This thread is on the verge of jumping the shark tank. One thing about Sergio, he attracts controversy. The interwebs sure bring out the piss and vinegar in people, funny how sitting at a keyboard does that to people.
Personally I'm a big fan of Sergio's work. Having said that IMO this is not his strongest work. There seems to a lack of connection with the subject that is evident in his other shoots. However this is still a very solid set.
I'm eager to see something new from Sergio that brings back the WOW factor that I had from his previous stuff, I'm very confident it will come. He's got too much talent not to explore new nuances to his trademark style.
There's Art. There's Money. There's art in making money, but not necessarily money in making art.
People pick on lifetouch, mcdonalds, walmart - but damn if they're not onto something. If more people wanted Serg's work, or my work, or Jeremy's work they we'd be as rich and well known as those large outfits.
No one will come to you unless they want what you sell. So of course those that come to lifetouch don't want Serg's work - or they'd have gone to him. But this just proves my point that most folks don't know the difference between a good pic and bad one but they do know the difference between $200 and $500.
I don't know what lifetouch gets on average for senior photo, but folks will generally choose a photog this way: who do I know? (lifetouch will win in the marketing competiion). If everyone's images look about the same, who's cheapest? If I want something different, how much more is that gonna cost, and is it worth that to me?
Can you give 'old style' head shot type pacakges for an average of $250, and have customers out the wazoo? With minimal marketing, yes. It's done all the time.
Can you have customers out the wazoo at $1000 each? It's gonna take a special product (look, location, experience, etc) and more marketing effort. Yes, it's also done all the time.
After the 100th senior you won't feel creative doing either one.
So it comes down to personal preference - what kind of work do you want your name attached to? How hard do you want to have to work?
The old school style can be taught very easily and have it replicated by 100 part time soccer mom shooters so it's of course the most often seen 'style' out there. Add some artistic influence and it's much more difficult to have that shot or edited, etc, but multiple people and get a consistent product.
I know this from personal experience, from talking with photographers that have tried to expand, from owners of multiple studios, from those that have been the photographer in big outfits.
prof_fate wrote:
People pick on lifetouch, mcdonalds, walmart - but damn if they're not onto something. If more people wanted Serg's work, or my work, or Jeremy's work they we'd be as rich and well known as those large outfits.
I think there's a huge logic gap in the assumption that more people desire a Lifetouch style company than a Sergio/Prof Fate/Jeremy. Just because a nationwide company is wildly successful doesn't mean that people prefer them over a smaller business, it just means they have more resources. Lifetouch, for example, has contracts with countless schools forcing the students to go there for their yearbook shots. And most parents aren't going to do the research to find a second photographer after they've been forced to go to the first.
Just because most people will settle for "good enough" doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer something better. The myriad of reasons why they're willing to settle is for another post.
prof_fate wrote:
There's Art. There's Money. There's art in making money, but not necessarily money in making art.
People pick on lifetouch, mcdonalds, walmart - but damn if they're not onto something. If more people wanted Serg's work, or my work, or Jeremy's work they we'd be as rich and well known as those large outfits.
No one will come to you unless they want what you sell. So of course those that come to lifetouch don't want Serg's work - or they'd have gone to him. But this just proves my point that most folks don't know the difference between a good pic and bad one but they do know the difference between $200 and $500.
I don't know what lifetouch gets on average for senior photo, but folks will generally choose a photog this way: who do I know? (lifetouch will win in the marketing competiion). If everyone's images look about the same, who's cheapest? If I want something different, how much more is that gonna cost, and is it worth that to me?
Can you give 'old style' head shot type pacakges for an average of $250, and have customers out the wazoo? With minimal marketing, yes. It's done all the time.
Can you have customers out the wazoo at $1000 each? It's gonna take a special product (look, location, experience, etc) and more marketing effort. Yes, it's also done all the time.
After the 100th senior you won't feel creative doing either one.
So it comes down to personal preference - what kind of work do you want your name attached to? How hard do you want to have to work?
The old school style can be taught very easily and have it replicated by 100 part time soccer mom shooters so it's of course the most often seen 'style' out there. Add some artistic influence and it's much more difficult to have that shot or edited, etc, but multiple people and get a consistent product.
I know this from personal experience, from talking with photographers that have tried to expand, from owners of multiple studios, from those that have been the photographer in big outfits....Show more →
youre completely missing the point.
sergio didnt post his pictures and ask "how can i make as much money as possible without any regard to the quality of my pictures and artistic expression?"
im sure he wants to make lots of money as do most people, but that doesnt mean that this is the only thing that matters. sure, walmart is an incredibly successful business, but no one should want to be the walmart of photography unless of course you dont actually care about photography and all you care about is making money. to me, some things are more important
sergio didnt post his pictures and ask "how can i make as much money as possible without any regard to the quality of my pictures and artistic expression?"
