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Archive 2004 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions

  
 
R. Eisenberg
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p.2 #1 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks very much Gerry for these highly informative and helpful reports and for trailblazing for many of us. Good luck.


Mar 31, 2004 at 12:02 PM
lurple
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p.2 #2 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks for the detailed reports Gerry! They are most helpful and informative.

I am more than a little disappointed that Epson did not manufacture the cutter in a manner that it would cut papers like the UltraSmooth.



Mar 31, 2004 at 12:23 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #3 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks to all for your support and ideas, they are all good ones and we are still checking each of them and lots of others, although I admit to being a bit frustrated we have not discovered the root problem.

Charles, you asked "Would you first install the software and drivers that came with the printer, or would you wait and download the updates from Epson's web site and use those first?"

I would just go to the Epson website and download all four needed files, being sure to get the one for your OS, and install them instead of the ones on the disk. The problem is though that there apparently are other files on the CD that you might want and I have not yet figured out how to get just what I want, but then I did not take the time to study it. One the machine where it worked at once, that is what I was used. The Utility program that is on the website checks and informs you of the version of firmware on the printer, and then lets you install the new firmware, which was an interesting process that the LCD keeps you informed on, as it does it, and when it is finished. Epson obviously though this process well, like the rest of the design of this machine.

Dwight, I am going to ask the Manager of Tech Support why this is. I can see why it might not cut the thick versions, but not the standard.

-Gerry



Mar 31, 2004 at 12:51 PM
jrasmussen
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p.2 #4 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


I like may others are watching to see how you get along with this printer.

It sure sounds like a very good printer when it gets fully setup and running.

I am also curious about the paper cutter issue. Is it that the paper is too heavy or smooth or what?

Watching with bated breath.



Mar 31, 2004 at 02:46 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #5 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


From discussions with the Tech Support people at Epson, they tell me the issue is that the Ultrasmooth and other fine art papers are too hard and tough and cutting them will quickly destroy the cutter blades. They of course also come in some fairly thick versions which really need a mat cutter type blade.

I had not realized it, but they tell me even the upper end Epsons cannot cut these papers because to build a cutter this strong would be so costly and large that it would adversely affect the registration and quality of the printer heads, which makes sense.

The other surprising thing I learned was that the Prem Glossy cannot be fed thru the paper bin route, and it has to be fed manually or thru the roll paper slot, one at a time. The problem here is apparently that this paper is so thin and shiny that it screws up the paper feed. In fact if you tell the printer you are using Prem Glossy, it will refuse to even try to feed it thru the bin, and tells you to try again thru the manual feed. This is also a pain, but then I suspect not many people use Glossy on a 4000 intended for large prints. Semigloss, though, works great from the bin.

Still working on the Status Monitor problem, which now seems to come down to some conflict in one of the subprograms that installs it. We are working with the Epson software guys to see what that program does and why it is choking. I am still amazed at how responsive Epson has been on this. The Tech people and the Tech manager have been on the phone or in emails with me constantly for two days, AND they meet their promises of recontacting me with information. It is unbeliveable compared to places like HP and their tech support folks in India who dont even speak intelligible English and have no clue about the problems. Epson apparently really cares about solving the issues.

-Gerry



Mar 31, 2004 at 03:32 PM
Mike Hatam
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p.2 #6 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


What an awesome thread! I should be receiving my Epson 4000 in about a week, so this has been tremendously valuable to read your experiences, Gerry.

Thanks very much, and please continue to post your findings. There are many of us eagerly soaking up all your posts.

Mike



Apr 01, 2004 at 12:06 AM
lurple
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p.2 #7 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Did the Epson folks give any ideas on "how" to cut the thicker papers. I would hate to even think about backing the paper thru the printer and then cutting it. I guess you could somehow (manually or by making a larger custome print size) make the paper feed an extra 4"x6" and then rig up some sort of cutting device to get clean and straight cuts, but that would be a pain in the butt as well as wasteful of the expensive paper. If I remember correctly Epson is advertising the Ultra-Smooth roll paper for the 4000, hopefully they at least have come up with a clean, efficient way to deal with prints on it.

Kind of makes me wonder what I might be doing to the cutter on my 2200 when I cut Professional Semi-Matte.



Apr 01, 2004 at 08:32 AM
gervaise
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p.2 #8 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Dwight, I dont know what they intend. I will ask today when I talk to them. We still are working to find out why this one program does not execute correctly on my Intel Pentium 4 system, but does work on my old Dell..

