Yeah I think Kodak will have to overcome some serious limitations with large CCD's and heat. Either that or Leica will have to switch to a CMOS supplier. The X1 employing a Sony-fabbed CMOS sensor might be a sign of things to come.
Exactly, the glass I bought for my film M's ten or more years ago is still the current APO or ASPH and is probably worth considerably more than it was back then. If you have the glass the body is a small sum in comparison.
The M9 is a bit out of my budget currently I will just have to make do with the M8 for the next year or so. If you don't have the Leica glass, a M9 and glass could be a big hit to the pocketbook.
thrice wrote:
I think I'm gonna get a 90 elmarit. I'll probably need the extra stop of DOF to focus accurately. Plus it's much less weighty, and much cheaper. Other than the stop it's a match for the apo in terms of colour/sharpness/everything.
It seems Leica have some big supply issues for the time being, 8 this week for the whole US?! I hope they're just gearing up for the big flood (but I doubt it). Hope I see mine before the end of October!
EDIT:
Just ordered an EX condition 90/2.8 Elmarit-M, latest E46 version in chrome... for $349
My lens kit is all paid for and complete now! So all I have to do is wait for Leica to make the darn camera!...Show more →
brainiac wrote:
I agree. Liveview will be even more useful on a rangefinder than on a DSLR. It gives the rangefinder camera a way of overcoming every single one of the limitations of the... fact that it's a rangefinder. You get TTL, off-centre focussing, accurate framing, d.o.f. preview, the whole works. It would enable use of long lenses, macros, ultrawideangles without hotshoe finders, even zooms. Maybe they could include some shutter speed/aperture/iso info below the image too. No camera design has more to gain from partnering with liveview than the rangefinder. That's why it's such a serious omission from this camera. Still, maybe the M10 will have it... ;-)...Show more →
the limitation is with the sensor
a Full Frame Transfer CCD wont do liveview, it has to be Interline Transfer
In interline transfer type are image sensor wherein photogenerated charge is transferred from a pixel into a charge coupled dvice (CCD) or shift register. The CCD structure is typically composed of two or more overlapping levels of polysilicon electrodes associated with each row of pixels. In accordance with invention, a CCD with simplified structure and hence improved manufacturability is described. The CCD utilizes ion implanted barrier regions, which may be self-aligned such as described by Losee et al. U.S. Pat. No. 4,613,402, to produce a device with single polysilicon electrode associated with each pixel.
another aspect of interline transfer chips is they can have electronic shutters
this is also desirable for liveview, but usually more associated with compact cams, or multi sensor rigs.
I am struggling with Adorama's ordering/email system, things are back-ordered and I have suggested substitutions but see no evidence of said changes, and have to wait 24hrs+ for each e-mail reply. Then I get replies to my older e-mails from different people who're saying they're making the changes (which were already made) for me... It's getting quite tedious.
But I'll be sure to let you know what it looks like when it arrives I did e-mail prior to ordering it asking about the condition but no one has yet replied to that query and I didn't want someone else to snap it up. According to their rating system it should have spotless glass so I'm hopeful.
Not sure if you guys understood me correctly, I said stick with a DSLR instead because, the moment you implement LiveView on a RF, it is no longer a RF, no matter how useful Live View is for RF.
What's the point of the RF focusing mechanism or RF patch if you can just use the LCD to frame off-centre and TTL like Richard mentioned? Who's gonna put their eye up to the finder anymore? And if they can focus without the RF mechanism does it need to be there? If you can take it off then how is your shiny new M9 (or M10 if you'd like) different from a Lux series camera? (I'm aware of interchangeable lenses and manual focusing)
I guess some of us in the end only care about the results, but I tend to respect the process of getting to the results as well, buying a RF to use it like a P&S just because it has a wicked sensor is not something I would imagine myself doing. YMMV of course.
Leon Noel wrote:
Not sure if you guys understood me correctly, I said stick with a DSLR instead because, the moment you implement LiveView on a RF, it is no longer a RF, no matter how useful Live View is for RF.
Only if you are stupid enough not to use the RF when you can or want, just because there are other possibilities too.
What's the point of the RF focusing mechanism or RF patch if you can just use the LCD to frame off-centre and TTL like Richard mentioned? Who's gonna put their eye up to the finder anymore? And if they can focus without the RF mechanism does it need to be there? If you can take it off then how is your shiny new M9 (or M10 if you'd like) different from a Lux series camera? (I'm aware of interchangeable lenses and manual focusing)
The same question is relevant for SLR:s. What do you prefer, a nice viewfinder or a small screen?
