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Archive 2009Canon EOS 7D Master thread
p.15 #1Canon EOS 7D Master thread
adam613 wrote:
Guys...
Do we know for sure that the 7D isn't the 1D IV? It's got a lot of the pro-level features...dual processors, weather-sealing, 8fps, 19-point AF...maybe APS-H sensors are no more and this is the new pro-level crop camera, and the next SLR announcement will be a 1DS IV in the spring with 80 bazillion MP on a full-frame sensor?
Actually I've wondered if this clears the way for the rumored merger of the 1d and 1ds, But that is another subject for another time.
Guys...
Do we know for sure that the 7D isn't the 1D IV? It's got a lot of the pro-level features...dual processors, weather-sealing, 8fps, 19-point AF...maybe APS-H sensors are no more and this is the new pro-level crop camera, and the next SLR announcement will be a 1DS IV in the spring with 80 bazillion MP on a full-frame sensor?
Actually I've wondered if this clears the way for the rumored merger of the 1d and 1ds, But that is another subject for another time.
Sep 02, 2009 at 03:57 PM
p.15 #2Canon EOS 7D Master thread
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video. If you are shooting at 24p you will run out of f-stops which will require these apertures or strong ND filters. You also run the risk of sensor dirt showing up in video recored at these apertures as well...
Sep 02, 2009 at 04:00 PM
p.15 #3Canon EOS 7D Master thread
PhotoMaximum wrote:
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video.
Even on an 8 MP APS-C body, you don't want to stop down past f/11. I know 'cos I've used these cameras for macro shooting.
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video.
Even on an 8 MP APS-C body, you don't want to stop down past f/11. I know 'cos I've used these cameras for macro shooting.
Sep 02, 2009 at 04:02 PM
p.15 #4Canon EOS 7D Master thread
adam613 wrote:
Guys...
Do we know for sure that the 7D isn't the 1D IV? It's got a lot of the pro-level features...dual processors, weather-sealing, 8fps, 19-point AF...maybe APS-H sensors are no more and this is the new pro-level crop camera, and the next SLR announcement will be a 1DS IV in the spring with 80 bazillion MP on a full-frame sensor?
Uhh...seriously?
Guys...
Do we know for sure that the 7D isn't the 1D IV? It's got a lot of the pro-level features...dual processors, weather-sealing, 8fps, 19-point AF...maybe APS-H sensors are no more and this is the new pro-level crop camera, and the next SLR announcement will be a 1DS IV in the spring with 80 bazillion MP on a full-frame sensor?
Uhh...seriously?
Sep 02, 2009 at 04:05 PM
p.15 #5Canon EOS 7D Master thread
PhotoMaximum wrote:
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video. If you are shooting at 24p you will run out of f-stops which will require these apertures or strong ND filters. You also run the risk of sensor dirt showing up in video recored at these apertures as well...
How so? The shutter speed on the video can go up to 1/4000 of a second, it would have to be awfully bright for you to have to shoot at f/16 and 1/4000...
Keep in mind that 1080P is like a 2MP image... so I would say that diffraction is not going to be a huge deal for video.
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video. If you are shooting at 24p you will run out of f-stops which will require these apertures or strong ND filters. You also run the risk of sensor dirt showing up in video recored at these apertures as well...
How so? The shutter speed on the video can go up to 1/4000 of a second, it would have to be awfully bright for you to have to shoot at f/16 and 1/4000...Keep in mind that 1080P is like a 2MP image... so I would say that diffraction is not going to be a huge deal for video.
Sep 02, 2009 at 04:19 PM
p.15 #6Canon EOS 7D Master thread
I thought that the preferred shutter speed setting for video on these DSLR's is twice the frame rate. Most 5DII video guys shoot video at 1/60th which is double the 30p native film rate. This is for NTSC land anyway. This is one the of the reasons that 5D users want the variable film rate that the 7D offers. Folks that live in PAL land are desperate for 25P as its more compatible with their TV system. You can shoot at higher shutter speeds but tests have shown that there is a cost with that. There is a new market in creating variable ND filters that let you dial in the light absorption rate, allowing you to set your preferred shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings without having to use a high shutter speed. Shooting at f/16 and beyond also increases the chances that sensor dirt will show in the video footage. User tests have also shown that picking ISO settings in multiples of 160 are preferred for video.
Sep 02, 2009 at 04:37 PM
p.15 #7Canon EOS 7D Master thread
EB-1 wrote:
Am I the only one not very impressed? The 50D already shows the limits of noise and resolution on the small sensor. The 7D will have more pixels, and even if the noise level is the same, what good is the difference?
