Looks like we are doing prototype and then parts for the B-17 wings...( just internal parts and pieces )...WooHoo...Been hoping for this since last year...They have three now, looks like they will be restoring five and maybe five more over the next ten years...And I think there aren't many more than ten or so B-17's left in the world...Shooting B-25 Destination Tokyo next week with fresh paint that we made parts for last year and hopefully B-17 wing jigs...Still waiting on go for F-117 leading edges for McMinnville as well.
Bill Gass wrote:
Looks like we are doing prototype and then parts for the B-17 wings...( just internal parts and pieces )...WooHoo...Been hoping for this since last year...They have three now, looks like they will be restoring five and maybe five more over the next ten years...And I think there aren't many more than ten or so B-17's left in the world...Shooting B-25 Destination Tokyo next week with fresh paint that we made parts for last year and hopefully B-17 wing jigs...Still waiting on go for F-117 leading edges for McMinnville as well.
Bill,
Since all of the aircraft you mentioned are ex-military, and non-certified. How does the testing, and (materials, etc.) record keeping differ from parts manufactured for aircraft in current military service, or certified civilian/commercial aircraft?
Do you have to meet mil-spec for the design, materials, and testing on ex-military aircraft? If you do, do you have to meet the mil-spec when the original aircraft was designed/assembled, or the latest/current mil-spec? Or are currently acceptable standards (and record keeping) for certified civilian/commercial aircraft used?
We make parts here like I have for almost 37 years. Get a print, make it to spec, sometimes outside QC peeps do an inspection and of course we do as well. Once in a great while they will be here while we are forming parts or welding parts or assy/riveting. We meet MIL-SPEC on several different levels here including RoHS finishes. The B-17 parts are of course Jacks at Erickson Aircraft Collection & The Warbird Shop. Still making parts for G models, mainly G350/G800.
.
Ever look at an airplane print from the 40's ? ...OMG!
Amazing to see but hard to figure out but those old timers knew what the hell they were doing. We are back to doing parts for Erickson Aircrane as well and Siller, aka. Helicopter Express and more. Again, we just make parts for a lot of folks although mainly Pharmaceutical, Metal Deposition, Clean Room & Vacuum Chamber. Brammo parts were sure fun to make and the Arial Atom was too. Few parts for Diameler Chrysler up north as well for the electric semi trucks.
Zane Adams wrote:
....parts for the B-17 wings...( just internal parts and pieces )...
Just!?!
Lot's of special stuff in those Boeing bridge works!
You got that right. They had a custom extrusion made just for putting the wings together, looking at it as little as I know about planes it looked like it went on the wide and flat position as it sat but nope, that gets stood up on end and that is one of many ribs/spars/spines that make up the wing, this is just the bigger one. They did say I can take a picture this time but I doubt it, if I do I will post it tho.
In the 1990s the gov't began moving away from Mil-Spec standards to use more common Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) parts to reduce the cost. This change came in 1994 when William J. Perry issued what became known as the Perry Memo.
The new hierarchy would be:
1. Original North American Aviation engineering drawings
Original material callouts.
Original dimensions and tolerances.
Original heat treatments.
Original rivet types.
Original manufacturing methods where practical.
2. FAA-approved replacement materials
If an original alloy is no longer manufactured, an equivalent material with equal or better mechanical properties is typically selected and documented.
3. Industry material specifications
Materials are commonly purchased to standards from organizations such as:
ASTM International
SAE International
The Aluminum Association
For example, an original 24ST aluminum part would today almost certainly be made from 2024-T3, because 24ST was the pre-1954 designation for essentially the same alloy and temper.
In the 1940s the gov't was very invested in Mil-Spec standards, however, there may be no existing Mil-Spec, standard so the supplier will have to satisfy the nearest applicable/available FAA/COTS specifications to comply with the FAA requirements for flight.
Ray Swindle wrote:
In the 1990s the gov't began moving away from Mil-Spec standards to use more common Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) parts to reduce the cost. This change came in 1994 when William J. Perry issued what became known as the Perry Memo.
