p.1 #1 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Background: We all like to Google our own names. Type mine and nothing comes up (Australias Most Wanted doesn't count), but type in someone of importance and you may find some good stuff.
His name is Hideo Hoshuyama, the head designer of the D2x.
The link later, but its to do with a new type of CCD. This patent was lodged on Dec 11, 2003. Its technical and somewhat repetitive, but it has to do with having 3 light receiving sensors in the one pixel (similar but different to foveon). That is, the light is split and bounced and recieved by three sensors on the same plane rather than underneath each other. I have diagrams, they are in the link also. The pdf version with diagrams is dated Nov 21, 2006.
This is a gear forum, for discussion about gear.... so......, I thought it would be fun and interesting to hear what people think. Could it be in the next D?
Edit: change title to better reflect what I meant to say.
p.1 #3 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Just to break down the main points:
There is no bayer pattern coloured filters on the microlenses, so more light passes through.
The light effectively reflect within the pixel and the three primary colours are caught by three 'light recieving surfaces", first blue light is collected, then green, then red, and then IR is absorbed". So effectively, all the light is first caught by the microlens.
This has the ability to provide the highest level of photon catching (thats a nik'ism) and the lowest level of false colour.
Below is the actual abstract:
A microlens condenses incident light to an opening. Light passed through the opening reaches a first dichroic mirror. The first dichroic mirror passes blue light and reflects green and red light. Only the blue light is incident on a first light receiving surface. The first dichroic mirror leads the green and red light to a second dichroic mirror. The second dichroic mirror passes the green light and reflects the red light. Only the green light is incident on a second light receiving surface. The second dichroic mirror leads the red light to a third dichroic mirror. The third dichroic mirror reflects the red light. Therefore, the red light is incident on a third light receiving surface.
p.1 #6 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
dinoadventures wrote:
oh dear... this is quite a big deal indeed. how is this setup in terms of pixel density? more or less dense than the CCD stuff we're using now?
My guess is that pixel density, at least as far as that equates to total number of pixels and then on to resolution, is less of an issue than with current CCD sensors. Why? Because with greater light gathering and enhanced color separation a lower pixel rating should out perform the current system. Of course the proof is in the print, but this seems like a cool approach. Also, there have been hints of a new "revolutionary" advance with the forthcoming D, perhaps this is it. And, if it requires larger pixels, then perhaps that re-enforces the idea of a 1.1 crop sensor as well.
p.1 #7 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
If it does require larger pixels, then we could end up having something like 8MPs in a APS-C sensor. Therefore, the rumoured 24MP could be how Foveon did their marketing. That is, times 3 of course.
That would be fine by me. If I could get better colour, no artifacts, a sharper image, better tonal range, (and dare I say it) less noise... I'd be pretty damn happy.
Throw in some of those DX lenses we've been talking about....
p.1 #8 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Just give me less freakin noise. There's so much I love about my Nikon gear, but the noise and loss of detail is a borderline deal breaker for me. I print a LOT of 8x10's and larger and it's clearly visible when I have to push the ISO up. Frankly, it bums me out. I'm dangerously close to trying out a 5D.
p.1 #10 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Zachs wrote:
The just buy one. If its what you need, use it. They are tools. Frankly, I print even larger and the noise has never been an issue.
I have a 3200 iso 16x20 that I printed for fun to see how the noise was going to be, and it didn't disturb the quality of the photo at all.
Having your own tests and your own personal opinion is fine but when clients tell you that your high resolution images are "blurry" it will become a big enough problem for you to try to find a solution. Btw, she meant noisy I confirmed!
Agreed, noise is not such a big problem when it comes to prints. I print a lot of wedding stuff and I have no complaint. I even have a 4.1 mp image at ISO 400 enlarged to 20x30 just to prove a point to clients who are "technically" concern about gear, megapixel and blah blah. I also enlarge an ISO 800 D200 file to 20x30 with virtually no noise, retains beautiful details and sunset colors. But when you have to give high resolutions DVD to your clients, you best be careful about shooting above ISO 800 with Nikon bodies. Different shooters have different needs. Most of the people here shoot for fun, some shoot for galleries and some for newspaper. Noise is not a big enough issues for any of those subjects because the viewer is looking at a final product on paper. However, portraits and wedding are professions that clients see high resolution images up close and personal. When I shot Nikon, I always deliver prints first then the DVD...clients tend to understand better this way and I never have to explain myself.
p.1 #11 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Tuannie
Do you encourage or discourage DVD's in your sales approach. Or do your clients push for them?
How goes the overhaul? I’m just getting started. At the end of Aug, I will be building a studio/office. How refreshing this will be (mostly to have a bigger office). I’m sure you can relate. I still love my Nikons, but still want to own a Cannon and a few lenses. So far I have not run into noise issues, knock on wood, . BTW. I love your work and how hard you will work for your client (pic). That is my favorite shot to do with giggling bride’s maids.
p.1 #12 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
I know its just a rumour page, but these things have a habit of getting out of control. So please no bashing of Nikon, cameras, people. Would be great if we could keep this one on topic (for a while) because I thought it was interesting and worth a discussion.
Yeah sure, sounds pushy, so I'll just add one of these....
p.1 #13 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
nikt wrote:
Background: We all like to Google our own names. Type mine and nothing comes up (Australias Most Wanted doesn't count), but type in someone of importance and you may find some good stuff.
lol, try googling ReyGay... ...the only thing that isn't mine is the myspace link and the Groony link...
Yeh about that D2x tech stuff, I've read that ages ago...it's nice to be an engineer ...always fun to experiment with new technologies.
p.1 #15 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
My thoughts are there could be a couple of possibilities. Either Nikon is actually developing it for the next gen of cameras, or they simply patented the idea for later, make sure no-one else takes it in the meantime.
I do find it fascintating though. The mind boggles about the implications. Foveon did well to break out of the norm, but just hasn't gone anywhere. If Sigma didn't try and use their own mount, they may have had far better penetration into the market.
p.1 #16 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
ReyGay wrote:
lol, try googling ReyGay... ...the only thing that isn't mine is the myspace link and the Groony link...
Yeh about that D2x tech stuff, I've read that ages ago...it's nice to be an engineer ...always fun to experiment with new technologies.
I did, you get around. So you just stroll around patent offices when you're bored.
I saw an interview with someone from Nikon stating that their R and D budget was only 5% and they'd love to have more. Of course they would. I still bet its a substantial amound of money though. Success breeds more success I suppose. I would love to get some kind of update somewhere on their progression of this technology.
p.1 #17 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
with something as critical as a new sensor patented in 2003 and nikon have is in a range of bodys in 2007 i would be amazed if they managed it. and would love to know/ see how it performs against the latest chips.
p.1 #19 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Anyone know what the figure is for the actual percentage of light photos that get caught. I heard somewhere (from Canon or Nikon) that it was maybe 30%, but really can't remember.
p.1 #20 · Rumours: D3 something/D200 upgrades and technologies
Don't know the exact number, but I know it ain't very high. The point is slightly made reference to in the patent file;
"According to the first embodiment, light condensed by the microlens is led to the first to third light receiving surfaces without being absorbed by a color filter.Therefore, the photon utilization efficiency increases, and the sensitivity of the solid-state image sensor is improved."
. BTW. I love your work and how hard you will work for your client (pic). That is my favorite shot to do with giggling bride’s maids.
i would be amazed if they managed it. and would love to know/ see how it performs against the latest chips.