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Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel

  
 
Jan-Arie
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p.619 #1 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


JWilsonphoto wrote:
The R3 specs and pricing have finally been released. The camera has a number of innovative features, 24.1MP/6K video, and a truly unique AF system. The tab is 6K as well so, "weebeesee".


Got an email from canon with a article with some test shots with a rally car as subject and that looked really good lets see what the price is over here in euro's meh € 6099 euro so that's a nifty $7.200,08 US ok i go sit in the corner and cry for a bit

Sorry no photo's at the moment all the hard drives are still disconnected.



Edited on Sep 15, 2021 at 11:46 AM · View previous versions



Sep 15, 2021 at 11:39 AM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #2 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Hi Douglas,

Ray and I have been weighing the pros and cons for months now, still on the fence. My supplier called me this morning just to confirm that he has me first on the R3 list and I told him to keep me there. I'm hoping that Canon provides a copy to me prior to them actually shipping, then I can make a more educated decision.

I like a solid body too, attaching my Kenyon 4x4 and 6x6 stabilizers to a battery booster grip that is attached to the camera with one 3/8" screw has never made me feel very good. That's a minor consideration (except maybe to those on the ground below me), I wouldn't spend 6k for that reason alone. Shooting an R3 for a few hours will tell me what I need to know, I want to see what an image from that new sensor looks like. If I had to guess right now, I'd say I'll likely pass and get a second R5. All that being said, the likelihood of the R1 becoming reality in less than a couple of years is slim, so the R3 will be the cutting edge for a while.



Sep 15, 2021 at 11:45 AM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #3 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Hi Jan Arie,

I have seen all the YouTube reviews and B&H's roundtable discussion, it looks like quite a camera. The AF, for aviation and sports in general will be an incredible advantage, and the eye control feature is icing on the cake. One photographer described the AF tracking as so accurate that when a subject enters the frame it finds it, then when you activate the shutter button it locks on that subject and will not lose it regardless of it's speed or track. Combine that with the optical viewfinder simulation mode and the problem that I've had with the R5 failing to lock on just goes away. I love the R5, but I have lost numerous shots while the AF hunts around to find the intended subject.

The photographers who have shot the R3 say the 24.1 MP sensor produces exceptional quality imagery, but 24 MP is still 24 MP...................... On the other hand, if I loved the camera and slowed down shooting 45MP files, I would probably save the camera's price tag by not having to buy RAID Arrays...........



Sep 15, 2021 at 11:57 AM
DanNehmer
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p.619 #4 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


I too watch the BH Video on the R3. Sounds like a incredible camera in all measures. But I also listen to the comments of "only a 24 mb sensor" and wonder how much do we need? I have some incredible 24"X36" metal prints from a Canon 6D, 20.2mb camera so I truly wonder how much do we need. Heck, I have some really nice 24X36 prints from an old 30D with 8.6mb. And in my "simple" experience as a hobbyist, the biggest improvements I have realized in image quality is with buying better glass.

Don't get me wrong, more is always better! But a 50mb sensor only provides 41% more pixels on the X by Y axis, stated another way it allows about 40% more crop. That can be significant at times, especially when trying to save a photo you didn't plan well to start with. But I don't rely on that often, reaching for the 100-400 if I need to better fill the sensor with image.

So when I moved from the 6D/7D's to one of Jim's beloved 1D MKII, also a 20.2 mb sensor my image quality was marked improvement, much better than I was getting from the 6D in general and I attribute that to the far superior auto focus. I am not seeing much difference in photo's with landscape, but much of what I am shooting is "moving" and and for me it seems the autofocus is my most depended upon camera feature.

So would love to hear others opinions; do we need more pixels, a better auto focus, higher dynamic range (I would kill for that in landscapes rather than having to do an HDR or something) or put the money in glass. In the end I think the right answer is what best meets your needs and not one tool with fit all needs.

Cheers,
Dan



Sep 17, 2021 at 08:43 AM
Douglas L
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p.619 #5 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


DanNehmer wrote:
I too watch the BH Video on the R3. Sounds like a incredible camera in all measures. But I also listen to the comments of "only a 24 mb sensor" and wonder how much do we need? I have some incredible 24"X36" metal prints from a Canon 6D, 20.2mb camera so I truly wonder how much do we need. Heck, I have some really nice 24X36 prints from an old 30D with 8.6mb. And in my "simple" experience as a hobbyist, the biggest improvements I have realized in image quality is with buying better glass.

