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Archive 20095DII vs 5D AF...improved?
p.2 #15DII vs 5D AF...improved?
Gochugogi wrote:
I mainly shoot landscape and travel with my 5D and have been very happy with AF. It rarely let me down even in dim light. Certainly much better than my prior 10D and 20D (they missed 10-20% of the time in dim light). If the 5DII is even slightly better, it's still a big winner for its intended use/market. I was surprised Canon didn't go with all cross sensors like the 40D/50D. However, even my lowly 5D AI servo (with AF expansion active) tracked better than my 40D.
I share similar experience with my 5D - I also wish that they had upgraded to cross-type sensors as on the 40D, but I also wouldn't want to give up the 5D's somewhat superior servo performance. I'm generally happy with the 5D's AF scheme, with the exception that I wish that the outer AF sensors were a little better in low light.
I haven't tried the 5D2 yet, but I suspect that it'll be similar to the 5D in performance given that the hardware is roughly the same. I will hold my vote until I am able to compare them.
I mainly shoot landscape and travel with my 5D and have been very happy with AF. It rarely let me down even in dim light. Certainly much better than my prior 10D and 20D (they missed 10-20% of the time in dim light). If the 5DII is even slightly better, it's still a big winner for its intended use/market. I was surprised Canon didn't go with all cross sensors like the 40D/50D. However, even my lowly 5D AI servo (with AF expansion active) tracked better than my 40D.
I share similar experience with my 5D - I also wish that they had upgraded to cross-type sensors as on the 40D, but I also wouldn't want to give up the 5D's somewhat superior servo performance. I'm generally happy with the 5D's AF scheme, with the exception that I wish that the outer AF sensors were a little better in low light.
I haven't tried the 5D2 yet, but I suspect that it'll be similar to the 5D in performance given that the hardware is roughly the same. I will hold my vote until I am able to compare them.
Jan 02, 2009 at 12:01 PM
p.2 #25DII vs 5D AF...improved?
I don`t do so much outer AF focussing but when I have done it with the 5d2 it works fine (haven`t tried it much in the dark)
Centre AF point seems very much on par with my 1dsmk3 (surprisingly enough) but then I`m not a sport shooter.
What ever, from my memory of when I owned the 5dmk1 this camera is (so far) a step up everywhere.
Dave
Centre AF point seems very much on par with my 1dsmk3 (surprisingly enough) but then I`m not a sport shooter.
What ever, from my memory of when I owned the 5dmk1 this camera is (so far) a step up everywhere.
Dave
Jan 02, 2009 at 12:22 PM
p.2 #35DII vs 5D AF...improved?
For the 5DMkIII or whatever its going to be called, Canon should implement a 15-point cross type AF spread out further in the frame with an improvement to the single shot focus capability.
The only let down on the 5DMkII is not a considerably improved AF.
The only let down on the 5DMkII is not a considerably improved AF.
Jan 02, 2009 at 03:01 PM
p.2 #45DII vs 5D AF...improved?
"Canon should implement a 15-point cross type AF spread out further in the frame with an improvement to the single shot focus capability. The only let down on the 5DMkII is not a considerably improved AF."
+1
+1
Jan 02, 2009 at 03:07 PM
p.2 #55DII vs 5D AF...improved?
slightly off topic..
When people talk about the slow and bad AF preformance, and how its not fast enough for birding.. are they talking about autofocusing in AI Servo? Or is the AF to slow in general so it wont AF on moving subjects fast enough even in Single Shot?.
I never used AI Servo anyways on my 20D-40D.
Im getting the 5D2.. not mainly to shoot birds, but it would be fun to be able to do it. Still not sure if i should get a 400 5.6L to go with the camera for birding? =P
When people talk about the slow and bad AF preformance, and how its not fast enough for birding.. are they talking about autofocusing in AI Servo? Or is the AF to slow in general so it wont AF on moving subjects fast enough even in Single Shot?.
I never used AI Servo anyways on my 20D-40D.
Im getting the 5D2.. not mainly to shoot birds, but it would be fun to be able to do it. Still not sure if i should get a 400 5.6L to go with the camera for birding? =P
Jan 02, 2009 at 03:16 PM
p.2 #65DII vs 5D AF...improved?
rsg_1 wrote:
For the 5DMkIII or whatever its going to be called, Canon should implement a 15-point cross type AF spread out further in the frame with an improvement to the single shot focus capability.