EBH
I bought a 500D as a kick around and although I would say that it is a great little camera in lots of ways the lack of fine detail (without sharpening a lot) makes me wonder just what the 7d files are going to look like at 18 million pixels. Not sure what the equivalent pixel density would be on FF but it must be well above 30 million pixels and I`ve said for a while now that (using existing CMOS technology) 21 Million pixels is more or less at the break even point.
Am I the only one not very impressed? The 50D already shows the limits of noise and resolution on the small sensor. The 7D will have more pixels, and even if the noise level is the same, what good is the difference?
EBH
I bought a 500D as a kick around and although I would say that it is a great little camera in lots of ways the lack of fine detail (without sharpening a lot) makes me wonder just what the 7d files are going to look like at 18 million pixels. Not sure what the equivalent pixel density would be on FF but it must be well above 30 million pixels and I`ve said for a while now that (using existing CMOS technology) 21 Million pixels is more or less at the break even point.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:08 PM
p.15 #8Canon EOS 7D Master thread
With the 7D pixel density, a 1.0x crop is 46mp and a 1.3x crop is 29mp, but the DIGIC could not handle the data throughput needed at these resolutions and required fps.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:13 PM
p.15 #9Canon EOS 7D Master thread
PhotoMaximum wrote:
I thought that the preferred shutter speed setting for video on these DSLR's is twice the frame rate. Most 5DII video guys shoot video at 1/60th which is double the 30p native film rate. This is for NTSC land anyway. This is one the of the reasons that 5D users want the variable film rate that the 7D offers. Folks that live in PAL land are desperate for 25P as its more compatible with their TV system. You can shoot at higher shutter speeds but tests have shown that there is a cost with that. There is a new market...Show more →
Sensor dust was never really an issue and with the latest sensor cleaning mechanisms it becomes even less of a problem.
Definitely ND filters are needed, especially when shooting wider open.
Yes, you're right that the optimal shutter speed is from 1/30-1/60 of a second.
So on the brightest of days, if you follow the rule of sunny 16, that means that you'll be shooting at 1/100 at ISO 100- so to get to 1/60 you would have to stop down further or use an ND filter.
So yes, if you did not want to use higher shutter speeds on video (which you shouldn't, but the option is there) you would be diffraction limited (albeit on a 2MP file).
That being said, to see the effects of diffraction you would really have to pixel peep, and I really don't see how that's possible or reasonable on a 1920x1080 30p or 1280x720 60p movie.
I thought that the preferred shutter speed setting for video on these DSLR's is twice the frame rate. Most 5DII video guys shoot video at 1/60th which is double the 30p native film rate. This is for NTSC land anyway. This is one the of the reasons that 5D users want the variable film rate that the 7D offers. Folks that live in PAL land are desperate for 25P as its more compatible with their TV system. You can shoot at higher shutter speeds but tests have shown that there is a cost with that. There is a new market...Show more →
Sensor dust was never really an issue and with the latest sensor cleaning mechanisms it becomes even less of a problem.
Definitely ND filters are needed, especially when shooting wider open.
Yes, you're right that the optimal shutter speed is from 1/30-1/60 of a second.
So on the brightest of days, if you follow the rule of sunny 16, that means that you'll be shooting at 1/100 at ISO 100- so to get to 1/60 you would have to stop down further or use an ND filter.
So yes, if you did not want to use higher shutter speeds on video (which you shouldn't, but the option is there) you would be diffraction limited (albeit on a 2MP file).
That being said, to see the effects of diffraction you would really have to pixel peep, and I really don't see how that's possible or reasonable on a 1920x1080 30p or 1280x720 60p movie.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:15 PM
p.15 #10Canon EOS 7D Master thread
I love the newer sensor cleaning on the later cameras. Much better than my 5D mkI. I still notice quite a lot of videos that have dust etc in the footage. Its very noticeable with video. I think you see it more with wide lenses stopped down and with time lapse stuff where people are dragging the shutter speed.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:35 PM
p.15 #11Canon EOS 7D Master thread
timbop wrote:
Sorry guys i brought this up; i understand that in this kind of camera, with action and sport in mind, MF is wayyyyyyyyyyy more important to talk about! Good god...
By the way, i have a katz eye on my 10D and use many MF lenses, but give us a break, this is becoming pathetic.So, if action and sport is in mind, how is the new electronic overlay any more relevant than focusing screen options?
Pathetic or not, nobody has answered that question.You just really need attention, don't you? YOU ARE RIGHT, CANON MESSED UP AND THINKS THAT THE ONLY USEFUL SCREENS WERE THE GRIDLINE VARIETY, AND UNDERESTIMATED THE VAST MARKET FOR PRECISION FOCUS SCREENS. This huge blunder might put canon under, but hopefully katz eye will be able to buy them out in bankrupcy court.
There, your question was answered. And we all agree that you were right. You're a genious, and you should be running canon.
Is that enough attention for today?
