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Archive 2010 · Branding...

  
 
lisy78
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p.4 #1 · Branding...


VPell wrote:
I still feel that your products and services should be driving your brand, rather than your brand driving your products and services.


It's a two way street. If your goal is to run a successful business then you will have to have the "art" bend a bit to match the goals of the business... and if you want to be a HAPPY business owner you will also be open to flexing your brand a bit to match your preferences in product/service delivery.

Branding can enhance a good product and help it secure a place in the market where it's deserved, however my problem, is with branding that is used to sell an average, or mediocre product (which it can). That seems irresponsible and can give people a skewed view of branding (which happened with me, andI believe happens to a person who overbrands).


Two issues here:

1. Mediocre products should also be sold. There are products at all price points, and all different kind of services... nothing wrong with someone in the middle of the market branding. And it would be normal, expected, and smart for someone who doesn't produce the BEST images in town to brand themselves as the friendliest, easiest to get along photographer, if that is their strength.

2. What you see as mediocre might be indistinguishable to the untrained eye from much of what you think is great. I have a good friend who is an audiophile. He owns a CD player that cost thousands of dollars. Supposedly it's built on three separate chassis in some exotic material, it insulates the mechanical components from the electronics that do the digital processing, and then again separates the analog stuff from the digital. According to him it's the gold standard in CD reproduction. Me... I can't tell the difference, once it's hooked up to the SAME preamp/amp/speakers between his CD Monsterplayer and a $80 Sony Best Buy special.

Thanks for starting a very interesting conversation.



Feb 08, 2010 at 11:14 AM
TRReichman
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p.4 #2 · Branding...


I'm almost scared to post another HUGE WALL OF TEXT (C)

I'll admit up front that some businesses sell a less-than-stellar product through slick marketing. That's not necessarily a great thing. But (!) sometimes that slick marketing and tasty branding actually makes us like and enjoy the product more.

My wife and I are not brand shoppers (yup - cue accusations of being contradictory). I just don't care when it comes to certain things (cars, clothes, etc.). My wife was in need of a purse recently and we were at the store looking for one in the more budget section where she usually buys a purse ($30-75). She just wasn't finding what she wanted and I was helping her look (goodbye MAN CARD) and I looked over the counter at the Coach purses. I saw one that looked like exactly what she wanted at about 6x the cost she was expecting to pay. Its really not much better in construction or quality than the other purses that she has owned at a fraction of the cost. Yet, she feels at this point like she treated herself. She likes this purse more for purely emotional reasons. I'd be willing to bet the next time she buys a purse she buys an "expensive" one instead of buying off the rack. Because we're fortunate, most of the things we buy we do so for emotional reasons. Most of us really don't spend a ton on necessities, we spend our money on things that satisfy us in emotional ways. That's why branding is so important, because people are not buying for functional reasons, they buy because a purchase makes them feel a certain way.

This is why I post. Because I am seeing too many people making a distinction between the "purity" of the art (or whatever) and the ugliness of the business. The business and the art are the same. Don't think about how they fight each other, think about how they are inexorably connected and use that to get your work into the right places.

On another note, I don't dislike Vic at all, and I don't want it to look like I'm taking a fight further, but I have to say very vehemently that I believe very strongly that the branding of a company has to drive the products and services and not the other way around. The brand isn't just marketing talk, it is the very reason that the business exists. It is a mission statement. We can all offer a ton of products and services but if those products and services don't support the core brand they are almost never worth doing. I have to admit that we are getting into a somewhat heady area of managerial accounting in addressing this issue but the simplest way to explain it is that every dollar you can make isn't necessarily a good dollar to make if the core brand isn't being supported. Like I said, we are veering out of branding and the impulse behind this thread so if that doesn't make sense it is a conversation for another day.

Well, I can't help myself..... The only reason for your business to exist is to support the life you want to lead. Why you do what you do in order to support that life you want to lead is your brand. It becomes a managerial accounting issue to determine how much work you can and do want to do, what price point you must set it at, and what you will create. This is why I say on a functional level that the brand must come first in order to run a professional business. If you want to run a hobby the products and services can drive things all day long, but I can tell you from expertise and experience that almost NEVER results in a profitable business. When you decide to run a pro photography business, you have to let the business drive. As I said before, this isn't a bad thing, or a dirty thing. It is actually a very creative and soulful thing if done right.