They should have done it for the MKII. But that would have made too much sense and in reality would have cost Canon in 1DsMKIII and 1DMKIII sales. I'm a perfect example of that (and I'm sure there are a lot more as well)--the reason I'm not buying the 5DII is because of the AF. Instead I'm spending 1K more on a 1DIII and if I had an extra 3K on top of that I'd buy the 1DsIII. In the end Canon's strategy worked. Hats off to them.
For the 5DMkIII or whatever its going to be called, Canon should implement a 15-point cross type AF spread out further in the frame with an improvement to the single shot focus capability.
They should have done it for the MKII. But that would have made too much sense and in reality would have cost Canon in 1DsMKIII and 1DMKIII sales. I'm a perfect example of that (and I'm sure there are a lot more as well)--the reason I'm not buying the 5DII is because of the AF. Instead I'm spending 1K more on a 1DIII and if I had an extra 3K on top of that I'd buy the 1DsIII. In the end Canon's strategy worked. Hats off to them.
Jan 02, 2009 at 03:19 PM
p.2 #75DII vs 5D AF...improved?
AF speed and accuracy is relevant when comparing to comparable models. Asking for the 5DMkII AF to be like the 1D is pointless, but it should be comparable to the Nikon D700 which does have better speed and accuracy. We all know the 5DMkII AF deficiency, but how much is acceptable for a body priced under $3000 and how much can we live with?
When Canon updates the 1D and 1Ds, then it will not be unreasonable to upgrade the 5D AF. I predict this will happen and then the cycle repeats and I'll buy the 5DMkIII.
When Canon updates the 1D and 1Ds, then it will not be unreasonable to upgrade the 5D AF. I predict this will happen and then the cycle repeats and I'll buy the 5DMkIII.
Jan 02, 2009 at 03:22 PM
p.2 #85DII vs 5D AF...improved?
dave chilvers wrote:
I don`t do so much outer AF focussing but when I have done it with the 5d2 it works fine (haven`t tried it much in the dark)
Centre AF point seems very much on par with my 1dsmk3 (surprisingly enough) but then I`m not a sport shooter.
What ever, from my memory of when I owned the 5dmk1 this camera is (so far) a step up everywhere.
Dave
I have noticed a significant differenance on my 1D MkIII vs the 5D MkI I had at AF accuracy in low light on moving targets ... in my case, theater. Some of it could be shutter lag ... the outer AF points may also be part of it ... had to focus and recompose on the 5D in order to use the center AF point.
I don`t do so much outer AF focussing but when I have done it with the 5d2 it works fine (haven`t tried it much in the dark)
Centre AF point seems very much on par with my 1dsmk3 (surprisingly enough) but then I`m not a sport shooter.
What ever, from my memory of when I owned the 5dmk1 this camera is (so far) a step up everywhere.
Dave
I have noticed a significant differenance on my 1D MkIII vs the 5D MkI I had at AF accuracy in low light on moving targets ... in my case, theater. Some of it could be shutter lag ... the outer AF points may also be part of it ... had to focus and recompose on the 5D in order to use the center AF point.
Jan 02, 2009 at 05:05 PM
p.2 #95DII vs 5D AF...improved?
Bassel wrote:
slightly off topic..
Im getting the 5D2.. not mainly to shoot birds, but it would be fun to be able to do it. Still not sure if i should get a 400 5.6L to go with the camera for birding? =P
On a full frame, the 400mm will only be good for turkeys up close. The rule on birds is that you always need a longer lens. That has been the case with the 20D and 40D and 500F4, where we usually need the 1.4xII extender. With a full frame, the 500 + 1.4x is barely adequate, so I would have little hope for a 400mm.
Also, I have the 100-400 LIS. I have never fully understood the appeal of the 400 with the same F5.6 max aperture and NO image stabilization. The 100-400 is handy, though, for other stuff.
FWIW.
slightly off topic..
Im getting the 5D2.. not mainly to shoot birds, but it would be fun to be able to do it. Still not sure if i should get a 400 5.6L to go with the camera for birding? =P
On a full frame, the 400mm will only be good for turkeys up close. The rule on birds is that you always need a longer lens. That has been the case with the 20D and 40D and 500F4, where we usually need the 1.4xII extender. With a full frame, the 500 + 1.4x is barely adequate, so I would have little hope for a 400mm.
Also, I have the 100-400 LIS. I have never fully understood the appeal of the 400 with the same F5.6 max aperture and NO image stabilization. The 100-400 is handy, though, for other stuff.
FWIW.
