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Archive 2009Canon EOS 7D Master thread
p.49 #1Canon EOS 7D Master thread
i don't understand why canon can't just give us the option of "I want 5, 7 shots". Saving it for the 1D series seems rather silly for what should be a simple firmware plug.
Couldn't agree more!
Sep 14, 2009 at 08:15 PM
p.49 #2Canon EOS 7D Master thread
randomlinh wrote:
-/+5EV, plus for bracketing you can actually do -/+8EV!Are we still limited to the three actuations when bracketing? I think Nikon is at 5 or 7. I have been doing some HDR stuff and can see the need for both the wider range but also more shots between the range to make a real good HDR. This is a move in the right direction.Yes... just three shots. You can shoot one sequence at +1,0,-1 and then reload to shoot another at +2,0,-2 and discard the extra 0 during PP. Set them in C-1 and C-2.i don't understand why canon can't just give us the option of "I want 5, 7 shots". Saving it for the 1D series seems rather silly for what should be a simple firmware plug.
It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
John McLean wrote
Ransome wrote
Pixel Perfect wrote
Beni wrote
Is there only +/-2 stops of exposure compensation still with the 7D?It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Sep 15, 2009 at 02:12 AM
p.49 #3Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Yakim Peled wrote:
-/+5EV, plus for bracketing you can actually do -/+8EV!Are we still limited to the three actuations when bracketing? I think Nikon is at 5 or 7. I have been doing some HDR stuff and can see the need for both the wider range but also more shots between the range to make a real good HDR. This is a move in the right direction.Yes... just three shots. You can shoot one sequence at +1,0,-1 and then reload to shoot another at +2,0,-2 and discard the extra 0 during PP. Set them in C-1 and C-2.i don't understand why canon can't just give us the option of "I want 5, 7 shots". Saving it for the 1D series seems rather silly for what should be a simple firmware plug.It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
And anyway this is a detail compared to upgrading at last the AF!
It is easy enough really to do -3, -2, -1 then do 0, 1, 2
randomlinh wrote
John McLean wrote
Ransome wrote
Pixel Perfect wrote
Beni wrote
Is there only +/-2 stops of exposure compensation still with the 7D?Happy shooting,
Yakim.
And anyway this is a detail compared to upgrading at last the AF!
It is easy enough really to do -3, -2, -1 then do 0, 1, 2
Sep 15, 2009 at 02:47 AM
p.49 #4Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Yakim Peled wrote:
It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
They have also reserved spot metering tied to individual AF points for the 1D series. Since there are 63 (?) metering zones with each zone covered by 1 AF point, they can easily implement this but they choose not to.
Maybe this is reserved for 7D Mk2?
Or maybe someone can break the firmware?
It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
They have also reserved spot metering tied to individual AF points for the 1D series. Since there are 63 (?) metering zones with each zone covered by 1 AF point, they can easily implement this but they choose not to.
Maybe this is reserved for 7D Mk2?
Or maybe someone can break the firmware?
Sep 15, 2009 at 03:31 AM
p.49 #5Canon EOS 7D Master thread
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
Sep 15, 2009 at 04:14 AM
p.49 #6Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Exposure bracketing brings up the concept of HDR, and how one wants to implement it. I don't think it's a trivial function point, as many photos could be improved with better shadow detail and highlights which aren't blown out.
I'd really like to see more "in-camera" attention paid to HDR, as opposed to doing this mostly in PP. That capability and the beloved DEP functionality (which Canon has apparently thrown away), are sorely missed in real-world shooting.
I'd really like to see more "in-camera" attention paid to HDR, as opposed to doing this mostly in PP. That capability and the beloved DEP functionality (which Canon has apparently thrown away), are sorely missed in real-world shooting.
Sep 15, 2009 at 04:21 AM
p.49 #7Canon EOS 7D Master thread
thw2 wrote:
They have also reserved spot metering tied to individual AF points for the 1D series. Since there are 63 (?) metering zones with each zone covered by 1 AF point, they can easily implement this but they choose not to.
Maybe this is reserved for 7D Mk2?
Or maybe someone can break the firmware?
This surprises me. Coming from Nikon, this is a feature that I find of great value. A typical example is a portrait where the subject is far off center.
They have also reserved spot metering tied to individual AF points for the 1D series. Since there are 63 (?) metering zones with each zone covered by 1 AF point, they can easily implement this but they choose not to.
Maybe this is reserved for 7D Mk2?
Or maybe someone can break the firmware?
This surprises me. Coming from Nikon, this is a feature that I find of great value. A typical example is a portrait where the subject is far off center.
Sep 15, 2009 at 05:09 AM
p.49 #8Canon EOS 7D Master thread
ExxWhy wrote:
I just called Loomis Camera in Elyria, OH and started a waiting list. They are hoping to get them in the next 7-10 days, but who knows if that's based on good info or wishful thinking. Time will tell. Nice people there anyway.
