p.4 #1 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
gmacklem wrote:
So Rosa Parks was wrong and shouldn't have done what she did? Maybe some people don't mind standing up for what they believe even if it has a cost?
The courts determined that Rosa Parks was right. And, the courts determined that Elaine Photo was wrong. Elaine Photo likely believed they were "standing up for their rights" and the court knew better.
p.4 #2 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
The courts determined that Rosa Parks was right. And, the courts determined that Elaine Photo was wrong. Elaine Photo likely believed they were "standing up for their rights" and the court knew better.
I am guessing that at one time the courts also thought Rosa Parks was wrong. So why are the courts decisions the gospel when one court just overturns another? They are in no more agreement with eachother than the rest of society.
p.4 #4 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
gmacklem wrote:
But why are you so quick to accept a Muslim teaching but have distate for Christianity? Does Christianity not have plenty of good teachings? Love thy neighbor as thy self, don't steal, don't covet, etc.
No discrimination there - the 'be good to man part' is a great idea and the god part is not applicable. And, the christian deal is not so clear cut - nor is the muslim deal.
p.4 #5 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
gmacklem wrote:
I am guessing that at one time the courts also thought Rosa Parks was wrong.
Definitely - as one advances in the court one tends to find enhanced sagacity. And, those fat old boys with the hoods, the dogs and the fire-hoses all had jesus as their savior.
p.4 #7 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Definitely - as one advances in the court one tends to find enhanced sagacity. And, those fat old boys with the hoods, the dogs and the fire-hoses all had jesus as their savior.
I doubt seriously they were all Christians, though I have no doubt some were. People, Christians included, can find ways to justify about anything. But you can fault Christians, not Christianity as it does not teach racism. As proof, Jesus was not caucasion, so whites are not supreme.
p.4 #8 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
stevenfox07 wrote:
So if I deny someone for a boudoir session because I don't do them (yes I am a Christian) should the same thing happen to me.
Nope - not at all. You do not do boudoir. You make no discrimination. If you advertised that service and then declined on the basis of sexual orientation - that is discrimination.
stevenfox07 wrote:
We should have the right to turn down anything that we want take no matter what the reason.
Yes, for any reason or no reason but not on the basis of a discrimination.
p.4 #9 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
stevenfox07 wrote:
So if I deny someone for a boudoir session because I don't do them (yes I am a Christian) should the same thing happen to me.
Nope - not at all. You do not do boudoir. You make no discrimination. If you advertised that service and then declined on the basis of sexual orientation - that is discrimination.
stevenfox07 wrote:
We should have the right to turn down anything that we want take no matter what the reason.
Yes, for any reason or no reason but not on the basis of a discrimination.
p.4 #10 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Nope - not at all. You do not do boudoir. You make no discrimination. If you advertised that service and then declined on the basis of sexual orientation - that is discrimination.
Yes, for any reason or no reason but not on the basis of a discrimination.
I do not shoot them because it's not what I do. I have never done one and do not think I am the best one for the job I also do not agree with them so how is that discrimination?
Apr 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM
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p.4 #11 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
gmacklem wrote:
But this is your belief. Their belief may be that by doing the wedding they are condoning the lifestyle. Who is right? I don't actually know. I do know it isn't up to the courts to decide.
I would say that if this is their belief, then it is not a Christian belief and they still have more soul searching to do. Christ himself ministered to tax collectors (who were chronic thiefs) and harlots. Was he condoning their lifestyles when he ministered to them? Of course not. When firefighter puts out a fire at a casino or a whorehouse is he or she condoning gambling and or prostitution? Of course not. When a restaurant owner serves a second helping to an overweight patron is he or she condoning gluttony? Of course not. When Christians provide services for others they are never condoning the beliefs and practices of those to whom they are providing services. Christians are responsible for their actions in providing the services. They are not responsible for the actions of their patrons or how they use the services.
