roanjohnnyc:
Leica might be far ahead in terms of body and optics, but they are still way behind in terms of features and functionality.
I thought that taking pictures is the main (if not only) purpose of a photo camera.
To be honest those "features and functionality" are turning me away from the current DSLR cameras. I am on a waiting list for a new DSLR but am thinking that I do not really need or want the features it offers. I need simplicity now and let younger ones to enjoy all the gimmicks. Getting ready for a change.
I'm a Leica M8 owner and have gotten plenty of satisfaction out of that camera and plan on keeping it. There are plenty of fans on the Leica User Forum queuing up to buy the M9. Many will be selling there M8's. The $7000.00 price tag for the M9 is more than I can stomach. My limit on a camera body was spent on the M8 ($4800.00) brand new, almost three years ago. I won't engage in Leica insanity any longer. The X1, I find should not have been priced over $1000.00. Neither of these cameras interest me solely because of their price tags. I will wait for the M9 to hit the used markets (I'm in no rush). Thankfully I recently picked up a Canon 5D II which has really taken me by surprise. I'm using it a lot more than I ever did the Canon 5D. The difference in price between the 5D II and the M9 is astronomical. I fear Leica is fast becoming an elitist brand and the little Red circle is gaining the wrong kind of reputation. Not at all what attracted me to Leica in the first place. I wonder what Henri Cartier Bresson would think of the current Leica price for an M9. I sincerely doubt he would have appreciated the frame lines, so much for progress.
mfurman wrote:
I thought that taking pictures is the main (if not only) purpose of a photo camera.
To be honest those "features and functionality" are turning me away from the current DSLR cameras. I am on a waiting list for a new DSLR but am thinking that I do not really need or want the features it offers. I need simplicity now and let younger ones to enjoy all the gimmicks. Getting ready for a change.
I'm with you on that one. I have a lot of respect for Leica in sticking to their decades-long formula of KISS (tho not a lot of respect for their prices). No-doubt there's plenty of the latest technology under the hood, but the UI looks like it remains wonderfully clutter-free, as it should. Anyone who complains that a Leica M lacks the bells and whistles of modern dSLRs just doesn't understand what the M-series is all about IMO.
If I had a spare $10K for an M9 and couple of lenses I'd happily ditch all my Canon gear and large camera bags for good
Perhaps its because the samples are from a pre-production camera but I'm not impressed at all. They appear veiled and lack a certain presence that, even with all its faults, M8 images seemed to have. Also, if you really look at the corners, particularly in shadow areas, the noise at even ISO 160 is terrible. Perhaps this is due to extreme vignetting compensation control such that the corners on a FF rangefinder must have a few stops of exposure compensation?
mfurman wrote:
I thought that taking pictures is the main (if not only) purpose of a photo camera.
To be honest those "features and functionality" are turning me away from the current DSLR cameras. I am on a waiting list for a new DSLR but am thinking that I do not really need or want the features it offers. I need simplicity now and let younger ones to enjoy all the gimmicks. Getting ready for a change.
Of course it is.... but the competition does the same thing + more features for less!! The purist in me would love to shoot with a Leica, but the realist in me just cannot justify the price........and the enthusiast in me is wondering why the new M9 does not do video for the price
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Perhaps its because the samples are from a pre-production camera but I'm not impressed at all. They appear veiled and lack a certain presence that, even with all its faults, M8 images seemed to have. Also, if you really look at the corners, particularly in shadow areas, the noise at even ISO 160 is terrible. Perhaps this is due to extreme vignetting compensation control such that the corners on a FF rangefinder must have a few stops of exposure compensation?
I agree based on the DPReview samples, but DPR is notorious for terrible looking sample photos. The clarity of the M9 samples is very poor, although the noise doesn't bother me too much. Not a single one of those photos is what I would consider 'sharp'. They were probably taken as JPEGs, which few M9 photographers in their right mind would use.
pipspeak wrote:
Apparently no-one told Leica that technology is supposed to get cheaper as it matures, not more expensive.
Couldn't agree more. Leica should learn a thing or 2 from Apple - a company that is now more aggressive in slashing prices to compete with it's PC counterpart.
............and if they are smart, maybe they can lose a bit on the body and gain a lot when people start buying their lenses.
Interestingly, Sean Reid claims that though the X1 was desined by Leica, it is actually built in Japan but not by Panasonic. Looking at that lens as well as some of the features such as the control wheel for manual focus, my bet is that Sigma builds this camera for Leica though the sensor appears to be from Sony.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Interestingly, Sean Reid claims that though the X1 was desined by Leica, it is actually built in Japan but not by Panasonic. Looking at that lens as well as some of the features such as the control wheel for manual focus, my bet is that Sigma builds this camera for Leica though the sensor appears to be from Sony.
Leica does claim that it is "Made in Germany" -- but that could mean many things. If they affix the red dot and put it in the box in Germany, they can pretty much say that it's made in Germany. And "designed" can mean many things as well.I have no doubt that it is "mostly" made, and it's internals designed, in Japan. I sincerely doubt that Sigma is the maker. Sigma has very little experience in producing compact digital (or film) cameras, save for their DP1/2, which in terms of build quality and design savvy, are quite unconvincing -- and they have a direct competitor product They would not be the go-to choice for this. The distance wheel at the top is fairly typical for a point and shoot with manual control. (Contax T2, Leica CM, for example). I would not be surprised if Kyocera was involved, or Panasonic still might have some involvement, in spite of it not having a 4/3rds sensor. It's probably not Sony, Canon, Olympus, or Nikon, so who is left -- Fuji, Espon, Casio, Cosina, Sharp, Pentax? Fuji, perhaps?
Lotusm50 wrote:
Leica does claim that it is "Made in Germany" -- but that could mean many things. If they affix the red dot and put it in the box in Germany, they can pretty much say that it's made in Germany. And "designed" can mean many things as well.I have no doubt that it is "mostly" made, and it's internals designed, in Japan. I sincerely doubt that Sigma is the maker. Sigma has very little experience in producing compact digital (or film) cameras, save for their DP1/2, which in terms of build quality and design savvy, are quite unconvincing -- and they have a direct competitor product They would not be the go-to choice for this. The distance wheel at the top is fairly typical for a point and shoot with manual control. (Contax T2, Leica CM, for example). I would not be surprised if Kyocera was involved, or Panasonic still might have some involvement, in spite of it not having a 4/3rds sensor. It's probably not Sony, Canon, Olympus, or Nikon, so who is left -- Fuji, Espon, Casio, Cosina, Sharp, Pentax? Fuji, perhaps?
I thought Kyocera was completely out of the camera business. Yes, it may not be Sigma but then who? Cosina has a relationship with Zeiss but who knows, perhaps they had a hand in conjunction with someone like Epson. I don't know but I sure would like to. The sensor used is possibly the same Sony sensor as that used in the NIkon D300 so the image quality has the potential to be outstanding. My bet is that we see a similarly speced camera appear within the next few months from a japanese company. When that happens, I guess we will have our answer.
I can only dream.