Let's see. You spend half an hour choosing perspective, setting up a tripod, etc and can't waste another three second to get your 6 shots?
I just called Loomis Camera in Elyria, OH and started a waiting list. They are hoping to get them in the next 7-10 days, but who knows if that's based on good info or wishful thinking. Time will tell. Nice people there anyway.
Let's see. You spend half an hour choosing perspective, setting up a tripod, etc and can't waste another three second to get your 6 shots?
Sep 15, 2009 at 05:32 AM
p.49 #9Canon EOS 7D Master thread
thw2 wrote:
They have also reserved spot metering tied to individual AF points for the 1D series.
That's exactly what I said.
thw2 wrote:
Since there are 63 (?) metering zones with each zone covered by 1 AF point
There are indeed 63 metering zones but only 19 AF points. Thus, 19 metering zones have one AF point in them and the rest don't.
thw2 wrote:
they can easily implement this but they choose not to.
Again, that's exactly what I said.
thw2 wrote:
Maybe this is reserved for 7D Mk2?
Maybe.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Yakim Peled wrote
It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.That's exactly what I said.
thw2 wrote:
Since there are 63 (?) metering zones with each zone covered by 1 AF point
There are indeed 63 metering zones but only 19 AF points. Thus, 19 metering zones have one AF point in them and the rest don't.
thw2 wrote:
they can easily implement this but they choose not to.
Again, that's exactly what I said.
thw2 wrote:
Maybe this is reserved for 7D Mk2?
Maybe.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Sep 15, 2009 at 05:44 AM
p.49 #10Canon EOS 7D Master thread
keithreeder wrote:
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
Whole heartedly agree. When Canon designed the 7d, they concentrated on making it better as a sports/action camera, not a landscape camera (they actually make another camera they'd prefer you buy for that). This isn't to say that it cannot do landscape, portraits, and still life; they simply concentrated on adding the conveniences there. Allowing the spot to follow the AF point would be really nice, but the key in my mind is the AF - which is something that is a lot harder to compensate for. As mentioned, you can manually compensate for the 3 shot bracket limit. Do 1 burst of 3 shots at -2 EC and then do another burst of three at +1 - continuing the process gives you an unlimited range if needed, and all you have to do is turn the little wheel on the back.
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
Whole heartedly agree. When Canon designed the 7d, they concentrated on making it better as a sports/action camera, not a landscape camera (they actually make another camera they'd prefer you buy for that). This isn't to say that it cannot do landscape, portraits, and still life; they simply concentrated on adding the conveniences there. Allowing the spot to follow the AF point would be really nice, but the key in my mind is the AF - which is something that is a lot harder to compensate for. As mentioned, you can manually compensate for the 3 shot bracket limit. Do 1 burst of 3 shots at -2 EC and then do another burst of three at +1 - continuing the process gives you an unlimited range if needed, and all you have to do is turn the little wheel on the back.
Sep 15, 2009 at 07:31 AM
p.49 #11Canon EOS 7D Master thread
keithreeder wrote:
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
Keith, respectfully, I must disagree with you on the issue of metering tied to the AF zone.
If you are taking photos of people in uncontrolled lighting, for example, sometimes they will present an expression that you want to capture. It totally ruins the moment if you call out to them "wait, hold that while I meter and recompose".
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
Keith, respectfully, I must disagree with you on the issue of metering tied to the AF zone.
If you are taking photos of people in uncontrolled lighting, for example, sometimes they will present an expression that you want to capture. It totally ruins the moment if you call out to them "wait, hold that while I meter and recompose".
Sep 15, 2009 at 07:55 AM
p.49 #12Canon EOS 7D Master thread
keithreeder wrote:
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
So why is 1D/s series and Nikon have it since it is so "niche"?
The truth is though, that both of these - expanded bracketing range and metering tied to the AF zone - are arguably fairly "niche" requirements that most camera users will rarely need.
So if something has to be left out of the 7D I can see why it's these rather than something of more universal value...
So why is 1D/s series and Nikon have it since it is so "niche"?
Sep 15, 2009 at 08:13 AM
p.49 #13Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Yakim Peled wrote:
-/+5EV, plus for bracketing you can actually do -/+8EV!Are we still limited to the three actuations when bracketing? I think Nikon is at 5 or 7. I have been doing some HDR stuff and can see the need for both the wider range but also more shots between the range to make a real good HDR. This is a move in the right direction.Yes... just three shots. You can shoot one sequence at +1,0,-1 and then reload to shoot another at +2,0,-2 and discard the extra 0 during PP. Set them in C-1 and C-2.i don't understand why canon can't just give us the option of "I want 5, 7 shots". Saving it for the 1D series seems rather silly for what should be a simple firmware plug.It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
While I agree with you Yakim that it is a business decision by Canon to differentiate models, it's short-sighted IMHO because the competition will toss in these easy-to-add features.
randomlinh wrote
John McLean wrote
Ransome wrote
Pixel Perfect wrote
Beni wrote
Is there only +/-2 stops of exposure compensation still with the 7D?Happy shooting,
Yakim.