Don't get me wrong, more is
...Show more

Dan, I am a former Canon shooter. As I am getting more into BIF, sometimes even putting a 1.4 TC on 600mm is far from close enough, so high resolution for cropping definitely helps in some situations. I also use my cameras for landscape. A high resolution camera with top shelf AF and FPS checks all the boxes for me. I had the Sony A7RIV (61 MP, "only" 10 FPS) and the Sony A9 ("only" 24 MP, 20 FPS) and really wished the two could be combined into one. Many people, especially the birders, were hoping for an all-in-one high resolution body with best AF and FPS. When the Canon R5 came out, it was a shocker. Even in the Sony forum there was a 50 pages plus Canon R5 thread, until the A1 came along...

The R3 seems to be a fantastic camera if 24MP floats one's boat. Some folks prefer to have a built-in grip, some don't. I am with the latter because I use my cameras for everything, not just with big lenses. I wouldn't want the bulk and weight of a built-in grip if I lug the camera around for travel, streets, landscape, and so on.

You all have a great weekend,

Douglas



Sep 17, 2021 at 09:57 AM
Ray Swindle
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p.619 #6 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Douglas L wrote:
Dan, I am a former Canon shooter. As I am getting more into BIF, sometimes even putting a 1.4 TC on 600mm is far from close enough, so high resolution for cropping definitely helps in some situations. I also use my cameras for landscape. A high resolution camera with top shelf AF and FPS checks all the boxes for me. I had the Sony A7RIV (61 MP, "only" 10 FPS) and the Sony A9 ("only" 24 MP, 20 FPS) and really wished the two could be combined into one. Many people, especially the birders, were hoping for an all-in-one
...Show more

I think the discussion must begin with the individual's requirements for a camera. The current generation of camera specifications are fantastic...whatever brand you like. The issue is matching the camera to your requirements. Sometimes, we get caught in irons because no one camera satisfies all of our requirements. I remember when NASA director Dan Golden began using the phrase "Faster, Better, Cheaper". As a safety, reliability, quality guy I would respond with "pick two" since people's safety and mission success were the two primary goals, only two could be satisfied. A photographer may have to compromise their requirements, and you do that by prioritizing them. High resolution is a requirement for some due to their end product use. For me, I don't need high resolution for sports, in fact, the larger file size takes me longer to upload and send to my editor, so a 20 mp sensor is fine. When I am shooting team and individual portraits that will be printed large and hung in a gym, I want the higher resolution. Thus, I have two camera systems, 7D II and 5DS R, they satisfy my requirements.

However, my 7D II is getting long in the tooth with over 100k shutter clicks and is getting closer to the 150k end of life for the shutter. That makes me worry every time I am on the sideline snapping the shutter. I keep my 5D III in the bag to back up each of my cameras, it is my general purpose camera that can do it all, but not at 100% they way my primary cameras are...you know, "pick two". It doesn't have a great FPS for sports and it doesn't have high resolution for large portraits, but it is a great little camera.

All that being said, I think the most important observation is how fantastic the current generation of cameras are. Sure, we always want more, but that is the manufacturers fault because they keep delivering, we just have to be patient.

Ray








Sep 17, 2021 at 11:42 AM
Jan-Arie
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p.619 #7 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Highflyer of the day one of three.

14-5803
United States
Type:C30J
Lockheed AC-130J Hercules

20.000 ft

They Departed Souda Bay Greece this morning and made a stop at Spangdahlem Germany and now probably on there way back to Conus probably Hulbert Field









Sep 17, 2021 at 12:58 PM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #8 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


This R3 discussion is intriguing. Ray and I have been bouncing it back and forth since the first hints. Dan and Douglas bring up excellent perspectives. The bottom line is, as we all know, there is not one perfect camera. They are all just tools, very sophisticated tools, but tools designed to do a job. No one carries around a tool box that has one tool in it, the same applies here. I'll be the first to admit that I am spoiled rotten when it comes to gear, and BTW, Tony's triple encrypted gear acquisition protocol is not only brilliant, it's an absolute necessity