I just wrote exactly the same, but you type faster
I think we have been carried away in the passion of what we are discussing and somehow the original point has been lost.
When you post images here, you will get all kinds of replies. People who like it and want to let you know that they liked it, People who have a good critical eye and want to show you what they feel can be improved, and people who may not know much but still want to give you their opinion.
Whatever be the reason why someone commented on your picture, there's no reason to attack the reviewer unless they were blatantly rude without contributing anything to the discussion.
Is the reviewer always right? No. Photography is about personal style and just because someone thinks it could be done better doesn't mean that you need to incorporate those changes. That said, it's always nice to hear other people's perspectives so that you can filter it on your end and choose what to take from it.
Sergio doesn't need to take any of prof_fate's suggestions. However, by attacking prof_fate you are scaring away people who might want to critically review your work.
Encourage all kinds of responses. If you disagree with someone's opinion, do so in private, or at least disagree without being dismissive. You never know what little nugget of information you might get from someone that you might be able to use later.
I'll be the first to say I don't care for Sergio's style, but to each his own. However, I think he is very talented in his style and I'm sure he is offering his clients what they want.
I think these conversations tend to get very metaphysical when all the photog is doing his sharing his work and passion with us. I'm not into all the crazy post processing he does, nor do I care for a picture of a stranger being in focus when the senior is sucked up by bokeh...but I didn't pay him to take the pictures.
I think we all learn about who we are as photographers when we share and see what other photog minds are doing and passionate about. Kudos to Sergio for taking the time to share with us and give us a little insight into who he is as a photographer.
And as others have stated this isn't his strongest set, at least not that I've seen...can't always hit a homerun...but as long as his client thinks he did that is what matters at the end of the day.
Thanks for sharing Sergio...that is what this is about...keep it up...maybe one day I will better understand your style 8-)
CRFTony wrote:
prof_fate: I think you're actually the one taking this thread much too personally. No one is pillorying you for your opinion, they're just disagreeing with it. Just like you disagree with Sergio over whether these are good senior photos.
I think the fundamental difference in what you view as good senior photos and what the Pro-Sergio camp views as good senior photos is a personal preference. From your posts, you describe yourself as a by the numbers, traditional senior photographer because that sells well in your area. There's nothing wrong with that. And if you want to shoot 200 seniors in 2 months, then indeed you DO need to adapt to a more traditional style.
Sergio isn't trying to appeal to your market. He's looking for teens who want something entirely different and for him that is working - for now. I'm not going to say that I think every photo he posted is good. I don't. But it's working for him and his client base so for you to degrade that by saying "Clients don't know a good photo from a bad one" is short-sighted and antagonistic.
His clients likely wouldn't look at in studio work with big foam numbers as good photos or photos which capture their personalities. And your clients would likely look at his work with confusion and possibly outright scorn. But that doesn't mean either client base it uneducated or doesn't know what is "good". Taste in art is subjective and you can't just write off anyone who disagrees with you as uneducated and lacking in taste.
In your initial post, you said "Nice images, great for a model, etc, but not what sells to seniors."
Sergio's clients want images that are nice shots, great for a model. They don't want traditional. He's filling a void in his market. Can he improve within that style. Certainly. But should he conform to the "hug this tree, lean against this foam pillar" style of senior portraiture just because it sells and can be more classically posed/lit? I don't think so....Show more →
Very nicely put.
Sergio: I hope that you are not letting any of this get you down. I think the above exchanges have established what's really going on here, and it has little to do with your skills and potential. I'm a big fan of your work. You're pushing the envelope, trying new styles and forms of expression, rejecting static convention. Now that's photography for me.
CRFTony wrote:
I think there's a huge logic gap in the assumption that more people desire a Lifetouch style company than a Sergio/Prof Fate/Jeremy.
Just because most people will settle for "good enough" doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer something better. The myriad of reasons why they're willing to settle is for another post.
Are you sure?
Would most people prefer steak, lobster, olive garden/TGI Friday food/atmosphere/service over McDonalds/BK/Wendys?
If most would prefer nice atmosphere, good service, better food then why is McDonalds the worlds largest restaurant chain, and growing?
Open a 'better' restaurant across the street and you won't beat them at their game.
