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Archive 2004 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions

  
 
gervaise
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p.1 #1 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Following up my request that others comment on the 4000 when they got it, here are some initial impressions of my copy of the machine that arrived today around Noon Pacific Time. I apologize that more of the comments don't deal with quality of the prints from it, but as you will learn below, there were some problems installing it on my PC running Win XP Pro, that have still not been resolved. I will supplement this when they are.

Overall, I am impressed with how solid it is, and how relatively quiet it runs even when printing. However, even on a solid table, it shakes the floor of my home office slightly, which has two other tables adjoining it. I am going to have to isolate them to stop the vibration while it is printing. It also lives up to its claimed speed, in that my first A3 size (12 x 15 image) only took about 3 minutes to print out. It seems like the 8 x 10s I did took longer for some reason, but they had to smaller images on them. All the stuff I have printed to now is on semi-gloss or luster. Will try Enhanced Matte and Ultrasmooth next, but I wanted to do the first tests with cut paper so as not to waste the big papers.

It is a monster of a machine when you get it set on a table. I knew it was 33 inches wide, but forgot that it is almost 18 inches tall, and from front to back needs at least 34-36 inches of clearance with the built in roll paper holder in back and the huge cut paper holder in front into which you can load up to 250 pieces of ordinary paper and at least 50 sheets of typical printer paper.

The UPS guy nearly went bananas over the size of the box it comes in, which actually weighs 137 pounds because it has wooden blocks under it and gobs of packing materials which you are supposed to save for reshipment in case of needed repairs. Where you would put it, I dont know unless you have an extra garage. I am sure you could drop the box from 20 feet and the printer would survive, the way it is packed. Yet it opens easily once you figure out how to undo the strange little white clips that hold the sides on it.

There are actually only a few items in the box that are not on the machine - the roll paper parts, the front paper bin, the power cord and some little plastic things, and the various manuals and two CDs - one a movie on how to set the printing functions for better prints, and the drivers and utilities (More of that later!). You will need two strong guys to pull it out of the box and carry it to where you are putting it and for heavens sake, get a strong table as the thing weighs about 85 pounds without any paper or ink carts in it, and likely over a 100 when filled with this stuff.

Installation of the hardware was fairly simple, once you removed the six thousand pieces of blue tape stuck everywhere, and pulled out a couple of blue plastic things that lock the parts together. From box opening to having it running and pumping the ink into the lines took perhaps an hour to an hour and half, assuming you read the quick install brochure and dont spend all your time admiring the machine you just paid $1,800 for. It also comes with several manuals and one longer reference manual on the CD that you install on the computer.

The eight 110ml cartridges snap into place on either side with fairly quick fit and I gather they are color keyed since they slipped in very nicely, and are also color coded. There is a leve on the right side of each that has to be pushed up and down a number of times while it is pumping ink into the lines, and this process took perhaps 10 minutes. It took longer to open all the cartridge packs and cut the plastic and shake the carts, than it did to get the ink installed.

One scary thing is the comment in the instructions, to the effect that the carts they give you are "intended to prime the ink lines," and that this takes up to 50% of the ink in them (at $69 each list!!) and that you may find they will run out of ink fairly soon, so be sure to have a set of back up cartridges available. Damn, I paid $1,800 and the ink will run out and I have to pay another $500 for more shortly after I install it Yikes, I hope not. My wife would kill me if she knew what the printer cost, let alone buying more ink right away.

From here, you load either the roll or cut sheet paper, and then start installing the software. That is another story. I had noticed on the Epson website that there were already some apparently revised drivers and other software, and a firmware upgrade and a utility needed to install the revised firmware. So I had already downloaded them for use. But in installing the CD and reading the instructions (I am one of those fussy people who read manuals FIRST, I noticed it said very clearly install the software that comes with the machine first, then later install the revisions that you may find on the Epson website. SO I DID it that way, contrary to my inclinations.