Jan 02, 2009 at 06:03 PM
p.2 #105DII vs 5D AF...improved?
rsg_1 wrote:
For the 5DMkIII or whatever its going to be called, Canon should implement a 15-point cross type AF spread out further in the frame
This seems to be a recurring complaint about the 5D/5DII AF System. And in fact, no less than three people shared that same opinion in this thread alone.
You guys are aware, of course, that the 15 AF points on the current 5D AF system is no less spread out across the frame than the EOS 1Ds Mark III, the Nikon D3, the Nikon D700, and Sony A900.... right? Try superimposing all these AF systems on top of each other, and you'll see what I mean. The distances to the furthest AF points on each of these systems are virtually identical.
For the 5DMkIII or whatever its going to be called, Canon should implement a 15-point cross type AF spread out further in the frame
This seems to be a recurring complaint about the 5D/5DII AF System. And in fact, no less than three people shared that same opinion in this thread alone.
You guys are aware, of course, that the 15 AF points on the current 5D AF system is no less spread out across the frame than the EOS 1Ds Mark III, the Nikon D3, the Nikon D700, and Sony A900.... right? Try superimposing all these AF systems on top of each other, and you'll see what I mean. The distances to the furthest AF points on each of these systems are virtually identical.
Jan 02, 2009 at 07:41 PM
p.2 #115DII vs 5D AF...improved?
Did not own a mkI. I have found that while the outer focus points will focus quite well on a stationary subject, they do not work all that good in AI Servo mode. The center point, as expected, works quite well in that mode though. The 40D sure has a leg up on the mkII in that area. What were you thinking of Canon, saving the 1DsmkIII sales 
Jan 02, 2009 at 08:44 PM
p.2 #125DII vs 5D AF...improved?
Rubber Soul wrote:
You guys are aware, of course, that the 15 AF points on the current 5D AF system is no less spread out across the frame than the EOS 1Ds Mark III, the Nikon D3, the Nikon D700, and Sony A900.... right? Try superimposing all these AF systems on top of each other, and you'll see what I mean. The distances to the furthest AF points on each of these systems are virtually identical.
The furthest AF points (the left-most and right-most) aren't the issue, at least for me. It's how far the points are from the rule-of-thirds intersection points. The 1-series "corner" points (yes I know the AF array is an oval-ish shape, so it doesn't really have corners, but you know what I mean) are closer to the rule-of-thirds intersections than the 5 series' points. I would be happy if the middle row of 3 AF points stayed where they are now while the other 6, particularly the 4 on the diagonals, moved further out.
You guys are aware, of course, that the 15 AF points on the current 5D AF system is no less spread out across the frame than the EOS 1Ds Mark III, the Nikon D3, the Nikon D700, and Sony A900.... right? Try superimposing all these AF systems on top of each other, and you'll see what I mean. The distances to the furthest AF points on each of these systems are virtually identical.
The furthest AF points (the left-most and right-most) aren't the issue, at least for me. It's how far the points are from the rule-of-thirds intersection points. The 1-series "corner" points (yes I know the AF array is an oval-ish shape, so it doesn't really have corners, but you know what I mean) are closer to the rule-of-thirds intersections than the 5 series' points. I would be happy if the middle row of 3 AF points stayed where they are now while the other 6, particularly the 4 on the diagonals, moved further out.
Jan 02, 2009 at 10:42 PM
p.2 #135DII vs 5D AF...improved?
apdieb wrote:
Shooting a wedding Saturday, so I'll try out some low-light servo performance there.
Andrew
Andrew, I was curious as to your results...have you got any yet?
Shooting a wedding Saturday, so I'll try out some low-light servo performance there.
Andrew
Andrew, I was curious as to your results...have you got any yet?
Jan 04, 2009 at 10:11 PM
p.2 #145DII vs 5D AF...improved?
The 5d2 is not the replacement for the Mk3`s, how could it be it was launched at 1/3rd the 1 series price. People are just angry because they wanted a pro camera at consumer prices. I`m not a sport or wedding photographer and see only plus signs when ever I use the 5d2 in every way over the older mk1 (people used and raved over the original 5D and still do) so whats changed? If you need the ultimate for all situations then (as good as it can be and want a Canon) then you buy the camera that is aimed at that market and that is the 1 series. There are no free lunches in the world so something has to give a little (although as I`ve said I haven`t seen much given away with the 5d2) and surely the thing at the top of the list must be IQ and the 5D2 has it in bucket loads. For specialist work you need a camera aimed at it.