Same for photography for the most part. There are alternatives to Lifetouch. Many. Yet lifetouch is growing.
Is it a matter of lowest price? If so then then style/personality/service don't matter as much. And if LT is growing, then their style if growing in popularity - that means the serg/prof/jeremy style is doomed.
prof_fate wrote:
Would most people prefer steak, lobster, olive garden/TGI Friday food/atmosphere/service over McDonalds/BK/Wendys?
Yes.
If most would prefer nice atmosphere, good service, better food then why is McDonalds the worlds largest restaurant chain, and growing?
Affordability. A meal is a 3x + daily casual occurance, Grad/Senior/Wedding photos are generally once in a lifetime.
Same for photography for the most part. There are alternatives to Lifetouch. Many. Yet lifetouch is growing.
That doesn't mean people would prefer it. Some are limited to resources available.
Is it a matter of lowest price? If so then then style/personality/service don't matter as much. And if LT is growing, then their style if growing in popularity - that means the serg/prof/jeremy style is doomed.
Is your style not very similar to Lifetouch? I know mine is not like sergs, nor yours like mine..?
the comparisons equating the success of a photography business to publically traded congromerates are pointless and silly. photography should not be a commodity
prof_fate wrote:
Are you sure?
Would most people prefer steak, lobster, olive garden/TGI Friday food/atmosphere/service over McDonalds/BK/Wendys?
If most would prefer nice atmosphere, good service, better food then why is McDonalds the worlds largest restaurant chain, and growing?
Open a 'better' restaurant across the street and you won't beat them at their game.
Same for photography for the most part. There are alternatives to Lifetouch. Many. Yet lifetouch is growing.
Is it a matter of lowest price? If so then then style/personality/service don't matter as much. And if LT is growing, then their style if growing in popularity - that means the serg/prof/jeremy style is doomed.
The diners may not have taste, but the chef should!
If people hired based on skill and style then walmart/sears/jcpenny/lifetouch wouldn't be in business. those that don't appreciate what we do won't spend the money on it, so they buy based on price alone.
us = us photographers!
People simply use those companies you named off b/c they are there every time they walk into those doors. Put your studio right next to a walmart/ jcpenny/ lifetouch (WTF is that?) and you'll be rolling in so much money you wont ever need toilet paper!
People hire Sergo for Sergo! People hire Sam for Sam! People hire Hoff for Hoff no if ands or buts.
While this wasn't Sergo's best set they are sure as hell not as bad as you or others say (although I would get rid of the 1st image).
prof_fate wrote:
Are you sure?
Would most people prefer steak, lobster, olive garden/TGI Friday food/atmosphere/service over McDonalds/BK/Wendys?
If most would prefer nice atmosphere, good service, better food then why is McDonalds the worlds largest restaurant chain, and growing?
Open a 'better' restaurant across the street and you won't beat them at their game.
Same for photography for the most part. There are alternatives to Lifetouch. Many. Yet lifetouch is growing.
Is it a matter of lowest price? If so then then style/personality/service don't matter as much. And if LT is growing, then their style if growing in popularity - that means the serg/prof/jeremy style is doomed.
Doomed? Based on your analogy here? Sorry - you're wrong. That's like saying the Waldorf is gonna shut down because Tom Bodett is leaving the light on for everyone. They serve two different purposes. One is special, elite, more intricate, delicate, reserved. The other is common, cheap, affordable, quick, convenient. And personally, I (and I'm sure the others mentioned in your analogy) want to attract the 'Waldorf' crowd.
Back to the food thingy, I don't want to flip a burger, put it under a heat lamp of generic processing trends (ooohh, nice metaphor), and serve it for $2.99 with a non-choking Pokemon toy (and BTW, you can super-size the digital files for $.99). Some do, and they're necessary for the industry; they have a niche. But so does Ruth's Chris.
Sorry but McDonald's will never put Ruth's Chris out of business. Other factors might, like all of the rich people in the world losing their money, but by then, we'll all have our own gardens in our backyards and not be wasting money on McDonald's OR Ruth's Chris.
I think "normal" senior portraits are boring. They rarely take into account who the person is they're photographing. Understandable, I'm sure...they do a lot of seniors.
I personally love this set. If I had someone like Sergio around when I was in high school i would have been thrilled. I think a lot of professional photographers who have been around a while(doing the same old reliable stuff) are kind of behind the curve. Kids are changing, times are changing and with a digital camera available for like 50 bucks, professional photographers need to change to make their stuff different.
Great job, I think these shots are really what more senior portraits should be like!
388 wrote: