Jeff wrote:
...it makes me wonder if Canon is going to settle for EPS-H as the new standard for the '35mm' market, and let full-frame go to some other high-end system.
I'm sure it's been discussed and resolved, but it's not clear to me whether a truly FF system could ever have in-body anti-shake due to the constraint of the image circle presented by the lens. If Canon wanted to leave the door open for anti-shake (I'd be surprised, but grateful) then making the 1.3x crop their largest size would presumably help.
Jeff wrote:
I think you're missing the point here; what Canon does has nothing to do with its 'fans' on the low end (read: forums like this). So few people actually own full-frame cameras, your statement is based upon marketing spin, which I tend to take with a very large dose of salt, resulting in my rather high BP...
They're not going to abandon full-frame, but they could most certainly redefine it, to their own advantage.
So what if few people actually have their full frame bodies? I am deliberately regurgitating their marketing spin because that represents where they are heading and their overall product strategy.
If a company keeps touting full frame as being the professional body type of choice for a few years, it would look foolish to turn around now and retract all of that.
Of course if you just asking if they would somehow modify the idea of full-frame I'm sure that's possible sometime down the road as long and they're still beating their FF=superior mantra.
Personally I shoot Nikon and I couldn't care less about full frame. I'm just giving my observations of Canon business strategy, which of course could be completely wrong.
Jeff wrote:
Certainly less labor to wade through, to be sure.
What do you guys think about this camera being the ultimate demise of the 'Ds-Series' bodies? [there is a reason I post this here, so bear with me...] It was the 1DsMkII that was really due for the update, yet we get a brand new, from-the-gound-up remake of the 1D instead. With all the talk I've been hearing over the last two years about some completely new system at the top end, it makes me wonder if Canon is going to settle for EPS-H as the new standard for the '35mm' market, and let full-frame go to some other high-end system. Whether it's MF is anybody's guess.
Either way, my gut feeling is that if this new EF16-35/2.8 II is as good as they are suggesting it could be, that lens and this body could/would completely obviate the 'need' for a full-frame flagship '35mm' dSLR in the Canon line. Kind of like... well, Nikon's lineup, I guess.
What do you think of that?
Edited by Jeff on Feb 23, 2007 at 09:03 AM GMT...Show more →
It's an interesting thought. One of my first thoughts when I read the specs for the Mk III was: this will make the 1DsII obsolete, at least in its current form. After working on Canon's demo files for a couple of hours, I'm absolutely convinced. There are probably very few photographers who need more than what can be made within the framework of the 1DIII.
Rather than keeping the 1Ds series within its 35mm framework, it would make sense to develop something that competes more directly with medium format. Those who need it can afford it, and more competition within that segment is sorely needed.
My guess is that Nikon will be moving in a similar direction, that the D3 will be a D3HX, replacing both of the current models. That makes sense from an economical, practical as well as technological point of view.
rprouty wrote:
Why would Nikon shooters possibly be interested in what Canon is doing with their cameras?
Partly because of a general interest in camera equipment, but more importantly, at least for me, to see if there's equipment available that is more suitable for the jobs I'm doing. Although there are practical reasons not to own cameras with different lens mounts, the way the camera works, and the images that I can present to my customers are the deciding factor.
With different sensor sizes, different lens technologies, different memory cards, and not least a big selection of different batteries and chargers, all within one brand, any brand, the picture is so diversified anyway, that I find the old brand loyalty increasingly obsolete.
I am Nikon user and have been from the days of the F4. In recent months however i have been considering a move. I like the specs of this new Canon, it fills my current needs. Nikon better come out with a D3 soon or I WILL jump ship. I love the way the d2h handles etc but you cant get over the file size. So, Nikon it is up to you, but I can't wait too long.
By the way I have used Canon gear (1ds MkII etc) and thought the ergos are not as good as Nikon they are still usable. I still prefer the Nikon flash and CLS.
tuannie wrote:
Oh please! Someone is always complaining about something.
Canon listen after all. I really hated the double pressing of buttons to change settings when I was with Canon, now you press ISO, Drive mode and etc.. to change whatever you want. Batteries were heavy, now its like Nikon.
I predict that their next generation will exactly like Nikon in terms of ergonomics, this is great news. Ergonomic is ridiculous with 1D series. I mean most users have problem with Canon ergonomic than anything else right? I guess they are looking at Nikon and honing their current/future cams.
I do feel this cam is a bit overboard, geez...what will they come up with next....Show more →
Pavel wrote:
Greg .. why not just use the D200 chip? with new electronincs behind it.
Pavel you are a D2H guy right?
I love the images the 4 MP LBCAST sensor puts out. Presuming Nikon was able to keep the same characteristics, wouldn't a 10MP- 12MP LBCAST sensor be absolutely lights out?
padsterman wrote:
I am Nikon user and have been from the days of the F4. In recent months however i have been considering a move. I like the specs of this new Canon, it fills my current needs. Nikon better come out with a D3 soon or I WILL jump ship. I love the way the d2h handles etc but you cant get over the file size. So, Nikon it is up to you, but I can't wait too long.
Nice little party they are having next door. Well - you gotta hand it to Canon - they listened to their users. They said they wanted a 10+ megapixel camera in magnesium alloy weather sealed body - you know - like the D200. The only number that's a little hard to handle is $3,999.99. And yes, 5 frames per second tracks a moving model in the studio pretty well for me. I bet the bird shooters over in the Nature & Wildlife forum have already sent in their request to raise their Visa limits.
poisonpill wrote:
Nikon's ISO 600 is equivalent to Canon's ISO 2400+? Boy if I ever saw proof of that I would switch over pretty fast.
I'm not quite sure how this compares with a D200 (I've shot with a D70, D80, and D2X), but there's a full-res sample available now from the 1D3 at ISO 3200 and quite frankly, it looks amazing.
Mark .....I dont really care much about the underpinings ... just make it function just like the D2h ... perahps somewhat even better focus and tighter focus points with HSC and 6-10 megapixels - that would be a wet dream for me. If they made it the same form factor as the F6 ... that would be compelling against the size of the 1D. But while I'm patient - mostly because I must be one of the last dinasaurs that is happy with 4 megaixels most of the time better than more - I understand that most want more so I'm eager for it to get here. I just don't want to have to roll my eyes too much when everyone soon will start to cry how Nikon is doomed. I think they will still be here next year.
Ariel Bravy wrote:
I'm not quite sure how this compares with a D200 (I've shot with a D70, D80, and D2X), but there's a full-res sample available now from the 1D3 at ISO 3200 and quite frankly, it looks amazing.
Yeah that does look pretty good. Though as we know, ISO isn't a linear scale so it's still a stretch to say Nikon iso 600 looks like Canon iso 2400+.
Still good though. Although I won't go into chroma noise vs luma noise.
AJ Nadershahi wrote:
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
And how much you want for your 50 1.4?
Too late it has! I will be keeping my D200 and Nikon gear because i like them and they will have a place in my work at least in the short term. However I was going to update my 20-200 to a 70-200AFS, also get some long fast primes. I have been renting 400mm and above but now may need to buy at least one long prime. These were going to be my next big investment, but hey now I might as well go Canon now.
sample[/url] available now from the 1D3 at ISO 3200 and quite frankly, it looks amazing.
"amazing"?
It looks pretty good but in this case a real good shooter would have taken this shot at ISO 800 to drag the shutter and then opened up the subject with a nice balanced fill flash . Then there would be no banding on the back wall and better tonality and seperation thruought the image
jmcfadden wrote:
"amazing"? It looks pretty good but in this case a real good shooter would have taken this shot at ISO 800 to drag the shutter and then opened up the subject with a nice balanced fill flash . Then there would be no banding on the back wall and better tonality and seperation thruought the image
J
It looks amazing, just face it, although their seems to be some detail lacking on the faces. One thing I love about this is that the luminance noise is low, and shows more chroma noise (like most canon cameras). Chroma noise is much easier to remove with Ninja than luminance. I just gave that picture a run thru Ninja with a low pass of luminance, and default for chroma, and it looks even more amazing.
jmcfadden wrote:
It looks pretty good but in this case a real good shooter would have taken this shot at ISO 800 to drag the shutter and then opened up the subject with a nice balanced fill flash . Then there would be no banding on the back wall and better tonality and seperation thruought the image
...not to mention gotten the shot in focus!
For all we know though, the photographer may not have realized that a new button was added for focusing so maybe we should give him/her the benefit of the doubt.
Just for kicks, here's another snapshot at ISO 400.
Edited by Ariel Bravy on Feb 23, 2007 at 06:41 PM GMT
That really is quite amazing. I ran it thru NN as well and at 100% crop, it looked nice. BUT...Detail is def lacking, This maybe be due to the lens being cheap or the aggressive Canon NR.
canon just has strong NR. That's it. It looks good considering it's incamera at high ISOs, but I think people are forgetting it's noise reduction, not an actual lack of noise. It almost reminds me of a properly exposed d2h file that's been interpolated
I think using words like "Amazing" is a bit over the top on that image. I mean...the image sucks for compostion. And for God's sake, it's a couple blonds in a living room....don't do nothing for me. Get a brunette or a red head, and actually compose an photo...instead of some cheesy snapshot. Geesh!
?
I bet the bird shooters over in the Nature & Wildlife forum have already sent in their request to raise their Visa limits. 
...not to mention gotten the shot in focus!