I have the impression that the fibers in the semi-matte are not the same and that it only those that are all cotton or canvas that do the job. I do know that the cutter head on the 4000 is very large and looks pretty tough. There are instructions in the maual on how to replace the cutter and it is a user replaceable part, unlike, I think that on the 2200.



Apr 01, 2004 at 11:28 AM
wtlloyd
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p.2 #9 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Hi, and thanks for keeping us up to date.

If you could, you might ask Epson if they have plans to put the manual up in their downloads section, in a PDF format. There's a few things there, but I am not finding the details you refer to in the manual you are referencing.



Apr 01, 2004 at 11:34 AM
jtriebe
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p.2 #10 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


The reference manual on the Epson site is an htm document and not a pdf file, but you can view this and other things here:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Doc&oid=30901&prodoid=37368463

John Triebe



Apr 01, 2004 at 12:36 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #11 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


The Printer Guide I am referring to is not the one on the website that John just pointed to. It is a spiral bound, 140 page how to do it guide to things like using cut paper, how to load paper in the various bins and slots, and information like that. It is useful for day to day questions. I am finding it helpful, although like all indexes in manuals, I cannot always find what I want. It would be helpful if Epson would post that manual, as well, on the website, so it could be searched electronically. It does need to be available in paper, as it is, since it is the one I turn to when I have a question.

Of course, sometimes the info I want is not in here, but in the more comprehensive pdf manual. That manual drives me nuts because it is broken into sections that are, I find, hard to guess at where the information is. However, since it is in electronic form I can search it.

-Gerry



Apr 01, 2004 at 01:26 PM
sagaface
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p.2 #12 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Oh so happy to have stumbled upon this thread! Gerry, you gave some great advice about my monitor search and I am very interested to read more about the 4000, which I am poised to buy once the reviews from real users start rolling in.

Have you any experience with piezography inks with your printers? It's one of the reasons I am considering adding the Epson alongside my Canon S9000.

Keep us updated on all your impressions...boy, sure sounds like a beast! If I end up with an Artisan and this bad boy I will need serious reinforcements for my desks!

Sarah



Apr 01, 2004 at 04:26 PM
Mike Hatam
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p.2 #13 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gary - I have a quick question for you...

My 4000 should arrive next week, and I'm trying to figure out what type of table I'm going to place it on. What minimum dimensions do you recommend for surface that the printer will sit on? Based on your first post, I'm thinking it needs to be about 34" x 36". Is that right? Would a smaller surface suffice? That's an extremely large surface, so I'm hoping a smaller one would do.

Thanks,
Mike



Apr 01, 2004 at 04:35 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #14 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Sarah and Mike, let me answer your questions together.

First, there is no way I would risk using non-Epson inks on this expensive and delicate beast because it has 180 tiny, tiny nozzles on the head that could easily clog. I do understand that the Cone people in New England make and distribute piezography inks for the 2200. You might also look at the www.inkjetart.com website which has some information on that, as I recall.

As to desks and tables for this, the first requirement is that it hold a small elephant standing on one foot on it !!! The physical dimensions are exactly 30 inches deep and 33 inches at the widest point, but it has an overhang for the inks on both sides and the actual bottom area that has to have support is 26 inches wide and 18 inches deep. The machine is actually 18 inches high but you will need lots more space above it to open and install the roll paper. You also need more clearance behind it since apparently when you use the hand feed and posterboard the board goes out in back and feeds back in.

I have a 28 inch deep and 48 inch wide table that it essentially fills, and the roller area hangs over behind considerably. My table is 28 inches tall, so that I used to be able to sit and feed my R800 and 2200 while seated -- this is not possible with the 4000 as it is so large you have to stand over it to load it. Also a very annoying problem is that the LCD that reads out the inks and instructions and messages it sends and accepts cannot be read unless you are standing over it, due to the angle it is at. It is not particularly well lit, and also to save power, the light on it goes out every so often when not being used. Were I the product manager I would replace the LCD with a better one and with more backlight, but that is a nit with all the other good things about this monster.

Finally, the biggest problem is that because of its weight, when it is running (which is fairly quiet to my way of thinking) it moves the head back and forth very smoothly, but because it is so heavy, it literally shakes my table and the floor. I think you should be careful not to place other tables or things next to the printer so that they are touching, as my two side tables do. Whatever you do, buy or get a table that is strong and which has sturdy legs and is well supported. There is an Epson metal stand due out at the end of the summer but that will not help us for now and it is expensive at around $300.

