This topic is in the 2009 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2009the d300s killer
p.5 #1the d300s killer
Gerry Szarek wrote:
FWIW does the D7 have full weather sealing? That is my biggest concern right now,
Are you asking about the nikon d700? If so, yes it has weather sealing.
most of canon's AF issues can be "fixed" by going to AI Servo, Center Point AF only, with expansion on, well at least on the 5DmkI.
Then there isn't much point in having more than 1 AF point, if you can't reliably use anything but that single AF point. I buy cameras with more AF points because I want to use all of those points. I can and do, with my cameras.
Letting the camera pick the AF point while shooting hockey or baseball isn't a wise choice no matter which camera you pick up.
That is simply not true. It may well be true for your camera, but it certainly is not true for many nikon bodies, especially the d300 and up. Even the older or cheaper bodies with group dynamic AF work very well.
I'd suggest that you get with someone that owns a camera with pro AF and let them give you a good demonstration of what a good AF system will do. I'm sure that the canon pro bodies are quite capable in this area too and hopefully, the new 7d will give you guys a good AF system that won't restrict you to the center point.
FWIW does the D7 have full weather sealing? That is my biggest concern right now,
Are you asking about the nikon d700? If so, yes it has weather sealing.
most of canon's AF issues can be "fixed" by going to AI Servo, Center Point AF only, with expansion on, well at least on the 5DmkI.
Then there isn't much point in having more than 1 AF point, if you can't reliably use anything but that single AF point. I buy cameras with more AF points because I want to use all of those points. I can and do, with my cameras.
Letting the camera pick the AF point while shooting hockey or baseball isn't a wise choice no matter which camera you pick up.
That is simply not true. It may well be true for your camera, but it certainly is not true for many nikon bodies, especially the d300 and up. Even the older or cheaper bodies with group dynamic AF work very well.
I'd suggest that you get with someone that owns a camera with pro AF and let them give you a good demonstration of what a good AF system will do. I'm sure that the canon pro bodies are quite capable in this area too and hopefully, the new 7d will give you guys a good AF system that won't restrict you to the center point.
Sep 02, 2009 at 05:55 AM
p.5 #2the d300s killer
Gerry Szarek wrote:
Letting the camera pick the AF point while shooting hockey or baseball isn't a wise choice no matter which camera you pick up.
I honestly do not know how good or bad Canon's AF system is. But I do play adult ice hockey and from time to time I convince my wife to come to the games and take photos. Mind you, she is not a photographer at all. I set up my D700 (as with my D300, and D2Hs before that) on group dynamic AF point and AF-C mode and she manages to get at least 95% in-focus shots. The missed shots are generally when the camera focuses on the dirty glass.
Letting the camera pick the AF point is not a problem. I suspect the same is true for Canon pro bodies.
Letting the camera pick the AF point while shooting hockey or baseball isn't a wise choice no matter which camera you pick up.
I honestly do not know how good or bad Canon's AF system is. But I do play adult ice hockey and from time to time I convince my wife to come to the games and take photos. Mind you, she is not a photographer at all. I set up my D700 (as with my D300, and D2Hs before that) on group dynamic AF point and AF-C mode and she manages to get at least 95% in-focus shots. The missed shots are generally when the camera focuses on the dirty glass.
Letting the camera pick the AF point is not a problem. I suspect the same is true for Canon pro bodies.
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:24 AM
p.5 #3the d300s killer
It sounds like a nice camera...19 all crosstype AF points...built in flash....MLU...100% viewfinder coverage....8fps. Though not a D300 killer...it is positioned to compete with the D300, and with the D300s. It should do well.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:37 AM
p.5 #4the d300s killer
poisonpill wrote:
Letting the camera pick the AF point is not a problem. I suspect the same is true for Canon pro bodies.
It's not.
Letting the camera pick the AF point is not a problem. I suspect the same is true for Canon pro bodies.
It's not.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:39 AM
p.5 #5the d300s killer
MagicNikon wrote:
It's not.
- with my MKIII even single sensor single-shot was a crap shoot!
poisonpill wrote
Letting the camera pick the AF point is not a problem. I suspect the same is true for Canon pro bodies. - with my MKIII even single sensor single-shot was a crap shoot!Sep 02, 2009 at 08:09 AM
p.5 #6the d300s killer
MagicNikon wrote:
It's not.
I was asked to take a picture with a 1D MK III a couple of weeks ago. First thing I had to ask was what activates the autofocus. I was told the * button was set for that. So then I autofocus and a bunch of points light up in the viewfinder. Some were on the subject and some were not. I just snapped the picture. Oh well.
poisonpill wrote
Letting the camera pick the AF point is not a problem. I suspect the same is true for Canon pro bodies.I was asked to take a picture with a 1D MK III a couple of weeks ago. First thing I had to ask was what activates the autofocus. I was told the * button was set for that. So then I autofocus and a bunch of points light up in the viewfinder. Some were on the subject and some were not. I just snapped the picture. Oh well.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:23 AM
p.5 #7the d300s killer
trenchmonkey wrote:
Sorry Paul, but nothin's died over here. Old school D300 still cranks out stuff Canon can't touch...AF that WORKS! 