I guess some of us in the end only care about the results, but I tend to respect the process of getting to the results as well, buying a RF to use it like a P&S just because it has a wicked sensor is not something I would imagine myself doing. YMMV of course.
You clearly seem to not be one of those that find any use of an RF camera, if that's how you see it. You don't have to use LV just because it's there. I wouldn't, in any other situation than when it was the only option. I hate liveview, but it's very useful. Especially for a non-SLR camera.
Ehrm, you are trolling now right? You are not being serious?
Imagine you use the rf-viewfinder for 98% of what you do, loving the huge, bright viewfinder and RF-focusing, the size of the camera, the lenses.. BUT, you kind of want to do adapter-macro now and then, then live view would be priceless, a nice addition, and you don't have to use it if you don't want to. I use liveview maybe in 1/1000 shots on my D700, but it is a nice feature when i need it, and on a m-camera, having that capability is great. And it would ofcourse not make people not bring their eye up to the finder anymore. having the camera at arms lenght squinting at a zoomed in live view screen is no match for super-fast rf-focus trough the viewfinder... So yes, you do need the RF-mechanism.. So you don't buy a 6999 USD camera to use it as a P&S, and i think you really do know this and just want to be provocative or something.
Leon Noel wrote:
What's the point of the RF focusing mechanism or RF patch if you can just use the LCD to frame off-centre and TTL like Richard mentioned? Who's gonna put their eye up to the finder anymore? And if they can focus without the RF mechanism does it need to be there? If you can take it off then how is your shiny new M9 (or M10 if you'd like) different from a Lux series camera? (I'm aware of interchangeable lenses and manual focusing)
Ahm, do you get a DSLR to your eye even if it has liveview ? If yes, than that's going to happen with a RF also. Liveview is not a great way to shoot imho, I am used to stick a camera in my face and not in front of me in order to be able to see the display. So a M with liveview would be the same as with a DSLR in this regard : another focus aid tool for those times when you need it. And frankly, I don't see it comming if I am not on a tripod and want a shallow DOF.
slungu wrote:
Ahm, do you get a DSLR to your eye even if it has liveview ? If yes, than that's going to happen with a RF also. Liveview is not a great way to shoot imho, I am used to stick a camera in my face and not in front of me in order to be able to see the display. So a M with liveview would be the same as with a DSLR in this regard : another focus aid tool for those times when you need it. And frankly, I don't see it comming if I am not on a tripod and want a shallow DOF....Show more →
Live view would be very helpful with a M. For example, with wide-angle lenses where a external finder is needed, Live View would be great. You could actually see the wide angle "effect", framing would be accurate and I wouldn't have to spend money on expensive finders. On longer lenses - say 90mm and above - nailing focus at the wider apertures would be much easier. I'm not saying Live View would replace traditional viewfinder focusing, but it sure would be nice to have.
bugaglo wrote:
Very nice price, if it arrive yet? I took black one for more money, and not silver, I think it was mistake
You made no mistake! It arrived and it's the old 60's Elmarit (11129) they had it listed (and pictured) as the modern Elmarit 11808 obviously they have to sort it out but who knows how they'll do it. I've e-mailed them.
John Black wrote:
Live view would be very helpful with a M. For example, with wide-angle lenses where a external finder is needed, Live View would be great. You could actually see the wide angle "effect", framing would be accurate and I wouldn't have to spend money on expensive finders. On longer lenses - say 90mm and above - nailing focus at the wider apertures would be much easier. I'm not saying Live View would replace traditional viewfinder focusing, but it sure would be nice to have.
The cons are the carcass would have to be larger and the battery life would suffer or a larger battery would be needed (i.e., a larger carcass). I would prefer they deal with the super wides by improving the VF. I'm sure there are many other technical issues known to Leica.
John Black wrote:
Live view would be very helpful with a M. For example, with wide-angle lenses where a external finder is needed, Live View would be great. You could actually see the wide angle "effect", framing would be accurate and I wouldn't have to spend money on expensive finders. On longer lenses - say 90mm and above - nailing focus at the wider apertures would be much easier. I'm not saying Live View would replace traditional viewfinder focusing, but it sure would be nice to have.
John I totally agree. If it's a function that could be implemented without much cost (I think however, with a CCD sensor live view implementation would be extremely power consuming). It would provide accurate focus for landscape shooting without the external finders- that alone is worth hundreds, if not thousands of dollars who shoot <28mm on the M9 and would otherwise need a finder.