I pick up the 5d2 most of the time now but there are times when I know I`m gonna need that bit of extra performance/ weather proofing etc in certain areas so grab the mk3. There`s no point buying a VW Golf and complaining that it doesn`t perform in all areas like an Audi TT and if it did we would all be driving VW Golfs wouldn`t we?
(I`m not knocking VW golf`s BTW before anyone flames me) I`ve owned both and like the cameras they are different beasts that show their strengths in different ways ( mainly your bank balance) but both get you where your going.
People on these threads act like they have a gun to their head being forced to purchase products that are not right for them.
BTW from reading many threads around the web it`s starting to look like the early American deliveries are where the most problems are, our deliveries in the UK were a few weeks behind the USA in general from a different factory maybe?
Dave
I pick up the 5d2 most of the time now but there are times when I know I`m gonna need that bit of extra performance/ weather proofing etc in certain areas so grab the mk3. There`s no point buying a VW Golf and complaining that it doesn`t perform in all areas like an Audi TT and if it did we would all be driving VW Golfs wouldn`t we?
(I`m not knocking VW golf`s BTW before anyone flames me) I`ve owned both and like the cameras they are different beasts that show their strengths in different ways ( mainly your bank balance) but both get you where your going.
People on these threads act like they have a gun to their head being forced to purchase products that are not right for them.
BTW from reading many threads around the web it`s starting to look like the early American deliveries are where the most problems are, our deliveries in the UK were a few weeks behind the USA in general from a different factory maybe?
Dave
Jan 04, 2009 at 10:59 PM
p.2 #165DII vs 5D AF...improved?
dave chilvers wrote:
The 5d2 is not the replacement for the Mk3`s, how could it be it was launched at 1/3rd the 1 series price. People are just angry because they wanted a pro camera at cons ......
Dave
I agree, different class and different type of product.
I saw many people compare 5D2 with D700 but it is really depends on user weight on each performance section like AF, IQ, feature, outlook, lens .... etc. For me as an entertainment use (not selling picture but need high quality picture ) if D700 only have a little bit better on the AF but half the sensor resolution and no HD movie which provide stunning video quality, I will go to 5D2 for sure. Some people who treat easy AF is critical over everything (the 3D tracking is really good), then D700 is the right choice.
The 5d2 is not the replacement for the Mk3`s, how could it be it was launched at 1/3rd the 1 series price. People are just angry because they wanted a pro camera at cons ......
Dave
I agree, different class and different type of product.
I saw many people compare 5D2 with D700 but it is really depends on user weight on each performance section like AF, IQ, feature, outlook, lens .... etc. For me as an entertainment use (not selling picture but need high quality picture
) if D700 only have a little bit better on the AF but half the sensor resolution and no HD movie which provide stunning video quality, I will go to 5D2 for sure. Some people who treat easy AF is critical over everything (the 3D tracking is really good), then D700 is the right choice.Jan 05, 2009 at 04:53 AM
p.2 #175DII vs 5D AF...improved?
I've had the 5D since day one, and I recently had the 5DM2 for a week and a half. I put about 2,000 frames through the M2 shooting birds, both perched and flying. The AF is essentially identical in my opinion in that the center point is "adequate" in it's ability to lock on and not search, but the outer points behave like the original, sometimes they will lock on, and often they will do a little search before locking on, or they will fail. The AF is still sluggish to find targets, like the original. The extra 0.9fps is quite noticeable and the buffer seems quite deep , especially using an extreme IV card.
All in all, for $4,000 cdn, I want a camera with decent AF, and like it's predecessor, it is just not a very good action/bird camera(not saying that it can't be done, just it is not the best choice). So if your subjects are fairly slow moving and you need the resolution, it will be a great camera, otherwise not.
I decided to return it despite the IQ as I feel for that kind of money, there is no reason why proper AF couldn't be included. Just my opinion.
All in all, for $4,000 cdn, I want a camera with decent AF, and like it's predecessor, it is just not a very good action/bird camera(not saying that it can't be done, just it is not the best choice). So if your subjects are fairly slow moving and you need the resolution, it will be a great camera, otherwise not.
I decided to return it despite the IQ as I feel for that kind of money, there is no reason why proper AF couldn't be included. Just my opinion.
Jan 05, 2009 at 07:01 AM
p.2 #185DII vs 5D AF...improved?
I wrote about what i think of the 5d2 af system here.
That's why I think it's barely worth it.
Please not the serious risk you are taking when using the AF system of this camera.
That's why I think it's barely worth it.
Please not the serious risk you are taking when using the AF system of this camera.
