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Archive 2004 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions

  
 
jwarthman
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p.3 #1 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry,
Thank you very much for reporting your experiences with this printer. It's helpful, both for those who have the 4000 on order, and for those of us who are deciding what our next printer will be.

Your image quality observations are interesting, and I'm encouraged that Epson has made some advances in this area. Since you offered, could you also print the PhotoDisc test image using your 2200, and compare the print quality with what you see from your 4000? In the meantime, I look forward to reading more of your postings.

Thanks Again!

-- Jim




Apr 02, 2004 at 08:11 AM
pacsun
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p.3 #2 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


If anyone wants a test of something else, let me know. I plan to test the Ultrasmooth with the roll version since I dont have and you cannot yet get the U/S paper in A3 sizes, or for that matter 17 inch cut sizes. I will be using my 17 inch by 50 foot roll.

Could you please try out what 'manual' paper cutting is like ? I am also very interested to find out how much paper gets wasted.
You indicated earlier that one is not supposed to move the paper backwards (as in forward,cut,rollback). What happens if you forward the paper for a manual cut and you then want to switch to sheet stock ?
Jens



Apr 02, 2004 at 10:25 AM
sagaface
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p.3 #3 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry, your willingness to share your process and results with us is wonderful...and will perhaps save some of us time in the future. Thank you so very much!

I think your advice not to use other ink systems is sound. I might grab a 2200 for this. Have you printed any complex B&W images yet on the 4000?

Sarah



Apr 02, 2004 at 11:43 AM
gervaise
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p.3 #4 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Jim and Jens, I will work today on both your questions.

Jim I have run some 2200 tests on that image before and found generally that the Luster was BETTER than the matte images, unlike the reverse here. I suspect that Epson decided that since the largest portion of images on the 4000 would be fine art papers (because of the size) that they spent their time on that end of things. That is evident to me in the quality of the enhanced matte images, which this morning after drying overnight, are even closer to perfect.

Another thing that is evident is that once dry the image quality differences between the 360 dpi matte and the 1440 dpi show up more clearly. The 360dpi shows tiny tiny gaps between the drops, even to my tired 71 year old eyes, but maybe it is because it is morning and daylight and the color temps are higher. If anything, all the colors look closer to accurate this morning, even with the Luster, which however is still off in the magenta area, but the excessive lightness is less apparent.

I am testing the roll U/S paper this morning and the questions that Jens asked about moving it back and forth. I suspect from past use of it that this will not be a problem since that paper is very smooth and does not flake like my favorite paper the Epson Velvet Fine Art and sometimes even the Enhanced Matte at the edges. The manual movement with the little arrows is fairly smooth so I would guess that small movements will not be a problem on the thinner versions, but note that the U/S comes in several thicker versions and one may have to set the thickness gap of the heads and the feed wider for them. According to the manual the machine is set to make a differential for each paper, and you can do your own settings for up to 10 other non Epson papers.

More later, let me know if there are other items of interest.

-Gerry



Apr 02, 2004 at 11:57 AM
gervaise
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p.3 #5 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Sarah, thanks for the encouragement. This has been fun to share with others and it is what makes me return to this website day after day at least four or five times a day no matter where I am and what I am doing.

The only B&W I have done to date was the desert image which I have printed on the R800, the 2200 and this machine and the quality difference in color tone contamination is significant. The 2200 is simply unacceptable to me for b&w without custom profiles, especially on luster and the glossy and semiglossy papers because it always seems to have a magenta cast no matter what I do to correct for it.

On the other hand I bought the R800 for glossy and smaller image work and for printing CD and DVD blanks that I use for backup as I don't like to label with pens that later eat thru the blank. It does a much better job of the b&w images, but they still have a slight magenta cast that is not evident unless you put the prints side by side. When you do that, there is a progression from the 2200 to the R800 to the 4000. If you are not a critical photographer you would simply not see any abberation from "normal" b&w prints with the 4000, unless perhaps you had a big pile of beautifully printed silver prints done by someone who knew what they were doing.