The new hierarchy would be:
1. Original North American Aviation engineering drawings
Original material callouts.
Original dimensions and tolerances.
Original heat treatments.
Original rivet types.
Original manufacturing methods where practical.
2. FAA-approved replacement materials
If an original alloy is no longer manufactured, an equivalent material with equal or better mechanical properties is typically selected and documented.
3. Industry material specifications
Materials are commonly purchased to standards from organizations such as:
ASTM International
SAE International
The Aluminum Association
For example, an original 24ST aluminum part would today almost certainly be made from 2024-T3, because 24ST was the pre-1954 designation for essentially the same alloy and temper.
In the 1940s the gov't was very invested in Mil-Spec standards, however, there may be no existing Mil-Spec, standard so the supplier will have to satisfy the nearest applicable/available FAA/COTS specifications to comply with the FAA requirements for flight....Show more →
I see MIL-SPECS all the time and tired of it but got to do it.
Most MIL-SPECS I see now a days are for finish or coatings.
.
Almost all Airplane parts are made out of customers material.
Like right now, Show Planes and Sky Designs ( RV Models ) they supply material and we make the parts.
Ray Swindle wrote:
In the 1990s the gov't began moving away from Mil-Spec standards to use more common Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) parts to reduce the cost. This change came in 1994 when William J. Perry issued what became known as the Perry Memo.
The new hierarchy would be:
1. Original North American Aviation engineering drawings
Original material callouts.
Original dimensions and tolerances.
Original heat treatments.
Original rivet types.
Original manufacturing methods where practical.
2. FAA-approved replacement materials
If an original alloy is no longer manufactured, an equivalent material with equal or better mechanical properties is typically selected and documented.
3. Industry material specifications
Materials are commonly purchased to standards from organizations such as:
ASTM International
SAE International
The Aluminum Association
For example, an original 24ST aluminum part would today almost certainly be made from 2024-T3, because 24ST was the pre-1954 designation for essentially the same alloy and temper.
In the 1940s the gov't was very invested in Mil-Spec standards, however, there may be no existing Mil-Spec, standard so the supplier will have to satisfy the nearest applicable/available FAA/COTS specifications to comply with the FAA requirements for flight....Show more →
Zane Adams wrote:
Bill,
You're talking about the spar tubes for Scott's airplane (and some others from what I understand).
Amazing work they are doing on those wings.
Without Scott's "ambition" that wouldn't have happened and the future of airworthy B-17's might have been non-existent.
Yes, neat indeed and great guys.
They had 3 there last year and I think getting 2 more and then 5 more after that.
I took pictures of one of the B-17 tails and a drone video as well to see how dam big that thing is...
It's on my website and utube page.
It ended up having too much corrosion inside after they spent all that time soda blasting the outside just to find out it's not usable...Wish they would have checked that first, then I'd have a B-17 yard ornament.
Looks like I might be leading a wildlife photography group on a three day seminar this Fall. I've been asked to lead a group of 8-10 photographers on this seminar visiting several migratory bird/wildlife sanctuaries in Florida. This is a little bit of a departure from my norm, but it is a pretty lucrative offer and may lead to similar opportunities. We did some location scouting last week with the organizers, it was a lot of fun with some great photo opportunities.
Danpbphoto wrote:
Our State Police have this model helo for MedEvac brother! A few of them to be exact.
Hope all is well and great to see you posting!
Stay well Marine!
S/F!
RD
Hey Dan, MD State Police replaced the Dauphin with the AgustaWestland AW139 a couple of years ago. I loved the sound that the Dauphin made when approaching.
gerov wrote:
Hey Dan, MD State Police replaced the Dauphin with the AgustaWestland AW139 a couple of years ago. I loved the sound that the Dauphin made when approaching.
Thanks for correcting me Gero!
All I go by is the rear propeller and how hard my "glasses vibrate"...
Dan
...OMG!