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/rvrsbnd/DSC_8892-1.jpg
C'mon Monkey, Canon touched the same Osprey with the same stick and did just fine
http://ken.smugmug.com/photos/584455111_oNNPf-L.jpg
Sorry Paul, but nothin's died over here.
Old school D300 still cranks out stuff Canon can't touch...AF that WORKS! http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/rvrsbnd/DSC_8892-1.jpg
C'mon Monkey, Canon touched the same Osprey with the same stick and did just fine
http://ken.smugmug.com/photos/584455111_oNNPf-L.jpg
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:42 AM
p.5 #8the d300s killer
There is a fundamental design difference between the Canon and Nikon autofocus which comes into play if one is shooting something that moves extremely quickly where one has to get the shot in a particular split second - even when the canon focus is spot on working perfectly.
The canon bodies when the focus is set to AI-servo constantly looks for focus and never stops. The net result is that there is a subtle jitter back and forth. So when I had to deal with a racer coming over a hill and poping a wheelie at 120 mph (for example) where one has two seconds of visibility and only a fraction where it is the peak moment it caused me great problems. The focus jittered back and forth and to get the shot on exactly the instant that one wanted you had to have shutter priority, not focus priority. Often (40% ?) that meant that the camera was between its throws of focus finding and the shot was just a hair off. If you were not critical (and a shocking number of shooters are not) then the shot was in good enough focus to pass - but next to a perfectly in focus shot it can look terrible. That was when you demanded the camera took the frame on that exact instance. To get a better keeper rate you could set the body to only take the shot when it deemed the area under the sensor in perfect focus. That works really well for most sports ... but not for my needs because often it would trigger the shutter a twentieth of a second later, or a tenth of a second later etc. That could be five feet down the road with what I shot. So I was really agravated because I did not like to shoot in what I thought was the typical style head on ... where that makes little differnce. So I can see why some canon sports shooters don't know what I'm complaining about ... because they shoot the same corner differently. But the tool was pretty falible. And I'm talking about the 1 series ... the other canons ... forget it.
The nikon's focus algorithm does not results in this behavior. It stays put and follows in one direction if you have a good contrast edge and more important that simply quick shutter response is the fact it is more predictable from one frame to another. Simply put the Nikon focus is soooo much better ... but one has to really experience both under the worst stresses for autofocus to truly appreciate the sublime, near perfect, craftsman like Nikon advantage.
And I say this after using Canon for about 14 years and as someone who has recently switched back to Canon (but I'm sure not expecting to shoot anything demanding)
The canon bodies when the focus is set to AI-servo constantly looks for focus and never stops. The net result is that there is a subtle jitter back and forth. So when I had to deal with a racer coming over a hill and poping a wheelie at 120 mph (for example) where one has two seconds of visibility and only a fraction where it is the peak moment it caused me great problems. The focus jittered back and forth and to get the shot on exactly the instant that one wanted you had to have shutter priority, not focus priority. Often (40% ?) that meant that the camera was between its throws of focus finding and the shot was just a hair off. If you were not critical (and a shocking number of shooters are not) then the shot was in good enough focus to pass - but next to a perfectly in focus shot it can look terrible. That was when you demanded the camera took the frame on that exact instance. To get a better keeper rate you could set the body to only take the shot when it deemed the area under the sensor in perfect focus. That works really well for most sports ... but not for my needs because often it would trigger the shutter a twentieth of a second later, or a tenth of a second later etc. That could be five feet down the road with what I shot. So I was really agravated because I did not like to shoot in what I thought was the typical style head on ... where that makes little differnce. So I can see why some canon sports shooters don't know what I'm complaining about ... because they shoot the same corner differently. But the tool was pretty falible. And I'm talking about the 1 series ... the other canons ... forget it.
The nikon's focus algorithm does not results in this behavior. It stays put and follows in one direction if you have a good contrast edge and more important that simply quick shutter response is the fact it is more predictable from one frame to another. Simply put the Nikon focus is soooo much better ... but one has to really experience both under the worst stresses for autofocus to truly appreciate the sublime, near perfect, craftsman like Nikon advantage.
And I say this after using Canon for about 14 years and as someone who has recently switched back to Canon (but I'm sure not expecting to shoot anything demanding)
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:48 AM
p.5 #9the d300s killer
trenchmonkey wrote:
Sorry Paul, but nothin's died over here. Old school D300 still cranks out stuff Canon can't touch...AF that WORKS!
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/rvrsbnd/DSC_8892-1.jpg
Mr Zoom wrote:
C'mon Monkey, Canon touched the same Osprey with the same stick and did just fine
http://ken.smugmug.com/photos/584455111_oNNPf-L.jpg
Hey, what er ya doin' over HERE
Not bad for a 500 but I think my (cough) 300's details
and colors spank ya SOOC MZ
Sorry Paul, but nothin's died over here.