If you or someone else have a real broad range detailed b&w image I could use to test, send it to me by email and I will see what happens. I am a poor example of these since I don't particularly like b&w and stopped taking b&w images after college in the 1950s. Maybe that is because I was a darkroom rat in college and had to print 60 million PR black and white shots for my bosses. My fingernails were black for years from the developer. Even with digital and great processing ideas like those of Dr. Brown of Adobe, I dont find digital b&w very interesting - what I love are the marginal color images that use the blacks and whites for emphasis.

-Gerry



Apr 02, 2004 at 12:12 PM
sagaface
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p.3 #6 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


We all definitely have our preferences and that's what makes this site so interesting. I have always loved b&w but had to rely on someone else to process and print, and while we had a great, long time working relationship, it's still not the same as doing it yourself. That's why I am excited to see what I can do on my own with digital, hence my piezography interest (which I think I'll post to the board and see what I get).

Still, the 4000 sounds like an improvement on many levels for Epson, and I'm especialy impressed with their responsiveness to your initial problems. I look forward to reading more about the U/S papers and cutting issues. Your comments on how the images looked after drying were also very helpful.

Thank you so much, yet again.

Sarah



Apr 02, 2004 at 02:03 PM
James McQueen
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p.3 #7 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


I'm glad someone can afford it ....... it's too costly for this old boy. Good luck with the 4000.


Apr 02, 2004 at 05:16 PM
gervaise
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p.3 #8 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


This will likely be my last post on this thread since it is getting too long and hard to read. If this raises any new questions, I will watch for them and try to answer them. I may also post a summary of my conclusions early next week, in a new thread, by which time others should have received there 4000s from the first shipments and have their own comments.

ROLL PAPER PRINTING

Today I spent considerable time reviewing the process and experimenting with loading a 17 inch x 50 foot roll of Epson Ultrasmooth 250 g/m weight paper and printing first the PhotoDisc test image to check how the US registers colors and how the profiles for it worked. Then I printed a number of my images and one from a friend that pushed the limits of the size of prints on the machine. In sum, I was impressed with both the quality and the speed of the printer doing large prints.

Loading the roll is fairly simple and the instructions in the manual are clear and complete, so I had no problem other than finding that you have to stand over and in my case behind the machine in order to start the paper down the slot because you cannot see where it is going from the front of the machine. Once in the slot, you simply shove it in until it comes out and you can see where to stop it for the automatic feeding. Once locked in, the machine sets it up for you when you change the front LCD from cut sheet to roll paper. You have two choices, roll and roll with cutting.

I then set up the printer preferences which are also fairly easy to do, although you have to go to various screens, item by item to see that you have covered all the bases. The most complex is figuring out how to size the print on this menu because it lists all the cut sizes and it took a few minutes to figure out that you can set your own length and don't have to use the existing sizes. It is actually quite easy so I created my own custom size of 17 x 26 for one long image, and it is simply a matter of inserting the width and length in hundreds of an inch or cms so that 1700 x 2600 is 17 x 26. Apparently you can set a length all the way up to the end of a 50 foot roll, which is nice.

When setting up my first printing in PS I looked for an Ultrasmooth profile and found that there is none, but the packaging of the roll said to use the Radiant White Watercolor, which I did in both the color profile and the media type from the lists the tab tables allow you. It is a bit confusing with other papers since there is both a Luster and a Luster 250 - Epson says, use the 250 media choices for roll paper and anything 17 inches and over and the Luster only for paper smaller than 17 inches.

Once I had set the US profile and media, and the rest of the items, I found I had only two choices of dpi - Fine 720 dpi and Superfine 1440 dpi, and as usual you can turn on or off the High Speed printing. There is also a strange new box that you can check for Super x which Epson tells me is a better setting when turned on for the Microweave and they suggest checking it which I did. This is not explained in the Manual, which merely shows a picture of the box. Finishing all that, I set it up for no color management and set it to printing.