As Christian this couple should also recognize that the government has a right (and authority given by God) to establish laws that restrain sin. Not only the sin of non-Christians, but the sins of Christians too. They should also recognize that denial of service to some and not others has often been done for very sinful reasons. For this reason as I outlined before they should also examine themselves and questions whether they are showing the love toward this couple that they are commanded to show or instead are they themselves acting in a sinful way. As Christians they should recognize their own propensity toward sin and flee from it.
p.4 #12 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Steve Spencer wrote:
As Christian this couple should also recognize that the government has a right (and authority given by God) to establish laws.
Now - this is not true at all. Though, if you want to comfort yourself by kneeling before a teddy bear, a bearded geezer or a bottle of gin - have at it.
p.4 #13 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Steve Spencer wrote:
I would say that if this is their belief, then it is not a Christian belief and they still have more soul searching to do. Christ himself ministered to tax collectors (who were chronic thiefs) and harlots. Was he condoning their lifestyles when he ministered to them? Of course not. When firefighter puts out a fire at a casino or a whorehouse is he or she condoning gambling and or prostitution? Of course not. When a restaurant owner serves a second helping to an overweight patron is he or she condoning gluttony? Of course not. When Christians provide services for others they are never condoning the beliefs and practices of those to whom they are providing services. Christians are responsible for their actions in providing the services. They are not responsible for the actions of their patrons or how they use the services.
As Christian this couple should also recognize that the government has a right (and authority given by God) to establish laws that restrain sin. Not only the sin of non-Christians, but the sins of Christians too. They should also recognize that denial of service to some and not others has often been done for very sinful reasons. For this reason as I outlined before they should also examine themselves and questions whether they are showing the love toward this couple that they are commanded to show or instead are they themselves acting in a sinful way. As Christians they should recognize their own propensity toward sin and flee from it....Show more →
Thanks, there is a lot to think about here. But lets take it a step further. Lets say that the wedding ceremony included actions that were done in ancient temples if you know what I mean. Would you still shoot the wedding? Where would you draw the line?
Like I said, I don't know the answer myself, but I am always searching.
p.4 #14 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
> I do not shoot them because it's not what I do. I have never done one and do not think I am the best one for the job I also do not agree with them so how is that discrimination?
If you're in New Mexico, you have to at least provide pricing and availability information - which is the issue in this case. The door was shut by a business on the basis of sexual orientation, or so the commission ruled. This violates the New Mexico Civil Rights Act. Check the laws in your own state.
p.4 #15 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Now - this is not true at all. Though, if you want to comfort yourself by kneeling before a teddy bear, a bearded geezer or a bottle of gin - have at it.
So far, I have been impressed that this thread has not resorted to name calling or other lowly tactics, but this is borderline here. You have no more proof that God doesn't exist than I have that he does so who makes you right? You?
The modern world would have you believe that all beliefs should be accepted, yet not all beliefs are accepted are they? Hipocrosy? I think so. I guess it isn't just limited to Christians.
p.4 #17 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
gmacklem wrote:
Hipocrosy? I think so. I guess it isn't just limited to Christians.
No, not at all. An assertion that whatever mystic phantasm plays a role in life and, more importantly, is the source of government authority demands notice.
p.4 #18 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
As a Christian, I believe the photographer had the right to refuse to do the wedding. If someone asked for nude photography, I am sure if the photographer refused, that would be the end of it.
As a Christian, I believe we are told to love the sinner... not the sin, and therefore, if we do not agree with gay/lesbian weddings, we have EVERY right to say NO.
p.4 #19 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
No, not at all. An assertion that whatever mystic phantasm plays a role in life and, more importantly, is the source of government authority demands notice.
Ah, but it is. If you truly accepted that other people have different beliefs than you, you would not be making fun of them. Yet you do make fun of them and if I am not mistaken that would be considered discrimination.
p.4 #20 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
shelleyc wrote:
As a Christian, I believe the photographer had the right to refuse to do the wedding. If someone asked for nude photography, I am sure if the photographer refused, that would be the end of it.
As a Christian, I believe we are told to love the sinner... not the sin, and therefore, if we do not agree with gay/lesbian weddings, we have EVERY right to say NO.
Well, you can believe whatever you like - but as a business in that jurisdiction (and I am sure in your jurisdiction) you may not discriminate.