Sorry for the wall of text - PM if you would like to talk further.

Oh yeah, about the OP...I don't know what I would classify as overbranding. I'm not sure I can agree with that judgment. In my mind there is effective branding and weak branding.

thanks.

- trr



Feb 08, 2010 at 12:36 PM
David Manning
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p.4 #3 · Branding...


VPell wrote:
I still feel that your products and services should be driving your brand, rather than your brand driving your products and services.


Your work is the foundation upon which your brand is build. Weak foundation: weak brand. When the earthquakes come (economy), a solid foundation will support the whole structure. Professional photographers must "sell" their work, but that is not an excuse to sell substandard work for their price point. Branding is simply the communication that convinces the buyer to buy, buy again, and recommend you to others. On the other hand, those who are in it for the art are called hobbyists or amatures, not that I'm implying their skills are any less proficient.

Regarding overbranding, I do believe there are those who started as photographers, overbranded, and decided they could make more money off of photograpers than traditional clients. That is not to say they lack solid photographic skills. Trust me, I spent $1,500 on, "Find it within yourself" lessons.



Feb 08, 2010 at 01:51 PM
VPell
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p.4 #4 · Branding...


32067dlm wrote:
Your work is the foundation upon which your brand is build. Weak foundation: weak brand. When the earthquakes come (economy), a solid foundation will support the whole structure. Professional photographers must "sell" their work, but that is not an excuse to sell substandard work for their price point. Branding is simply the communication that convinces the buyer to buy, buy again, and recommend you to others. On the other hand, those who are in it for the art are called hobbyists or amatures, not that I'm implying their skills are any less proficient.

Regarding overbranding, I do believe there are those
...Show more

I agree mainly with this, but I also really understand what TRR is saying. I guess this is just kind a fork in the road.



Feb 08, 2010 at 01:59 PM
Paul Bottomley
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p.4 #5 · Branding...


TRReichman wrote:
Most of us really don't spend a ton on necessities, we spend our money on things that satisfy us in emotional ways. That's why branding is so important, because people are not buying for functional reasons, they buy because a purchase makes them feel a certain way.

This is why I post. Because I am seeing too many people making a distinction between the "purity" of the art (or whatever) and the ugliness of the business. The business and the art are the same. Don't think about how they fight each other, think about how they are inexorably connected and
...Show more

TTR is 100% bang on. Like it or not purchasing photography is a want not a need. I don't care how much you love photos, they simply are not a need to exist like clothing, food and shelter. For that matter neither are weddings or honeymoons. They are great to have and produce some wonderful emotions and feelings within us but you are still married if you go to city hall or do it in front of 500 of your nearest and dearest friends standing on a beach yet these events happen all the time.

There is so much great BUSINESS information in this thread that photographers need to heed. Notlisy knows me and we have never met. I am the middle of the road photographer who is selling his services on my personality, the experience clients will have when with me and my passion to develop memories for them and their family.

There is nothing wrong with this. I am confident in my ability to capture great memories for people who also have camera’s despite the droves of people here who can use the equipment better than me. It doesn't make what I offer less valid. In business, all things being more or less equal from a quality standpoint, people will buy from those they can relate to best as it makes them feel more comfortable.

Branding helps your customers connect to you before they have met you and secures that bond once they have met you. They may not know it themselves but customers demand and expect you to share your brand with them to HELP THEM make a decision.



Feb 08, 2010 at 02:12 PM
Ziffl3
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p.4 #6 · Branding...


Not a bad conversation.

VPell ... you seem to get branding crossed over w/ marketing.

Even gave us a definition and break down to go along with TRR.


marketing gets your product in front of a perspective client.
This includes mouth to mouth between clients and perspective clients.
This is free to the business and the strongest marketing. It may include the passing of information that describes your 'brand'.


Branding is why a client chooses you.

Notice quality of photography may not be used by the client as an item in the decision.

Your integrity, honesty, what you wear, your southern draw or New York-uptown attitude
........ all = brand


Thats it.



Now if you are saying that there are photographers who skirt the line with integrity......
Well that is nothing new in the business world.