The result of the first color test on the U/S paper was simply awesome in terms of quality and speed. It took the printer exactly 10 minutes to print an image that was about 16.4 inches by 24 long, and when I compared it to the earlier prints on cut sheets of Enhanced Matte, Watercolor and Luster, it was the best of all of them in terms of matching the screen image that I had turned on to Soft Proofing. It was dead on color in every way, even when straight off the printer As it dried, it only got better. Congrats, Epson, you have a near perfect profile on a near perfect paper !!

However, I do have two complaints -

First, the surface of the U/S paper is very delicate and in the process of hand cutting it off the roll - YES - hand cutting since you are not supposed to use the internal cutter -- I slightly nicked a spot on the face of one of the kids at the bottom of the PhotoDisc image and the color came off, leaving a spot that is evident if you look carefully. I was warned by the instructions with the paper not to touch it and if I had to to use cotton gloves, but how the Hell do you cut a 17 inch wide roll of paper without touching the surface

That leads to the second complaint, the fact that fine art papers like U/S are not supposed to be cut with the internal cutter. This is simply ridiculous. There must be some way to make a stronger cutter blade that will hold up to at least the thinner weights like 250 g/m which this was. What you have to do is manually roll the paper out with the button on the front until you can see the cut line that I told the machine to make, and then when it is past that you pull up the paper and cut beyond the line with scissors. Then once you have the paper off the machine, and it has dried, you take it to your Rotatrim cutter or Logan Mat cutter and cut it evenly. There is no way you can cut along a line of a roll of paper manually and do it evenly, so I did not try.

I will admit that I cheated once and set the printer to do an automatic cut of the U/S media and when the print came out, it did indeed cut the roll very neatly exactly where I told it to do so. However from the groaning of the cutter I could see it did not like that and I will not do it again unless I am desperate, since I dont want to ruin the cutter blade the first week I used the printer. The instructions with the paper and in the manual are very explicit -- do not cut the fine art type papers with either the automatic cutter setup or bypressing the cutter button. So I won't but every time I cut one of these prints manually with a pair of scissors I will curse the engineer that designed this system.

That is pretty much the saga of roll printing on the 4000 -- it does it fast and well. loads easily and has a lot of adjustment capabilities for thickness of paper, suction pressure, and all sorts of other things you might want to or need to adjust. The manual explains it all well, including how to fix paper jams, how to remove the roll paper and all the other stuff you need to know.

Like the rest of the tests I have been conducting, the 4000 came through very well and I am very pleased with the quality and speed of the printer and think it will do me well and should save some money over using my 2200 for large prints. The problem is, I like the larger prints and the quality so much, I am likely to do more printing of large prints on more expensive paper and ink, and I will just spend more. I guess that was why Epson built this nice toy for us all. I also recognize what James said before this post here, not everyone can afford this printer, but for a professional or advanced photographr hobbiest, it is simply the most awesome printer I have ever used or seen and I love it.

Virtually all the prints I made at 1440 dpi and high speed took 10 minutes each. I am sure that when you make it print unidirectionally it will nearly double the time. However, as Mac Holbert said in the very helpful Video that comes with the printer, you should use the highest dpi and the unidirectional printing if you want the best quality. I simply did not have the time nor did I want to use that much ink for tests. I will be running one soon though on one of my best prints to verify the timing, But to be honest, the quality at 1440 dpi is so good that no one but I will ever know which dpi I used. I think you will all find this is one super printer for those of us who can afford to use it for personal use and those using it professionally.

Got to go now and order some more suppies for it, since I suspect that when the deliveries ramp up, all the 7600 ink will run out and no one will have any more Ultrasmooth papers left in stock. It does use a lot of ink and paper at this speed and with the huge number of square feet I plan on printing. For those of you who have not ordered your 4000 - good luck, I suspect the line will get longer once others see what this printer can really do.

If you have other questions about this, post them or PM me and I will do my best to answer them. This has been fun and I hope educational for all of us, but most of all I love my new toy.