While I agree with you Yakim that it is a business decision by Canon to differentiate models, it's short-sighted IMHO because the competition will toss in these easy-to-add features.
Sep 15, 2009 at 08:20 AM
p.49 #14Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Alek Komarnits wrote:
Are we still limited to the three actuations when bracketing? I think Nikon is at 5 or 7. I have been doing some HDR stuff and can see the need for both the wider range but also more shots between the range to make a real good HDR. This is a move in the right direction.Yes... just three shots. You can shoot one sequence at +1,0,-1 and then reload to shoot another at +2,0,-2 and discard the extra 0 during PP. Set them in C-1 and C-2.i don't understand why canon can't just give us the option of "I want 5, 7 shots". Saving it for the 1D series seems rather silly for what should be a simple firmware plug.It's far from silly. They want to differentiate the models and that makes perfect business sense. Think of it. If the 7D would mirror the 1-series save from sensor size it would lower the 1-series cameras sales.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.While I agree with you Yakim that it is a business decision by Canon to differentiate models, it's short-sighted IMHO because the competition will toss in these easy-to-add features.
Once the first "official" firmware update appears, I'm wondering how many "unofficial" firmware updates will become available from 3rd party vendors and individuals who are willing to risk voiding their warranty in order to possibly get some needed functionality which doesn't require hardware?
Yakim Peled wrote
randomlinh wrote
John McLean wrote
Ransome wrote
Pixel Perfect wrote
-/+5EV, plus for bracketing you can actually do -/+8EV!Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Once the first "official" firmware update appears, I'm wondering how many "unofficial" firmware updates will become available from 3rd party vendors and individuals who are willing to risk voiding their warranty in order to possibly get some needed functionality which doesn't require hardware?
Sep 15, 2009 at 08:30 AM
p.49 #15Canon EOS 7D Master thread
longisland.km, Ron Hew, read Tim's comment at the top of the page.
Ron, this whole "Nikon has it, so we should have it" line of thought smacks more of kids in a playschool grabbing toys off each other just so they can say they have them, rather than of any legitimate need for a given photographic function.
The fact that 1D bodies have some functions that xxD - and the 7D - don't have, can easily be seen as confirmation that they are seen as appropriate to a certain target audience: you might not agree, but their presence in the 1D bodies surely doesn't disprove the idea of them being "niche".
Most photographers don't need a pro body, so you can actually argue that everything about them is intended, in the first instance, to cater to a specific subset of the market.
A niche in other words...
That's not to say that we might not covet some of these functions, but the fact remains that - whether for cost or for product differentiation reasons - Canon has seen fit to keep some functions out of non 1D bodies, and yet I'm willing to bet any money that for the vast majority of us, the inability to extend exposure bracketing beyond the arbitrary limit imposed by Canon, or the inability to link exposure to AF point, doesn't hurt our photography one little bit.
I couldn't care less that Nikon does things differently - my Canon cameras still work really well despite Nikon's business decisions.
Hell, I'd love "proper" Auto ISO and native AF at f/8 in my 40D and in the 7D (looks like the 7D has the Auto ISO): believe me, I "need" these every bit as much as anyone might need wider exposure bracketing or AF point linked metering, but I don't cry myself to sleep over the lack of them.
Ron, this whole "Nikon has it, so we should have it" line of thought smacks more of kids in a playschool grabbing toys off each other just so they can say they have them, rather than of any legitimate need for a given photographic function.
The fact that 1D bodies have some functions that xxD - and the 7D - don't have, can easily be seen as confirmation that they are seen as appropriate to a certain target audience: you might not agree, but their presence in the 1D bodies surely doesn't disprove the idea of them being "niche".
Most photographers don't need a pro body, so you can actually argue that everything about them is intended, in the first instance, to cater to a specific subset of the market.
A niche in other words...
That's not to say that we might not covet some of these functions, but the fact remains that - whether for cost or for product differentiation reasons - Canon has seen fit to keep some functions out of non 1D bodies, and yet I'm willing to bet any money that for the vast majority of us, the inability to extend exposure bracketing beyond the arbitrary limit imposed by Canon, or the inability to link exposure to AF point, doesn't hurt our photography one little bit.
I couldn't care less that Nikon does things differently - my Canon cameras still work really well despite Nikon's business decisions.
Hell, I'd love "proper" Auto ISO and native AF at f/8 in my 40D and in the 7D (looks like the 7D has the Auto ISO): believe me, I "need" these every bit as much as anyone might need wider exposure bracketing or AF point linked metering, but I don't cry myself to sleep over the lack of them.
Sep 15, 2009 at 08:45 AM
p.49 #16Canon EOS 7D Master thread
For the spot metering, you have 3 options:
1. As you mentioned, focus and recompose (takes less than 1 half second)
2. Select manual exposure and meter before the people have that expression
3. Buy a camera that has af point linked spot meter (1d/s series or nikon)
To expect Canon to put all the features that the 1 series has into a $1700 body is naive; they have to leave SOME features reserved for the 1's. It's not that they can't put them in, require hardware, or that they are difficult to implement - it's that they have to leave enough feature room for demand of both the 7d and the 1's.
I would love to have the af-lnked spot metering as well, but I find the ability to reprogram the DOF preview to switch between oneshot and AI servo more useful for a sports/action body. That's the way it is for now, and perhaps it is annoying to you. I would suggest you wait for the next year or so, to see how Canon handles the next 5d, or maybe even releases the coveted fullframe 3d.
1. As you mentioned, focus and recompose (takes less than 1 half second)
2. Select manual exposure and meter before the people have that expression
3. Buy a camera that has af point linked spot meter (1d/s series or nikon)
To expect Canon to put all the features that the 1 series has into a $1700 body is naive; they have to leave SOME features reserved for the 1's. It's not that they can't put them in, require hardware, or that they are difficult to implement - it's that they have to leave enough feature room for demand of both the 7d and the 1's.
I would love to have the af-lnked spot metering as well, but I find the ability to reprogram the DOF preview to switch between oneshot and AI servo more useful for a sports/action body. That's the way it is for now, and perhaps it is annoying to you. I would suggest you wait for the next year or so, to see how Canon handles the next 5d, or maybe even releases the coveted fullframe 3d.
Sep 15, 2009 at 09:21 AM
p.49 #17Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Keith,
I think it is useful so it is not that "We must have it because others has it". You think it is "niche" because you only see what Canon is offering or may be you have no use for such features. Just because Canon only offer at their so call "Pro" body doesn't make this "niche"? YMMV
I think it is useful so it is not that "We must have it because others has it". You think it is "niche" because you only see what Canon is offering or may be you have no use for such features. Just because Canon only offer at their so call "Pro" body doesn't make this "niche"? YMMV
Sep 15, 2009 at 09:29 AM
p.49 #18Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Focus recompose will only lock the exposure in either evaluative mode or if you hit the * button. Personally I'd give my hind leg for a camera that had useable off center focus points with tied metering in spot metering as a wedding photographer. Shooting a backfocused bride in white where a +2 on the 5D still leaves you 2 stops underexposed and you use have to use manual and shoot by feel or fiddle around with menu settings and remembering to lock exposure gets tiring after a while...
Oh and the prevelant attitude on this forum of 'it's not a problem for me therefore it isn't a problem' is very tiring after a few years. Says more about the person writing it than the people they are usually attacking.
Edited on Sep 15, 2009 at 09:32 AM · View previous versions
Oh and the prevelant attitude on this forum of 'it's not a problem for me therefore it isn't a problem' is very tiring after a few years. Says more about the person writing it than the people they are usually attacking.
Edited on Sep 15, 2009 at 09:32 AM · View previous versions
Sep 15, 2009 at 09:29 AM
p.49 #19Canon EOS 7D Master thread
From http://www.canon-europe.com/cpn_eos7d/ ("Technical" tag, page 6):
During the exposure reading the 7D looks to see which [AF] points, in addition to the selected point, have achieved or almost achieved focus. This information lets the camera know which part of the image is the subject. It then takes metering readings from the zones corresponding to the AF points that have achieved (or almost achieved) focus and combines them with readings from all the other zones. This allows for consistent shot-to-shot exposure...
So - AF point priority metering.
During the exposure reading the 7D looks to see which [AF] points, in addition to the selected point, have achieved or almost achieved focus. This information lets the camera know which part of the image is the subject. It then takes metering readings from the zones corresponding to the AF points that have achieved (or almost achieved) focus and combines them with readings from all the other zones. This allows for consistent shot-to-shot exposure...
So - AF point priority metering.
Sep 15, 2009 at 09:29 AM
p.49 #20Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Adobes new RAW Converter ACR 5.5 can handle RAW EOS 7D Files
Lightrom 2.5 eventually to, can not test it
Edited on Sep 15, 2009 at 09:41 AM · View previous versions
Lightrom 2.5 eventually to, can not test it
Edited on Sep 15, 2009 at 09:41 AM · View previous versions
Sep 15, 2009 at 09:40 AM