Feb 08, 2010 at 11:07 PM
VPell
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p.4 #7 · Branding...


Branding is a part of marketing.


Feb 08, 2010 at 11:45 PM
VPell
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p.4 #8 · Branding...


Ziffl3 wrote:
Notice quality of photography may not be used by the client as an item in the decision.

Your integrity, honesty, what you wear, your southern draw or New York-uptown attitude
........ all = brand



Integrity, honesty, what you wear, your southern draw, or New York-uptown attitude may not be used by the client as an item in the decision either.

I'm still honestly shocked that some are seeing my viewpoint as weird (although quite a few have read between the lines and understand where I'm coming from).

Photography is such an important part of shaping a brand and marketing in businesses in general that it seems rather obvious that your photography is going to shape your visual brand if you're running a photography business. Two of my favorite photographers are known for reshaping the brands of fashion houses with their risque editorials (Bruce Weber ring a bell?), totally changing the way a company is perceived (Branding). Read about how Tom Ford and Mario Testino used photos effectively in this manner in the mid '90s to help a struggling house known as Gucci.

How the heck is it unreasonable to believe that visual branding suddenly doesn't work in a friggin' photography boutique or shouldn't be the easiest way to connect with our clientele considering we're PHOTOGRAPHERS? Is it absurd to believe that a ton of the photographers here in this very forum have work that speaks for itself?

When you get hired for a job the longstanding prerequisite is experience, education, and references. When people shop for a car they look up reviews, check reports, get specs, and tons of other information on the physical performance, they then take a test drive. Those are all physical, tangible reasons to ACT on the emotional feeling they had, and afterwords their contentment will lie in the physical reasons for liking or disliking it. There's a reason Hondas hold their value longer than Dodges, and it's not because of emotion and jedi mind tricks, their cars are known to physically last longer, which creates a larger demand for them in the used car market, this isn't something we've been led to believe, it's actually quite truthful, of course because of this we now have some cool branding hyperbole such as, "Hondas Last Forever", but it's because of actual reasons of substance.


Also a side note:

One thing I notice is that a lot of photographers view their photography as a "service". Professional Photography isn't a service, it's a tangible, and taxable product that is delivered to the client. The service I provide is making people feel happy, beautiful, emotional, and nostalgic for the years to come, that's not taxable, or tangible, that's the brand. I sell it USING the photos themselves though which creates that mental reaction, and my pricing scheme reflects it, with a main focus on selling full coverage. Currently it works for me, because I have an intense focus on shooting good and making the client feel good while doing it, after this year, who knows, maybe I'll just get burnt out. Whatever, the focus is on the product that the client gets in their hands, that's what sets off everything else.

I was actually fortunate enough to get a better explanation of what TRR meant through PM, and it actually makes a lot of sense and he's right thinking the way he thinks.

But I just think this issue isn't dogmatic at all, and a few people are viewing it as such, the difference in opinion concerning where the place of branding lies in your business, and more importantly what physical characteristics can attribute to a brand, whether it's a smile, a specific selling technique, or photos, or all of this stuff plus a million other things, seems very subjective to the business owner, and we see that people have found success through both of the routes.

Edited on Feb 09, 2010 at 12:54 AM · View previous versions



Feb 09, 2010 at 12:35 AM
VPell
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p.4 #9 · Branding...


oh crap i just wall of text'd.


Feb 09, 2010 at 12:35 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.4 #10 · Branding...


Bla bla bla. Can I get fries with that mcWall of text?

My branding is this: I am better than you, the client, so give me da moneys.

I keed.



Feb 09, 2010 at 01:30 AM
VPell
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p.4 #11 · Branding...


http://www.kurtiskronk.com/random/fm_avatar.jpg

Kurtis'd



Feb 09, 2010 at 01:41 AM
Tad Killian
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p.4 #12 · Branding...


I think GM, and most american car industries rely on branding too much. They think they know who they are dealing with, but they really don't have a clue. Before their demise, I'd watch GM and othe US automaker commercials, and wonder why in the world they were saying what they were.
'It's great, It's economical, we're on the top of some list somewhere, we're american made, support the troops, we're MAN-tough, we haul a lot, we have an mp3 audio plug.....indash, we boast this, and we boast that"................but they were never, not once making a better product for the last few decades. They didn't even keep up in the race, as ar as improving themselves.

Fast forward and GM has been bought out........so you would think they would focus on making better cars and easing up a bit on the lies. But, nooooooooooo, right back at it. Howie freakin' Long commercials out the butt, still.

Moral of the story.............be prepared to backup what you portray yourself as, or you will fail. You can over-brand yourself!




Feb 09, 2010 at 01:55 AM
Chris Fawkes
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p.4 #13 · Branding...


I love the star bucks logo. If i were seeing it for the first time i would expect something cool in terms of what i might experience visiting their stores.

After many years the same logo represents something to the American public and something totally different to the Australian public.

In the U.S Star Bucks symbolizes premium quality coffee and a great experience. In Australia it symbolizes cheap quality coffee and a low brow experience.

Same logo representing different things in two different cultures based upon pre or non existing references.

So any type of branding should take into account existing market expectations. How will my brand then fit in the ladder or how will it set a new standard.

Product, imagery and mostly how you present yourself as a person to the clients will all say something and can mean different things depending on who your market is.



Feb 09, 2010 at 05:10 AM
reason
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p.4 #14 · Branding...


I don't have time to read any replies,but here are some pointers.

Branding is not your logo.
Your clients don't give a crap if you have one or not
Brands like Nike or Pepsi are on the market for a long time and for them their brand and logo is crucial.
Your clients are in this market for 1.5 years MAX. 3-10 weeks is the time between them starting to look at photographers and booking one.
Your studio,pictures,reputation,price,style and advertising is your branding. They'll book you for all of the above. Branding changes and evolves with time and it shouldn't be dependent on things like your logo.
If you brand yourself as a hi-end photographer, everything you do must feel that way.
The way you represent yourself during your meeting. The way your studio is set up. What you wear. What products you offer. Price. If you brand yourself as journalistic then your images should show that. If it's creative, be sure to have most of your pictures done in that way. Branding it's a WHOLE PACKAGE and not just 1 or 2 things.

R-



Feb 09, 2010 at 02:43 PM
VPell
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p.4 #15 · Branding...


reason wrote:
I don't have time to read any replies,but here are some pointers.

Branding is not your logo.
Your clients don't give a crap if you have one or not
Brands like Nike or Pepsi are on the market for a long time and for them their brand and logo is crucial.
Your clients are in this market for 1.5 years MAX. 3-10 weeks is the time between them starting to look at photographers and booking one.
Your studio,pictures,reputation,price,style and advertising is your branding. They'll book you for all of the above. Branding changes and evolves with time and it shouldn't be dependent on things
...Show more

Wordlife homie.



Feb 09, 2010 at 02:46 PM
asimsoofi
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p.4 #16 · Branding...


People are branding and they don't even know it.

It's when you realize its potential and take control of it will your business go to the next level.

It's naive to think creating a great product is all that matters. When you show it, your essentially marketing. How you show it, your essentially branding.

/asim



Feb 09, 2010 at 04:09 PM
srclark
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p.4 #17 · Branding...


I think the most important point made on this thread was by Evan, and it seems like it's not really being picked up on.

Evan said,

"Your "brand" is a psychological construct that exists in the mind of consumers that reflects all of the information and expectations that they have for your product or service."

and then,

"You are already creating your brand, whether you know it or not. Anything that you do or fail to do that can communicate with consumers creates your brand."

Branding isn't marketing or sales efforts. It's an individual's perception of you. When a lot of people have the same perception of you, and they hold that perception over time, you have a cohesive and consistent brand.

So Vpell, regarding the last line of your OP. In this framework I don't see how it's possible to "over brand", because brand is just the product of your interaction with potential customers. There's no quantity to someone's perception of you, it's either a perception you are pleased with, or one you'd rather change.

And obviously, you can go about trying to change or influence someone's perception of you in a lot of different ways. Some more genuine and content based than others.



Aug 25, 2010 at 08:42 PM
VPell
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p.4 #18 · Branding...


random thread bump is random.


Aug 25, 2010 at 08:42 PM
srclark
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p.4 #19 · Branding...


Oh sunuva....I landed here off the "Threads you can't miss" post and forgot how I got here/how old it was.

Sorries everyone.



Aug 25, 2010 at 09:05 PM
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