Jan 05, 2009 at 07:35 AM
p.2 #195DII vs 5D AF...improved?
scott f wrote:
I've had the 5D since day one, and I recently had the 5DM2 for a week and a half. I put about 2,000 frames through the M2 shooting birds, both perched and flying. The AF is essentially identical in my opinion in that the center point is "adequate" in it's ability to lock on and not search, but the outer points behave like the original, sometimes they will lock on, and often they will do a little search before locking on, or they will fail. The AF is still sluggish to find targets, like the original. The extra 0.9fps...Show more →
No surprises there then, as I said if you are a specialist you need a specialist camera and pay the premium.
Look! I`m not saying that the 5D2 is the answer to a maidens prayer, I`ve had most of the DSLR cameras from Canon and a number of others and have still 1dsmk1, 2 and 3 and if I were going out to shoot fast moving subjects(not ducks) or trying to shoot a black cat in a coal cellar then I`d probably pick up the mk2or 3 because that is bordering on speciality. I have no axe to grind and if I wasn`t so involved with Canon lenses or had all my stuff stolen I`d certainly be looking at Nikon. I bet the new Nikon D3x can show a clean pair of heals to anything (judging by other Nikon DSLR`s I`ve owned or used)
Thousands of photographers inc me have had some simply stunning results with the 5D1 and now we have a camera launched at a similar price tag(taking into consideration inflation it`s much cheaper than the mk1 was) but it ain`t a full blown pro camera that can handle every situation and as long as people realise that then there shouldn`t be any tears.
Different people put different criteria on their camera gear, mine is IQ and file size for stock work and very importantly for me at least is that all of my alternative lenses work 100% on the 5D2 and with AF confirm chips on board the focus is as close as on my 1dsmk3.
Sorry to labour the point but I have a fast economical turbo deisel car and a 1 ton VW transporter van on my drive and each one has a different tripod in them ready for the type of work they will be asked to do.
I fully understand why the 5d2 will not fit the bill for every job but will do for 99% of the buying photographer.
I`d better finish here or people will think I`ve got shares in Canon
Dave
I've had the 5D since day one, and I recently had the 5DM2 for a week and a half. I put about 2,000 frames through the M2 shooting birds, both perched and flying. The AF is essentially identical in my opinion in that the center point is "adequate" in it's ability to lock on and not search, but the outer points behave like the original, sometimes they will lock on, and often they will do a little search before locking on, or they will fail. The AF is still sluggish to find targets, like the original. The extra 0.9fps...Show more →
No surprises there then, as I said if you are a specialist you need a specialist camera and pay the premium.
Look! I`m not saying that the 5D2 is the answer to a maidens prayer, I`ve had most of the DSLR cameras from Canon and a number of others and have still 1dsmk1, 2 and 3 and if I were going out to shoot fast moving subjects(not ducks) or trying to shoot a black cat in a coal cellar then I`d probably pick up the mk2or 3 because that is bordering on speciality. I have no axe to grind and if I wasn`t so involved with Canon lenses or had all my stuff stolen I`d certainly be looking at Nikon. I bet the new Nikon D3x can show a clean pair of heals to anything (judging by other Nikon DSLR`s I`ve owned or used)
Thousands of photographers inc me have had some simply stunning results with the 5D1 and now we have a camera launched at a similar price tag(taking into consideration inflation it`s much cheaper than the mk1 was) but it ain`t a full blown pro camera that can handle every situation and as long as people realise that then there shouldn`t be any tears.
Different people put different criteria on their camera gear, mine is IQ and file size for stock work and very importantly for me at least is that all of my alternative lenses work 100% on the 5D2 and with AF confirm chips on board the focus is as close as on my 1dsmk3.
Sorry to labour the point but I have a fast economical turbo deisel car and a 1 ton VW transporter van on my drive and each one has a different tripod in them ready for the type of work they will be asked to do.
I fully understand why the 5d2 will not fit the bill for every job but will do for 99% of the buying photographer.
I`d better finish here or people will think I`ve got shares in Canon
Dave
Jan 05, 2009 at 08:42 AM
p.2 #205DII vs 5D AF...improved?
I donno how high level of AF requested from other people but I think the 5D2's AF is at least more than enough for me. It work excellent on 24-70 for tracing my kid and when I bought a 300/4 I test the AF again via a very shallow DOF to see the accuracy. This is one from my test photos, using AI servo for eye tracing, shooting distance is about 2.5 meters and remember his head is keep moving during photo.
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Jan 05, 2009 at 09:10 AM