Surprisingly the machine worked immediately in the sense that I was able at once to print a test page and when I went into PS CS, I found a whole long list of profiles for virtually all the Epson papers for this machine, EXCEPT Ultrasmooth. I proceeded to print my first print (on the wrong side of the paper, of course, since I forgot that the paper has to be loaded face DOWN in the tray) and on the second try I got a nice little 8 x 10 snap shot sample I was using for a test.

Then I tried to see why the ink monitor was not coming up like my 2200 did while printing and I also tried to use the Utility software to check what version the drivers were and what version of the firmware I had, to see if I needed to re-install everything with the updated version - like the little yellow paper said to do. SURPRISE, the ink monitor would not come up and the utility software said it could not communicate with the printer -- HOW COME, it prints from the computer? What is going on here??

The solution to that mystery awaits section 2 of this report, and the final solution hopefully will come tomorrow when I call Epson for the third time and tell them that of everything they told me to do, three different sets of ideas, NONE worked. I will stop now to see if anyone cares about this initial report. More later.

-Gerry



Mar 30, 2004 at 01:17 AM
tomrock
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p.1 #2 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks for posting this -- I remember you saying it was coming last week and I hoped you would follow up.

Good luck getting things straightened out. I'm very interested in this printer.



Mar 30, 2004 at 06:17 AM
Ed Peters
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p.1 #3 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks Gerry, remember you're suffering for all of us. Keep up the good work!


Mar 30, 2004 at 09:30 AM
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p.1 #4 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry:

I had a similar problem re the print dialog and print utility in XP when I first set up my 9600 -- turned out to be a bad USB cable.



Mar 30, 2004 at 09:56 AM
Mary
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p.1 #5 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry,

Thank you so much for this initial report. Please continue to post your experience with this printer no matter how minor something may seem. I'm sure there are a lot of people like me who want to hear the experiences of others with this printer before buying. I'm anxiously awaiting your next report.

Mary



Mar 30, 2004 at 10:46 AM
gervaise
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p.1 #6 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thanks to all of you who have read my report and to those who gave me solace. I only have time this AM to add a couple of comments, but they are, I think, of interest and helpful to those interested in this printer. It is going to be a great printer, once we resolve these issues, I am convinced.

First, late last night I ran some major tests on both the Luster and Ultrasmooth papers, printing some 12 x 15 images with lots of shadow and bright colors. I am happy to report that the profiles that come with the printer are spot on, like none I have ever seen unless custom made. As I have a Sony Artisan monitor, I can soft proof and test pretty well. Both these paper's profiles produced prints that were essentially identical to the image on the screen. You apparently have to use the Enhanced Matte paper profile for the Ultrasmooth. There is a Luster profile and it works well. I will experiment with the others later today.

Second, I am impressed with the speed of the printing, as I mentioned before. The large prints just chug out of the printer in a few minutes without delay and the fact this has a big paper tray that you can just lay a bunch of 13 x 19 paper in it and print away is great. I have yet to do the roll printing.

One thing I was very disappointed about was that the manual says you cannot use the built-in cutter to cut the Ultrasmooth Epson paper. This is a bummer, since that is supposed to be the best matte finish paper made for Epson printers. Now I am supposed to hand cut with scissors, every 17 inch wide print that comes off a 50 foot roll on this printer? That is disappointing and I think a major design defect, since roll paper is a major cost saving when printing lots of images.

Finally, I was immensely impressed early this morning when the Tech Support Manager for Large Format Epson printers personally called me and apologized for the problems I was having and promised to have his staff try to resolve the problems and get back to me later today, if at all possible. He was very knowledgeable and very interested in what problems I had and why, and we chatted for 20 minutes. I was also impressed that he, too, is a photographer doing landscape and serious photography. Epson made a good decision to have a person like this running their tech support. Now, if he can just get the problems solved, I will be even more impressed!!

More later.

-Gerry



Mar 30, 2004 at 11:30 AM
gervaise
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p.1 #7 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


By the way, Jack, and others. It is not the cable. The printer prints fine, it is a problem caused by the fact that the Status Monitor, for some reason, cannot see the printer, even though all the other programs can and do react with the printer. Apparently unless this program can see the machine, the other Utilities that use this interconnection cannot do their job.

I have connected it with both a Firewire and a USB2.0 cable, and it works fine with them, except for the Status Monitor. I suspect that the problem relates to a corrupted file on their server, since each time I attempt to install the program, it results in an error message stating that the attempt to install had resulted in an error. Lets hope it is this simple - I would sure hate to have to repack the printer and send it back - that would take three hours and a crane.

-Gerry



Mar 30, 2004 at 11:35 AM
pacsun
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p.1 #8 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Why is the paper cutter not useable for the Ultrasmooth paper ? Is that the only paper it has problems with ? Is it just a matter of the cut not being 'clean' which could easily be fixed outside the printer ?


Mar 30, 2004 at 06:46 PM
Jan Brittenson
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p.1 #9 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


It might be worth making sure all antivirus software is disabled while installing the print monitor.



Mar 30, 2004 at 08:38 PM
John M
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p.1 #10 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry,
Thanks for the posts. My 4000 was shipped on friday, so I should have it anyday.I'll let you know how I make out.

John



Mar 30, 2004 at 09:17 PM
Photon
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p.1 #11 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry, thanks for all the information. I am seriously considering this printer, and will be interested to see how the software situation is resolved (as well as in your judgments of print quality in various specialized uses). The bit about not using the cutter for Ultrasmooth was a real surprise. Is it a thicker or tougher paper than the others available in roll format?

When I switched from a Win2K computer to a WinXP, I found that my Epson 2000 Status Monitor no longer worked. Never resolved that, despite attempts with downloaded updated drivers from Epson's web site.



Mar 30, 2004 at 09:33 PM
Jan Brittenson
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p.1 #12 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


I'd love to hear more about the print quality, how the experience is with swapping K's, and how fast it can crank out a 16x20 at the highest quality!




Mar 30, 2004 at 10:11 PM
Photon
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p.1 #13 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


And the quality of black and white prints!


Mar 30, 2004 at 10:28 PM
gervaise
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p.1 #14 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Very pleased to see that my comments have been helpful to others, as I always appreciate the wonderful spirit of cooperation I find here when I have problems or questions.

Let me address some of the recent questions asked here:

Paper cutting limitations - apparently because it is tougher and harder and thicker, the Printer Guide, p. 26 specifically says that certain listed media "does not work with the built-in cutter" - this includes all the Epson Fine Art papers like Ultrasmooth, Textured and Somerset Velvet, as well as the expected Canvas, Matte Board, Vinyl, backlight film, heavy polyester banners and DuOont Semigloss proofing paper. I don't see any issue with the odd materials and plastics, but I was really surprised and a bit upset that it precludes cutting any of the fine art papers, since they are what many of us use a printer like this for. There are many pages in the manual on how to cut specially thick or thin papers and how to adjust the cutter and the suction to deal with all this stuff. I have not had time to read it all, but it seems fairly straight forward.

The Status Monitor Problem - This problem is still not resolved on my super fast, huge RAID disk Photoshop machine, although I must say I am impressed at Epson's incredible effort to help me. I have spent nearly four or five hours on the phone with them yesterday and today, during which we tried everything including removing and reinstalling the Status Monitor many times under various conditions. Epson even took the trouble to download for me by email additional copies of the files needed in case they had been corrupted on their server.

Unfortunately none of that has worked because every time it attempts to install, at the end of a longer time than expected, it results in an error message that one of the files being used has encountered an error, and then it gives a message that the Status Monitor has been installed - it has but it will not work when you try to turn it on and look at ink levels or other things it monitors. The printer prints fine and reacts as directed, it just will not tell me things like ink levels and system settings with the on screen Monitor. There is a bar graph thingy that shows in raw form the remaining ink in each cart on the LCD on the right front corner of the case, so I will not run out while testing it.