+1
Tim, well said
cogitech wrote
d_chiesa wrote
d_chiesa wrote
Regarding AF servo tracking, i think the camera needs the mirror to be down in order to AF. Blackout time on the 7D seems like that of xxD cameras, not like the 1D. So at 8 fps, i thik it's very optimistic to think it will track well. Of course you can choose AF priority over frame rate.By the way, i have a katz eye on my 10D and use many MF lenses, but give us a break, this is becoming pathetic.
Pathetic or not, nobody has answered that question.
There, your question was answered. And we all agree that you were right. You're a genious, and you should be running canon.
Is that enough attention for today?
+1
Tim, well said
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:37 PM
p.15 #12Canon EOS 7D Master thread
adam613 wrote:
Guys...
Do we know for sure that the 7D isn't the 1D IV? It's got a lot of the pro-level features...dual processors, weather-sealing, 8fps, 19-point AF...maybe APS-H sensors are no more and this is the new pro-level crop camera, and the next SLR announcement will be a 1DS IV in the spring with 80 bazillion MP on a full-frame sensor?
you're kidding right?
Guys...
Do we know for sure that the 7D isn't the 1D IV? It's got a lot of the pro-level features...dual processors, weather-sealing, 8fps, 19-point AF...maybe APS-H sensors are no more and this is the new pro-level crop camera, and the next SLR announcement will be a 1DS IV in the spring with 80 bazillion MP on a full-frame sensor?
you're kidding right?
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:38 PM
p.15 #13Canon EOS 7D Master thread
A 5DII firmware upgrade was announced to update the 5DII according to CanonRumours today ;-)
PhotoMaximum wrote:
I bet the non interchangeable viewing screen option on the 7D is like the coating on a pinhead when compared to the outrage that 5DII video buffs have over the fact that the 7D offers different film (video) rates while the 5DII does not.
PhotoMaximum wrote:
I bet the non interchangeable viewing screen option on the 7D is like the coating on a pinhead when compared to the outrage that 5DII video buffs have over the fact that the 7D offers different film (video) rates while the 5DII does not.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:38 PM
p.15 #14Canon EOS 7D Master thread
RGS65 wrote:
A 5DII firmware upgrade was announced to update the 5DII according to CanonRumours today ;-)
That report was based on a photo of a camera LCD that is supposed to show added features on the 5DII. But the photo is bogus though. No firmware upgrade yet...
A 5DII firmware upgrade was announced to update the 5DII according to CanonRumours today ;-)
PhotoMaximum wrote
I bet the non interchangeable viewing screen option on the 7D is like the coating on a pinhead when compared to the outrage that 5DII video buffs have over the fact that the 7D offers different film (video) rates while the 5DII does not.That report was based on a photo of a camera LCD that is supposed to show added features on the 5DII. But the photo is bogus though. No firmware upgrade yet...
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:46 PM
p.15 #15Canon EOS 7D Master thread
timbop wrote:
Honestly, one of the small things that I really like (since we seem to be able to drone on for pages about small things), is the ability to change the functionality of the main and quick control dials in manual. I am in Av and M 99.99% of the time, and I constantly change the wrong setting because of the dials having different behavior. Being able to keep it consistent is one thing I really like about my 1d2, and I hope they continue that flexibility into the fullframe version of the 7d.
That's in there? For sure? Wow, now I'm getting interested!
Seriously, I agree with you. If you are an M + Av shooter, this is one of the more aggravating things about EOS ergonomics, and after owning 1-series cameras for years, I really missed this tweak when I migrated to the 5-series. I was really baffled why this didn't make it into the 5D2.
Canon's EU marketing message for the 7D is that its feature set is customer-driven ("You Designed It; We Built It"). This is a sign that that is more than just marketing speak.
Honestly, one of the small things that I really like (since we seem to be able to drone on for pages about small things), is the ability to change the functionality of the main and quick control dials in manual. I am in Av and M 99.99% of the time, and I constantly change the wrong setting because of the dials having different behavior. Being able to keep it consistent is one thing I really like about my 1d2, and I hope they continue that flexibility into the fullframe version of the 7d.
That's in there? For sure? Wow, now I'm getting interested!
Seriously, I agree with you. If you are an M + Av shooter, this is one of the more aggravating things about EOS ergonomics, and after owning 1-series cameras for years, I really missed this tweak when I migrated to the 5-series. I was really baffled why this didn't make it into the 5D2.
Canon's EU marketing message for the 7D is that its feature set is customer-driven ("You Designed It; We Built It"). This is a sign that that is more than just marketing speak.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:54 PM
p.15 #16Canon EOS 7D Master thread
dave chilvers wrote:
EBHI bought a 500D as a kick around and although I would say that it is a great little camera in lots of ways the lack of fine detail (without sharpening a lot) makes me wonder just what the 7d files are going to look like at 18 million pixels..