Old school D300 still cranks out stuff Canon can't touch...AF that WORKS! http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/rvrsbnd/DSC_8892-1.jpg
Mr Zoom wrote:
C'mon Monkey, Canon touched the same Osprey with the same stick and did just fine
http://ken.smugmug.com/photos/584455111_oNNPf-L.jpg
Hey, what er ya doin' over HERE
Not bad for a 500 but I think my (cough) 300's detailsand colors spank ya SOOC M
Z Sep 02, 2009 at 09:02 AM
p.5 #11the d300s killer
I read the hands on reports, looked at the sample shots taken with this new wonder cam 7D. Considered the lens lineup differences, looked at the ergonomics of it and the laundry list of new tech feature sets and developments. Then I want over and opened up some full sized images taken with my D700 on my last Northwest trip. Game over. I do NOT believe for one second that the crisp, color rich and color accurate wide dynamic range, in focus shots taken then will be equaled by the 7D. Time will tell but I sure do NOT like what the ISO800 on up shots reveal from the samples. They'd better get a lot better than that before they even slightly entice me. That's for sure. My setup ain't broken, so I"m not fixing it. Still I would LOVE to have a 100-400L for my Nikon
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:10 AM
p.5 #12the d300s killer
Traveler ... the 100-400 is good up to about 250. What you really want is the 200-400!
Sep 02, 2009 at 11:02 AM
p.5 #13the d300s killer
Dunno about what traveler really wants, but I don't want a 200-400. I want a friggin update to the 10 year old 80-400 and the 300 f/4...... 
I don't want a d300s killer either........
I don't want a d300s killer either........
Sep 02, 2009 at 11:45 AM
p.5 #14the d300s killer
O come on Kerry ... admit that you want that constant apperture F4.0! 
Think ... how big your biceps will be!
Think ... how big your biceps will be!
Sep 02, 2009 at 11:48 AM
p.5 #15the d300s killer
size doesn't matter........ so I don't care about big biceps and stuff. 
I want my 80-400. Don't need no stinkin constant f/4 zoom.
I want my 80-400. Don't need no stinkin constant f/4 zoom.
Sep 02, 2009 at 11:52 AM
p.5 #16the d300s killer
Did I already say I wanted a D700s? Because that could be a D300s killer 
Atleast in my world.
Ugh. The agony of waiting.
Chris
Atleast in my world. Ugh. The agony of waiting.
Chris
Sep 02, 2009 at 01:37 PM
p.5 #17the d300s killer
Just realized 1 hour back that I think I've made a mistake selling my D700 (another FM member). I just got home from Bestbuy, I tried the D300 and D700 and didnt realise how used to I had gotten to the D700..
D300s is great, but its just not the D700.
D300s killer - we have had it all along.
Yeah I know different purpose different tools - just being emotional
D300s is great, but its just not the D700.
D300s killer - we have had it all along.
Yeah I know different purpose different tools - just being emotional
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:05 PM
p.5 #19the d300s killer
Fantastic feature set, very exciting video capabilities too (the DoP on 24 is already shooting on one).
Shame about the noise though, even the ISO 800 samples I've seen look incredibly noisy. I think we've reached a point now with megapixels where they really need to focus on quality over quantity. I'm happy to stay at 12 megapixels, so long as the colour and noise characteristics keep improving.
Shame about the noise though, even the ISO 800 samples I've seen look incredibly noisy. I think we've reached a point now with megapixels where they really need to focus on quality over quantity. I'm happy to stay at 12 megapixels, so long as the colour and noise characteristics keep improving.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:33 PM
p.5 #20the d300s killer
trenchmonkey wrote:
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/rvrsbnd/DSC_8892-1.jpg
Hey, what er ya doin' over HERE Not bad for a 500 but I think my (cough) 300's details
and colors spank ya SOOC MZ
I'm over here spanking the monkey, what else would I be doing
The only difference tween yours and min was white balance and exposure - that and the 1D Mark III has better dynamic range as illustrated by the lack of blown highlights in my version
Here's a reprocess with the sickly underexposed orange cast your Nikon shot illustrates ever so effectively. I really had to work this puppy over to get it even close...
http://ken.smugmug.com/photos/638077822_ZQsz5-L.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/rvrsbnd/DSC_8892-1.jpg
Hey, what er ya doin' over HERE
Not bad for a 500 but I think my (cough) 300's detailsand colors spank ya SOOC M
Z I'm over here spanking the monkey, what else would I be doing
The only difference tween yours and min was white balance and exposure - that and the 1D Mark III has better dynamic range as illustrated by the lack of blown highlights in my version
Here's a reprocess with the sickly underexposed orange cast your Nikon shot illustrates ever so effectively. I really had to work this puppy over to get it even close...
http://ken.smugmug.com/photos/638077822_ZQsz5-L.jpg
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:40 PM