Hope this helps. - Gerry



Apr 01, 2004 at 05:38 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #15 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


wtlloyd, I am told by the Tech Manager that this week end they will hopefully have the Manual put up in pdf format. For some reason this was not done originally. I don't think they plan to post the Printer Guide that comes with it, since there is more information in the one on the website.

I also learned that the specs posted on the Epson website for the Ultrasmooth paper profiles are wrong. The 4000 printer is set up so that it automatically switches ink to the proper black for those papers like U/S which are optimized to use matte black. For Luster it automatically switches to photoblack. The problem is that the paper specs say to use photoblack for U/S paper, which it will not let you do. Actually the correct profile for the U/S paper is the Radiant White Watercolor paper profile, which is what you should use. No one has made a specific profile for the 4000 Ultrasmooth and the Tech Manager said DO NOT USE the 7600 profile for this paper on the 4000 as it will not work because the heads on the 4000 are very different (and I think better than the 7600). As this is contrary to what the paper spec say, I thought you all might like to know this.

-Gerry



Apr 01, 2004 at 05:53 PM
Mike Hatam
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p.2 #16 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks for the info Gary - very helpful!


Apr 01, 2004 at 06:00 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #17 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


SUCCESS, and thanks to Epson Tech Support for hanging in there with me on my Status Monitor installation issue. They spent over six hours on the phone with me over three days, we tried a dozen ideas, and we interchanged maybe 25 emails, they sent me a new CD by UPS, and eventually we solved it together. Patience is a virtue, as my English grandmother used to tell me.

Everything is now apparently working great and I can set the various functions using the new Epson Utility and check the ink levels, as needed. The install is complete, as planned. Now I can really set to testing it and answering my questions and yours, as they come up. Please post them and I will do my best to respond, as I continue to play and test this lovely monster. I have labelled the printer "Grey Monster" on my printer list, in honor of its color and size -- my very own Japanese video game character.

The problem was that somewhere during the installation on Monday my system or the Internet glitched and when I told it to install the Status Monitor, it tried to do so, but encountered an error, as it indicated it did. Once this happend, all subseqent attempts.to correct it failed, even though I had deleted virtually every file that Epson had on my system, including the drivers for the R800 and the 2200.

What I did, as suggested by the Epson Tech Manager, was go to the System Tools in XP Pro and told it to restore the system registry to March 25, about a week ago, long before I had even downloaded the new driver and other Epson files. Once this was done, I searched and found that there were still about eight Epson files scattered over my system disk, all of which I deleted.

Then I carefully reinstalled the 4000 driver from the replacement disk Epson sent me Wednesday, checked that it was OK; reinstalled the Status Monitor 3, checked that it worked, and finally reinstalled the new Epson 4000 Utilities program which allows you to set a numer of things on the printer and to get the reports that I described in an earlier message here. Then I checked to see that everything worked and that the reports were available and that I could reset various functions, as I wished. I now have the newest firmware installed, which is different than that shipped in the printer.

Those of you who hate the Adobe activation scheme will be unhappy to know that this resulted in my having to reactivate my copy of PS CS. I did so, but it ticks me off, since I did not change the hardware of my machine, only restored to a different Registry date.

Away, it all works now, and now I start some serious testing - starting with the roll paper. By the way this is what the Tech Manager told me about how to cut papers that are too thick to use the internal cutter on the 4000:

"There are two different workflow issues surrounding roll cutting when it has to be done manually--

#1 Just want to print one image
#2 Printing multiple Images

The solutions involve use of the front panel controls to advance the paper and perform a manual external cut (not using the printers blade) at the appropriate time. The printer can draw a cut line on the print to aid if attempting to use a manual scissor cut method. You never want to release the paper and wind it back through the printer as that is bad for the print (scuffs and scratches) as well as the mechanism.

The difference for multiple images is you would typically let them go till the final one then cut and trim from the printer. Once removed the separating cuts would be made. The Larger format printers have optional auto-take up reels to wind the images as they are spooled to improve this type of workflow and protect the prints from being scratched by the floor. Maximum durability is achieved within about 24 hours although the prints are relatively instant dry."

Even though this is a pain, at least you have a cut line, which he tells me can be set up to print automatically when you ask the printer to print on roll paper.

More later. Thanks to all of you who indicated your support with my installation saga, and thanks again to Epson Tech Support for the continued efforts at support until we resolved it.