It's too early to say anything definitive, but the JPEG samples at the Imaging Resource site are encouraging. They seem considerably sharper than the 50D/500D equivalents, which indicates to me that the 7D is applying less NR to the images at equivalent ISO settings.
You are aware that the 500D is applying NR to your files even at ISO 100? This also happens to RAW files by default in DPP (though you can turn this off). This is one reason that files from these cameras can seem soft compared to other models.
EB-1 wrote
Am I the only one not very impressed? The 50D already shows the limits of noise and resolution on the small sensor. The 7D will have more pixels, and even if the noise level is the same, what good is the difference?EBH
It's too early to say anything definitive, but the JPEG samples at the Imaging Resource site are encouraging. They seem considerably sharper than the 50D/500D equivalents, which indicates to me that the 7D is applying less NR to the images at equivalent ISO settings.
You are aware that the 500D is applying NR to your files even at ISO 100? This also happens to RAW files by default in DPP (though you can turn this off). This is one reason that files from these cameras can seem soft compared to other models.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:59 PM
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p.15 #17Canon EOS 7D Master thread
n0b0 wrote:
"For the most demanding photographers..."
And in fine print "Bloody FMers..."
Yes! I noticed that and had the same thought. Keep the pressure on fellas, and that 3D will be ours one day soon...
"For the most demanding photographers..."
And in fine print "Bloody FMers..."
Yes! I noticed that and had the same thought. Keep the pressure on fellas, and that 3D will be ours one day soon...
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:22 PM
p.15 #18Canon EOS 7D Master thread
garyvot wrote:
Canon's EU marketing message for the 7D is that its feature set is customer-driven ("You Designed It; We Built It"). This is a sign that that is more than just marketing speak.
Clueless users demanding more pixels. Just great.
EBH
Canon's EU marketing message for the 7D is that its feature set is customer-driven ("You Designed It; We Built It"). This is a sign that that is more than just marketing speak.
Clueless users demanding more pixels. Just great.
EBH
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:28 PM
p.15 #20Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Jim, I think your numbers are right on the money.
1D Mark IV - 18MP
5D Mark III (3D?) - 24MP (just enough to call it an upgrade) with 7D-ish feature set
1Ds Mark IV - 30MP at least
Canon will be busting the ceiling wide open with the res on the 1Ds Mark IV. It needs to, since it will have less and less to differentiate it from the also-FF 5D series once the 5D series gets pro-ish AF.
Could be an interesting spring. I have considered that Canon will some day merge the two 1-series bodies into one, but I don't know if that will happen this cycle or next.
Anyway, for the fun of it, I see a 1D Mk IV in February, fully beta-tested and ready for action. 18 mp 1.3X rocket. 10 fps, revamped 45-point AF scheme (tweaked to avoid the embarassment of the early 1D3 bodies), video, all the stuff on the 7D and more.
Come next fall, the 5D2 gets a tweak. Same sensor, improved (as they always say), Digic V, new AF system same as 7D and a bunch of new video options. Basically, a full-frame 7D with 4 or 5 fps. I'll call it the 5D2n.Canon will get another year or two out of this setup.
Spring 2011, 1Ds IV - 30 mpx, 5-6 fps, all the stuff on the 1D4 plus more.
Expect a new Rebel in 2 of the 3 releases, and a replacement for the 50D next spring. Something below the 7D but with more features than the 50D.
Jim, I think your numbers are right on the money.
1D Mark IV - 18MP
5D Mark III (3D?) - 24MP (just enough to call it an upgrade) with 7D-ish feature set
1Ds Mark IV - 30MP at least
Canon will be busting the ceiling wide open with the res on the 1Ds Mark IV. It needs to, since it will have less and less to differentiate it from the also-FF 5D series once the 5D series gets pro-ish AF.
Could be an interesting spring. I have considered that Canon will some day merge the two 1-series bodies into one, but I don't know if that will happen this cycle or next.
Anyway, for the fun of it, I see a 1D Mk IV in February, fully beta-tested and ready for action. 18 mp 1.3X rocket. 10 fps, revamped 45-point AF scheme (tweaked to avoid the embarassment of the early 1D3 bodies), video, all the stuff on the 7D and more.
Come next fall, the 5D2 gets a tweak. Same sensor, improved (as they always say), Digic V, new AF system same as 7D and a bunch of new video options. Basically, a full-frame 7D with 4 or 5 fps. I'll call it the 5D2n.Canon will get another year or two out of this setup.
Spring 2011, 1Ds IV - 30 mpx, 5-6 fps, all the stuff on the 1D4 plus more.
Expect a new Rebel in 2 of the 3 releases, and a replacement for the 50D next spring. Something below the 7D but with more features than the 50D.
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:35 PM