This morning I was up shooting aerials and my weapon of choice has become the R5, it's nimble, light, fast, and the file size and dynamic range is perfect for aerials and many other applications. Re: Dan's question of "how big", he answered it......"as big as you can get". Obviously some quality will be lost in the interpolation, but here is a shot of one of my client's sites. Aerial photography is really a misunderstood medium. Most people shooting aerials have one goal in mind, shoot as many sites in the least amount of time possible. Light doesn't matter, sharpness matters minimally, file size is of little concern, shoot as many sites as you v=can for a hundred bucks a pop. That is 180 degrees from my approach, I figure out the best possible lighting scenario, many times I scout the site on the ground prior to shooting it, and I shoot it with the best camera available. Most aerials can barely be used for "record", or a construction draw, what I shoot for my clients can be dropped into their annual report if they want to. Practically speaking, most aerials couldn't even be used in court if necessary, due to the inability to show detail. Way back in the late 70's I shot a project in Decatur Illinois, a shopping mall. I captured it twice a month from the air and even back then I employed the techniques I just mentioned. Well, three days prior to the grand opening the atrium structure imploded into the center of the mall. The general contractor was besieged by lawyers and lawsuits, fingers were pointing everywhere and everyone involved was running for cover. One thing was certain, according to the steel erection company, they had zero culpability! Basically the GC was all alone and it wasn't looking good. They called me and asked if I could make them dozens of 60" mounted prints from the construction sequence. A construction forensic team poured over the prints and, because of the quality, they were able to determine that the steel fabrication company did something in the wrong sequence and that oversight clearly cause the atrium to collapse. Detail is something no one thinks about until the atrium collapses, then it's worth it's weight in gold. Resolution............? As big as you can get..............







Sep 17, 2021 at 05:46 PM
RobMoser
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p.619 #9 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


That brings back memories, Jim. In 1969/70 I was working in a Kodak processing plant in Albany, NY. I did custom printing (all done traditional, big enlargers, trays of chemicals, not the automatic machines). At the time, the new capital buildings were going up about 4 blocks from where I was living at the time. The guy who was documenting the construction would bring in dozens of 4x5 negatives (all black and white) a day to get 8x10 or larger prints in large quantities. Normally, that wouldn’t be so much of a hassele but he used film packs, not sheet film. The film from the film packs were much thinner than sheet film so getting them to lie flat was almost impossible. So I used glass negative holders to make sure everything was as flat as possible. Unfortunately that meant that instead of two surfaces to de-dust there were now six. I had my trusty polonium anti-static brush (try selling something like that today!) but it was still a serious pain. I can’t tell you how many sheets of paper went into the trash because I was much happier cleaning the surfaces than hand spotting all the prints!

Yeah, go digital!

Rob



Sep 18, 2021 at 08:47 AM
RobMoser
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p.619 #10 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Looks like I lied; apparently you can still get the polonium anti static brushes! https://www.amazon.com/NRD-3C500-Staticmaster-Brush/dp/B01N0WFYEL.

Rob



Sep 18, 2021 at 02:54 PM
 


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Jan-Arie
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p.619 #11 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


It's this time of year when the male deer searches for the female deer
This is the oldest male deer in the Park called Hubertus.







Sep 18, 2021 at 02:58 PM
Jan-Arie
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p.619 #12 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


C130 J-30 Hercules 19AW Dyess AFB Texas Market Garden 2021

Bit on the wrong side lightning wise but still a good shot from this morning.







Sep 18, 2021 at 03:15 PM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #13 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Perfect lighting actually!


Sep 18, 2021 at 06:05 PM
Ray Swindle
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p.619 #14 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


My 7D II is really holding it's own and has been my work horse. I wish there was a Mirrorless equivalent. Anyway, I ordered an R6. It is on backorder like everything else during the pandemic, including the adapter ring. I hope my 7D II continues to function for my college football shots until the R6 shows up.

I do love it when the 7D captures the facial expressions...

Friday Night Lights (High School)







Saturday College...