-Gerry



Apr 03, 2004 at 12:05 AM
gervaise
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p.3 #9 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Sorry, one last thing I forgot to comment on - which black ink is used for which papers and how do you know?

With the 2200 and others you can select which black ink you want to use, either matte black or photo black. Apparently you cannot do this with the 4000 which selects the best choice for you, and there is no way you can tell which one it is using on its own. In response to this question, here is what Epson Tech Support told me:

"You can't specifically tell the printer to use one type of black over the other. The type of black ink will be selected based on the media type that you select in the driver. This is done automatically by the printer to ensure the best possible output. Although photo black ink can be used with all media types, matte black will be used when selecting fine art media and photo black will be used when selecting the photo (glossy type) papers."

How this choice is made and which choice Epson made, I don't know, but at least it eliminates the problems and cost of switching ink that the 7600 and 9600 owners have. It costs about $100 to switch inks on those printers, and on the 4000, it costs nothing. That is a good reason to use a 4000 over the older Epson printers.

-Gerry



Apr 03, 2004 at 12:46 AM
jturley
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p.3 #10 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Blow away the Status Monitor. You don't really need it.
I have a 7600 and 9600 and never use it.



Apr 03, 2004 at 02:49 AM
gervaise
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p.3 #11 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Unfortunately with the 4000 it is necessary in order to use the printer effectively. The Epson Utility2 which runs a number of needed functions will not communicate with the printer if it is not working, which is why Epson Tech Support and I had to spend that time to make it work, which it does now.

According to the Tech Manager it is not optional, like it might be with the 2200 and your systems. It is not just an indicator of the ink levels on this machine. Furthermore, on at least my 4000, the ink indicators on the LCD are not that accurate, while the ones on the Status Monitor are. The LCD ink bars move in 20% increments, the SM appears to be much more sensitive.



Apr 03, 2004 at 08:08 AM
Art Green
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p.3 #12 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Hi Gary, I just signed up with FM Forums because of your feedback on the Epson 4000. I will eagerly follow the next chapters.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Art



Apr 04, 2004 at 01:57 AM
Ginarose
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p.3 #13 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry, I also signed up to the FM forum because of your very interesting feedback on the 4000. I'm on a couple of waiting lists for the 4000 and when it does arrive at least I'll be a little familiar with it because of your posts.
I just know your going to enjoy your 4000.
Andrew



Apr 04, 2004 at 09:54 AM
gervaise
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p.3 #14 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Printing Time At Maxium DPI

One nearly final report for Jan and others interested in the absolute maximum printing conditions on the 4000. Using a 17 x 22 Luster compatible paper (Epson has not released Luster in this big a cut sheet yet, nor 17 inch rolls) I set up the printer to 2880dpi, unidirectional, Super x checked on, and with the Premium Luster 250 media and profile setting.

The print was of an image that Jess Levin had sent me for a test since he and I like his Chocolate Path image shot with his 1Ds. It was a 109mb JPEG file that I set to print at the maximum dimensions I could get for it on this paper, given that it was longer than normal. The print was set to portrait mode, 14.8 inches wide and 21.767 long and set to Maximum on the Print Setup. It was fascinating to watch the printer que box since the processing to print this turned this into a 504mb file, and I was able to watch it as the file was sent to the printer, MB by MB over my Firewire connection, as the seconds literally ticked off.

The print time from beginnng of the first unidirectional pass to the last one was exactly 23 minutes and 34 seconds, including one point at which the auto clogging and auto alignment feature must have detected something wrong and fixed it, because it stopped and made one pass that was not printing but probably checking the nozzles and then it resumed.

The image is stunning and again a tribute to the work the Epson engineers have done on this printer. Although the image shows a slight softness because it was enlarged so much, the chocolatity colors of the path are very evident and the browns, whites and slightly orangish-yellow dead leaves are lovely. You can see the splotches of color on the tree trunks and the melting snow along the path. BTW if you would like to see Jess' image go to
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/old/75716/0#616232 and look at it, it is an image any photographer would be proud off. I plan, with Jess' permission, to hang a copy of it on my wall, along with some of my better images.

