also considered selling my Nikon gear & M8 for a M9 but I think I'll buy more lenses for the M8 first and see if that works. The lenses will hold their value but the M9 depreciation will hurt my wallet (and retirement fund.. ouch!) If the D700 was smaller and lighter, I won't hesitate to use it all the time but its often too heavy to take it out for a casual stroll or street shooting. I guess if you are a pro, then it could also be risky just relying on one M9 alone. you probably need 2 bodies and that is expensive. I would still keep a Nikon or Canon just because of their reliability.
charles.K wrote:
From PP perspective, it has taken a while to appreciate how good the RAW M9 files are. There is so much information, and yes, I do have to have a very good work flow, but the colors, detail and rendering are amazing....
The important factor, is I am really enjoying the M9 and getting out taking shots where I never would have before, and people around me don't seem to mind
Yes, Charles I agree on the RAW files. Even on the M8, its so much nicer to work on the RAW files compared to my Nikon D700 and the M8 conversion to B+W is gorgeous. I was very impressed even with a straight conversion in LR.
And yes, the most important factor is that you enjoy the M9. The best camera is the one you want to carry and use. Keep having fun with it
jairy hunter wrote:
Although, I have to say that my M8 and MP both evoke reactions in the general public...conversation starters ("that must be a really OLD camera," etc.).
Ah yes. I've often thought that cameras and lenses should apart from the standard technical details have a nfph indicator (new friends per hour).
I had the opportunity two months ago to study this. There was a big royal wedding in Stockholm with a procession through the city - lots of people and lots of pro photographers. I thought it would be an interesting opportunity for some street photography. In any case I ended up taking a spot next to a guy with a 300/2.8L and next to him was a guy with a 600/4L. I had a 70-200/II. I stood there for about half an hour and in that time three persons approached me and asked me the typical "Are you a pro?" and when I answer with a negative the even more typical "I bet you can see the hairs of an X at Y distance with that thing!" follows. People always assume that a big lens such as the 70-200 must have a massive focal length..
Anyway, I digress. The guy with the 300/2.8 had five people approaching him during that time while the guy with the 600/4 basically had a queue of people around him. He did not get a moment's peace. I estimate that about 10 people approached him.
So the ratings were:
70-200 f/2.8L IS II -> 3 nfph
300 f/2.8L -> 10 nfph
600 f/4L -> 20 nfph
There is one thing that beats the 600 f/4 though. And that's when you mount a 70-200 on a Gigapan robotic pano head and let it rip. From practical experience I can say that it rates at least 30 nfph!
charles.K wrote:
If you have a model, the best shots should come from connecting and discussing the shoot and what is visioned. So my thoughts, are why should street people shots be any different.
That's an interesting thought but if you look at classic street photography most of it is about capturing candid moments. In the case of Cartier-Bresson it was a passive capture but later photographers developed it into a more conformational form where the photographer plays an active role and provokes an emotional reaction from the subject. Gary Winogrand was a master at this. He would leer at women on the street getting either anger or embarrassment in response:
(Photo by Winogrand)
I can understand the idea. If people know and expect to be photographed they will put up a facade - and show the type of image they want others to see. Emotions etc will be carefully masked. If everything would be just a variation on the formal portrait then photography would have a very skewed perspective on the world and would be very impoverished. At the same time I have a problem with it as a photographer. First of all it is often exploitative. Those that are likely to voluntarily show true emotions in your presence are friends and family but to publicly display photos of very private moments would be a betrayal of trust. And while strangers on the street are in principle fair game, I still feel that one violates their privacy in a way. I know that there can be no expectation of privacy in a public area but still, I feel it is inappropriate to take pictures of people that have not had the chance to decline. I still do it on occasion but I seldom feel too good about it.
So to conclude, I'm a complete hypocrite - I have ethical reservations for myself but I have no problem with - in fact I admire - other photographers that have the stones to rudely photograph anything that moves
Even my usual friends who used of me carrying a DSLR to horse events, they are more relaxed...maybe it is me. D
To me photography isn't really a social thing - more of an anti-social thing actually I love to slowly, using a tripod (preferably without any people nearby) photograph landscapes. I keep a low pace, listen to music and basically just enjoy myself. So I'm actually more attracted to the other end of the spectrum - medium and large format cameras. The trouble is that the existing digital medium format cameras are not all that good and there are no commercially available real large format digital cameras. So FF DSLR is the best I can get at the moment
Nice shots Jairy! I like the shifted perspective of the two first shots.
Luka, love the concept of "nfph" As an engineer myself, I have to take note of some stats in future
I really like the excellent candid street shots, but I much prefer the style of Bruce Percy's that embraces the "emotional intelligence" of people into his shots.
Your amazing photographs really do demonstrate the style that you enjoy and embrace.
Although not the right thread, it is very insightful to share thoughts about our thinking and approach to taking shots. It is this reason alone, that we do select the equipment that best suit our personality and what we are comfortable with, and is the reason why M8/9 X1 RF thread is even alive
My ideal setup would be the D3s sensor and features with the size and weight of the M9. I have tried film medium format cameras before, while traveling and living in Asia, and found them to be very restrictive and did not suit me. Much of the problem then was processing film reliably. My camera of choice then, was the Oly OM-1 for size and weight. My criteria has been having the best IQ, while keeping the size and weight to a minimum.
Luka, like your analogy for nfph. I think in our society big = better most of the time
The great thing about photography is that there is so much subject matter to shoot and while some excel at landscapes (such as you), others excel at street candid or other subjects. One subject matter is not necessarily easier than the other because it always depends on the photographer (artist)'s vision.
The Leica M and other rangefinders are very suited to street photography because the camera as a tool facilitates the process. Its small form factor and the ease to use hyperfocal or zone focusing certainly helps that you only need to point the camera at the subject for a very short time, or sometimes, at zero time when you shoot from the hip I think, to many street photographers, the "fear/confrontational factor" is part of the thrill of it.. trying not to get caught, etc... and there is a very thin/unclear line on what is private and public depending on which country you are at.
To quote Ben Lifson's essay in Garry Winogrand's "The Man In The Crown", Garry said, "Every photo is a contention between form and content; one is always threatening to overwhelm the other". So even Garry acknowledged that its not only about content (emotion, subject matter) but also about forms (art?) I don't think Garry Winogrand was aggressive if you compared him to Bruce Gilden of Magnum pointing his flash in your face in NYC. Not sure if some of you have seen this
It shows. Your excellent portraits are similar in style. I've looked through his website and I would say that what he calls "street photos", well, few others would recognize as such. They are basically formal portraits - neatly arranged, technically superb and very traditional in composition. The subjects have their "I'm being photographed" face on. Typical street photography involves movement and action of subjects not aware that somebody will take their picture. So I think that walking up to people and asking them if it is OK to take a photo falls into a different genre of photography.
It definitely does, although I think it is in stiff competition with lesser cameras there. A P&S that has manual focus can be even smaller. Their small sensor size isn't an issue as for zone focusing you need plenty of DOF anyway. Of course the impact on the subject isn't the only thing. It's important for the photographer to feel comfortable with the camera and an M8/M9 is definitely nicer to operate.
Yes, although I'm not quite sure how you can avoid getting caught with a 35mm lens (on an FF) - I mean you really need to get up close and personal with it.
This is an excellent zeiss lens along with the ZM 25. 