HOWEVER, we then tried installing the printer on my old Dell 420 which is also running Win XP Pro, but is much slower and has only 1gb of memory AND low and behold it installed immediately with not a hitch. I then proceeded to check the ink levels and to use the new Epson Utility Program2 to check on and install some new firmware that has been issued recently which is supposed to make the printer do a better job of high speed high resolution printing. The firmware installed just as the program said it would, and I now have the updated machine which still works fine. Figure that out?

While it was on the Dell machine, I tried out the system report functions and these are great fun and I would think would be of incredible help to a studio use of this printer where you were allocating costs to various accounts. One report tells you the exact amount of time, ink used, paper used, and all sorts of information about every single file you print on the machine. The ink report is accurate to the thousandth of a ML, i.e., 1.896ml was used to print a 12 x 15 image on Luster paper, which printing time took 4 minutes. It does not tell you the kind of paper used but does give the size so you can compute the square inches or feet or mm of paper used for the ink. The dimension is the paper size, not the image size.

Another report tells you within five ***** the amount of ink in each cartridge. For those of you who wonder how much ink it took to charge the heads, the answer is "a lot." When the Status Monitor did show up in color on the Dell machine, it showed that I had used perhaps 30% of each cartridge to do the charging. The ink report also shows the date of manufacture, the date of expiration and the initial amount of ink in each one, 110ml.

There is another report that tells you all about the settings of the cutter, drying time of ink set, suction pressure, and other adjustments, all of which can be set from the menu on the LCD on the top. These adjustments and settings, while more complex are not unlike those available on the better laser printers, and I think would be important mostly for trouble shooting. What is amazing though is that these settings can be individually set for up to 10 different kinds of papers for use with the printer. Talk about choice !!

In my next message I will address the profiles available and some things about print quality and speed, still not tested a lot by me, but I am working on them. Do send along any questions you think would be helpful to all, but bear in mind that Fred will probably kill me if I keep posting long messages like this one and some of the earlier ones.

Bottom line, in spite of the Status Monitor installation problems, I am most impressed by this machine and think it will make a lot of difference in my prints and the time and cost of printing them in larger sizes. I am glad that I also recently bought an R800 for small prints and CD/DVDs however, since this machine is so flexible it takes a lot of time to set and reset paper sizes in the tray, and it does not work with less than 8 x 11 paper, according to the manual, although I have not tried, not wanting to jam it while testing.

-Gerry




Mar 30, 2004 at 11:06 PM
gervaise
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p.1 #15 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


PROFILES - One final post for tonight, per some requests.

I am also impressed at the very large number of paper profiles that Epson has provided with this model, unlike the R800 which really ticked me off since it gives you a skimpy group of four and not by name, just by class - smooth, rough, etc.

There are about 20 individual profiles, some for the same paper finish, but in a different thickness, like Premium Glossy and Prem Glossy 250. These profiles are automatically installed in the proper place on the PC at least, when you load and install the 4000 printer driver. You need do nothing, unlike the 2200 where the profiles are associated with the PIM II files and have to be installed separately.

This is a quick list of them, pardon the spelling, my fingers are getting tired:
Arch Matte, Enhanced Matte, Photo Quality (whatever that is?), Prem Glossy and PG 250, Prem Luster and 250, Prem SemiGloss and 250, Prem SemiMatte and 250, Single Wgt Matte, Smooth Fine Art, Textured Fine Art, Watercolor and several marked MK4 after the paper finish. I assume the latter are for folks who use the fast print ink function that lets you load the CMYK colors on both sides which reduces the print time by almost half.

I am still unsure what one is supposed to use for the Ultrasmooth Epson paper since it is a Smooth Fine Art paper, but the Tech Support folks could not tell me which profile was intended for it. The Tech Manager promised to have someone get back to me.

Thus far I have printed only color, although when I complete this posting I am going to go and do a b&w shot that I did just the other day on the 2200 so I have a comparison print to check it with in some 8 x 10 images that I simply desaturated in PS CS. On the 2200 and semigloss the b&w was a bit magenta in tone. I am interested to see if the 4000 does better.