I think you have all suffered enough with my comments and I should leave it to others to tell you how their 4000 installs and works for them. I will look forward to those reports. If anyone has other questions about the printer either post them here or PM or email me and I will reply as time permits. I think I may, given the interest this thread has had, post a summary of my conclusions later so that people don't have to read thru more than fifty messages. What do you all think, would that be helpful?

-Gerry



Apr 04, 2004 at 04:44 PM
jwarthman
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p.3 #15 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry,
Again, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us. I know it's taken quite some time for you to carefully record the events over the past week or so. By all means, I'd enjoy reading a summary of your thoughts thus far. Heck, I'd love it if you'd continue to keep us posted about your new experiences with the 4000!

By the way, I'm interested in learning how the interface (USB vs. Firewire vs. Ethernet) affects print speed. Does a slower interface actually form a bottleneck for the printer? Or would USB have plenty of bandwidth to keep the printer running at its maximum speed?

Thanks!

-- Jim



Apr 04, 2004 at 05:14 PM
gervaise
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p.3 #16 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Jim, the USB and Firewire seem to run at about the same speed, provided that you have it connected to a USB2.0 port. There are two standards now for USB2.0 and one is faster than the other. I would not recommend using this printer with the large files needed for 17 inch paper, unless you have a fast USB or Firewire cable and good quality port adapter in your PC.

Most MACs have a firewire port, but most PCs need a PC adapter board added unless it is a pretty new machine. I have an Adaptec Combo Firewire/USB with two ports for each and it works much better and faster than my built in USB port on the Intel motherboard. I recommend it highly since it is now fairly cheap and works much better than the cheap USB adapters with which I have had lots of problems. Also invest the extra four or five bucks in a faster Firewire or USB cable, the cheap ones often don't work as well, and don't try to use one over 10 feet, as they often cause problems. I have tried this machine with a 6 and a 10 foot, and had a 16 foot USB cable on it and it still worked, but seemed to search a bit before it connected.



Apr 04, 2004 at 06:55 PM
jwarthman
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p.3 #17 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry,
It's good to hear that long USB cables work okay. I'm using an older Mac, which has Firewire and the "older" USB. I guess I'll be using Firewire or Ethernet to connect to the printer.

Thanks!

-- Jim



Apr 04, 2004 at 07:01 PM
gervaise
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p.3 #18 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


You cannot use Ethernet with it unless you buy the $150 Ethernet card for it. It is not worth it, IMO. See the specs.


Apr 04, 2004 at 07:13 PM
wtlloyd
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p.3 #19 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


gervaise wrote:
Printing Time At Maxium DPI

I think you have all suffered enough with my comments and I should leave it to others to tell you how their 4000 installs and works for them. I will look forward to those reports.

-Gerry



Well, quite actually - I have been facinated with each installment. There is no comparable information available - period. None of the usual on-line reviewers are posting yet - Vicent Oliver at Photo-I just got his machine and will start one of his exhaustive "interactive" reviews sometime this next week. I, for one, would welcome any and all further posts you make on this thread - or start a new one if you like! I don't expect to receive a machine for several months and have far less printing experience than most of you, so this is a big step up for me - I would like to prepare for and understand the subtleties of using a printer like this as much as possible before receiving one.

So, please, please, don't think you are wasting bandwidth here, and post on!



Apr 04, 2004 at 08:15 PM
Photon
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p.3 #20 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry, you've put together many of the elements of a great Epson 4000 tutorial within this thread! If you are willing at some point to collect them and summarize, it would make a highly worthwhile article for the Forum, one that I would think Fred would be pleased to host for as long as the 4000 remains current. Thanks from all of us, and special thanks from me for choosing to use one of my images as part of your experiments.

- Jess



Apr 04, 2004 at 08:25 PM
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