Sep 18, 2021 at 11:36 PM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #15 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


RobMoser wrote:
That brings back memories, Jim. In 1969/70 I was working in a Kodak processing plant in Albany, NY. I did custom printing (all done traditional, big enlargers, trays of chemicals, not the automatic machines). At the time, the new capital buildings were going up about 4 blocks from where I was living at the time. The guy who was documenting the construction would bring in dozens of 4x5 negatives (all black and white) a day to get 8x10 or larger prints in large quantities. Normally, that wouldn’t be so much of a hassele but he used film packs, not sheet
...Show more

Hi Rob,

Man that brings back memories, loading 4x5 holders, dust, static flashes, heck, the number of times I had to remind myself which side the film notches went My first foray into large format was with the most economical Sinar model, I think it was about a grand, less lenses. Wasn't long before I figured out why its was "cheap", no micrometer drives on the rise/fall/tilts and swings, just friction locks and minimal scales. When I wasn't shooting through the back of the film emulsion, the images was generally out of focus, it was great. About six months of battling that SInar model was all I could take so I bucked up and dropped $15K on a Sinar P2 system, which was night and day. I still had to load the film correctly, but the camera was a dream to work with. Everything was based on micrometer drives so it was Swiss precision and the images were a joy to behold. Still, holders, dust, light leaks, $4.00 sheets of Polaroid, composing with the image upside down and backward. Shooting was tough enough with normal architectural subjects and product shots, business jet interiors were absolute torture.

I don't miss any of that, or the coolers I had to drag along to keep the film cool. I had a refrigerator in the garage dedicated to film storage. Sure puts things in perspective doesn't it? I wouldn't rate the experience for anything, but I sure love the little memory cards filled with zeros and ones. The other day someone was talking about how much they love their vinyl record collection.....................Yeah, I remember being able to "hear the vinyl"........................



Sep 19, 2021 at 08:32 AM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #16 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Ray Swindle wrote:
My 7D II is really holding it's own and has been my work horse. I wish there was a Mirrorless equivalent. Anyway, I ordered an R6. It is on backorder like everything else during the pandemic, including the adapter ring. I hope my 7D II continues to function for my college football shots until the R6 shows up.

I do love it when the 7D captures the facial expressions...

Friday Night Lights (High School)

http://www.rayswindlepix.com/img/s/v-10/p3164152662-5.jpg

Saturday College...

http://www.rayswindlepix.com/img/s/v-10/p3163997835-5.jpg


Nice work Ray! Once we are past Alliance I can send you the III if you need it, just let me know. I haven't had it out of the case since you sent it back to me. Chandler and I are headed to Gainesville (TX) for a STOL competition next weekend and then to Arkanstol the following weekend. I'm thinking that I'll shoot the R5 for pretty much all of those. Kind of hoping my Canon guy pulls an R3 out of his hat for AFW, but it seems unlikely.

When you get your R6 you will notice and adjust to a few mirrorless quirks. One will be the panning/blackout thing, another will be the quality of what you see in the viewfinder. They all tout the zillions of pixels that make up the EVF, but it's still pretty grainy compared to looking through the optical finders on our DSLR bodies. Kind of like the upside down and backward 4x5 image, you just adjust and go on. There will be a lot of things you will love about it, and there's no doubt that mirrorless is the way it's all headed so you might as well get your feet wet now, your back and arms will thank you.



Sep 19, 2021 at 08:46 AM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #17 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


I spent 10 hours yesterday shooting logistic sites all over North Texas yesterday, headed to Sherman Denison this morning to shoot a hospital. What great weather!


Sep 19, 2021 at 08:48 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.619 #18 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Jan-Arie wrote:
C130 J-30 Hercules 19AW Dyess AFB Texas Market Garden 2021

Bit on the wrong side lightning wise but still a good shot from this morning.


"JA"..Boy does this bring back long ago memories!!!!!
Great capture and the lighting is fine! Geronimo!!!!!!!
Dan





Sep 19, 2021 at 08:49 AM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #19 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


How many times did you throw yourself out of a “perfectly good airplane” Dan?


Sep 19, 2021 at 10:42 AM
JWilsonphoto
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p.619 #20 · Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel


Waiting for the light to come around the SW elevation of this hospital. The beautiful blue Texas sky is starting to be laced with white puffies at around 3,500’, perfect! What’s not perfect is the dumpster and piles of dirt in front of the building . They never mention that stuff…..


Sep 19, 2021 at 10:57 AM
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