I have printed so far on Luster, Ultrasmooth, Prem Semigloss and PremGlossy in 8 x 11 and both 11 x 17 and 13 x 19. I have not yet opened my new roll of 17 inch Ultrasmooth but did print one 17 x 22 on Inkjetart's Ultrasmooth look-a-like, which came out fine, although a bit dark. I attribute that to the fact the IJA admits their paper is "similar" to US but lack a final secret coating that Epson uses. The difference seems to be that Epsons paper absorbs the ink a bit less and at first the IJA paper looks too dark but when it dries overnight it looks about the same. Thus far, I think I prefer the Epson paper but it costs twice as much and in a 17 x 22 size that is a lot of $$.

The Tech Manager said these profiles were created with great care using the principles that Bill Atkinson had suggested in his various postings around the net, although the Manager was careful to say they were done by Epson, not Atkinson, whose ideas they appreciated very much. Apparently there was some flap recently when someone called the new Epson posted 2200 profiles that did not work too well, "Atkinson profiles."

Will look for other questions and try to post again tomorrow.

-Gerry



Mar 30, 2004 at 11:36 PM
gervaise
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p.1 #16 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


One final comment for the night, I have run a couple of tests of b&w images previously printed on a 2200 and an R800, which had an almost acceptable magenta cast to them, but which on the 4000 are pretty dead-on gray images with no magenta cast. This shows particularly well on one print since it is of the Mojave desert and it is nice to see it a light, desert gray and not slightly pinkish gray.

That is good news since the magenta in such prints always annoyed me because I could never get rid of it - one reason I bought an R800, in hopes it would be better, which it is, but not much. The R800 does make the print glossier and therefore more "photographic" in character, because of the gloss applicator it uses.

-Gerry



Mar 31, 2004 at 05:26 AM
wtlloyd
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p.1 #17 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


gervaise wrote:
Very pleased to see that my comments have been helpful to others, as I always appreciate the wonderful spirit of cooperation I find here when I have problems or questions.

. Do send along any questions you think would be helpful to all, but bear in mind that Fred will probably kill me if I keep posting long messages like this one and some of the earlier ones.
-Gerry





No way! This is some of the most interesting reading and pertinent information this or any site has seen since early reports on the Canon MkII. Please keep on for a few more days at least! I'd really be suprised if Fred didn't appreciate this, actually - he's got to be getting a lot of new traffic here due to redirects from other sites.



Mar 31, 2004 at 08:43 AM
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p.1 #18 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


To address the status monitor problem: I've a 2200 and had the same problem with the installation of the status monitor to the extent that it froze my system when running. After long talks with upper level Epson tech support (a very nice experience as well) we got down to the motherboard on my home built system - an Asus A7A266 running W2K - and I was told that there was an incompatibility with the motherboard USB hardware and their drivers - no work around. So I've not installed the monitor and life is tolerable. I have since acquired a Sony notebook with XP and the status monitor works fine on that system.


Mar 31, 2004 at 08:55 AM
palexy
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p.1 #19 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Thank you Gerry for sharing your experiences. I'm looking forward to a 4000 in my future.

If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest checking to see if you're running a software firewall that is blocking the Status Monitor. Based on my experience with my 2200, I've found that both Zone Alarm and Norton Internet Security can block Status Monitor. If it worked with USB but not firewire, I would have also checked the network connections settings in XP to see if the firewire port is firewalled in XP.

I look forward to your updates.

Paul



Mar 31, 2004 at 09:13 AM
mozartwon
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p.1 #20 · Epson 4000 Report - First Impressions


Gerry, you mentioned this in your article but I was not clear as to what you would recommend.
Would you first install the software and drivers that came with the printer, or would you wait and download the updates from Epson's web site and use those first? Thanks!

Charles



Mar 31, 2004 at 10:03 AM
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