-Gerry




Apr 01, 2004 at 07:27 PM
Hoofpix
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p.2 #18 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry,
I'm brand new to this forum, go here via a post on DPReview. I really enjoy reading your remarks about the 4000 as I have one on order. I have a thought on your problem with the printer-Monitor status communication. I had the same problem when I installed ImagePrint 5.6. There is a setting in the Printer Properties that I had to diable for IP to print properly with my Epson 2200. But it resulted in not being able to invoke and view the Monitor Status. I use WinXP, so I assume these directions are similar.... you may want to check this setting... Start>Settings>Printers& Faxes>right click on the Epson 4000 then chose Properties. Select the Port tab and make sure that "Enable Bidirectional Support" is checked.
A long shot, maybe... but what the hay Look forward to hearing more about your expirience with the 4000.... not to try to find room for it in my office :}



Apr 01, 2004 at 09:51 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #19 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Welcome to this site and the forum, Pamela, and thanks for the suggestions. I did check that and it is turned on. I suspect that is not much of an issue here, since I am using the Firewire 1394a connection which works very fast and well. But you are right, it has to be turned on.

After several days of this, I am convinced that what happened is that the computer glitched the first time it tried to install this file, and thereafter it was hiding some changes or bad files somewhere. Only when I did a restore and went back to its condition several days before I first tried to install it, did it work again.

With the equipment you own, you will find this a wonderful, comfortable and helpful place. I have learned some much from the guys and gals here, it is hard to measure it. Unlike dpreview, 99% of the comments are constructive and generally the level of experience is a bit higher. I am a little afraid to post my images here, but do occasionally, since most of the stuff posted here is awesomely good. Even at that I learn from it. Lets seem some of your images.

-Gerry



Apr 01, 2004 at 10:14 PM
gervaise
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p.2 #20 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


IMAGE PRINT TIMES and QUALITY

One additional report that Jan asked about and which I would think of interest to others:.

Tonight I took the standard Kodak PhotoDisc TIFF file, which is about 44mbs in size, and using PS CS I printed a series of test images on various types of 13 x 19 (A3) Epson papers for the purpose of checking both the accuracy of the color and the time it took to print. I used the provided Epson 4400 profiles for color management and did nothing in PS except sharpen it a bit and make certain that it was treated as an RGB file on the screen.

The image itself was about 11 x 17 so that it pretty much fills the sheet with a one or two inch margin around it. It is fascinating to note that the time to print these varied from just over one minute at 360dpi on Enhanced Matte and about 15 minutes at 2880dpi on Luster, in all cases using the HiSpeed setting.

In all cases the color quality was more than acceptable, although under a 5000 degree Kelvin light the Luster print appeared to me (without giving it the usual 24 hours to dry) to be slightly magenta and slightly too light. On the other hand the Enhanced Matte print AT 360dpi was so close to my color managed Sony screen, set to soft profile the paper, that I could see virtually no difference between the screen and the print.

This latter result blows my mind because the 360dpi print is also so bright and clear that the average viewer who was not a critical photographer would think it was the best looking print they had ever seen in this size. It is so good, I would question the need to use much more than 360dpi for routine prints on this paper if they are all like this. This result is really amazing to me, all the more because I got this print by accident when I forgot to set the quality to 1440dpi and when the print came out of the printer in about ONE MINUTE, I thought something was wrong and it had rejected the image or the paper.

When I printed it again at the mazimum quality the printer will allow you to set for Enhanced Matte - 1440dpi, the quality of the print was a bit better but frankly not much. The color was perhaps even closer to the screen image, but again not that much.

The paper I like to use sometimes for highly colored images, RW Watercolor resulted in a beautiful match of the colors which was just a hair less perfect than the Enhanced Matte 1440dpi and noticably better than the Luster.

The print times were, approximately:

Luster at 2880 dpi about 14-15 minutes (I lost track)
Enh Matte at 360 dpi slightly over one minute
Enh Matte at 1440 dpi about 5 minutes
RW Watercolor at 1440dpi about 5 and a half minutes

As you can see, the print times vary with the papers and are not linear when increasing the dpi. They sure are better than my 2200, that is for certain and given the quality of the images, they are signs that Epson has been listening to its users complaints that the Ultrachrome printer time was too long compared to Canon's dye printers, for instance.

If anyone wants a test of something else, let me know. I plan to test the Ultrasmooth with the roll version since I dont have and you cannot yet get the U/S paper in A3 sizes, or for that matter 17 inch cut sizes. I will be using my 17 inch by 50 foot roll.

-Gerry



Apr 02, 2004 at 02:57 AM
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