Victor,
I tend to gravitate towards the 50 Lux ASPH more so than towards the Nocti. Definitely, I need to go out there and use that lens for real life shots. I like Edwin Puts' analogy, the Nocti resembles a brush while the 50 Lux ASPH resembles a sharp pencil. The bokeh of the Nocti at wide open is really something else, that's for sure.
Guy,
Your pictures from Yosemite are really great. So, you found time in your busy schedules to go out there to take more pictures, huh? I wonder whether Tiger Woods would play golf on his days off or while on vacation .
Agreed with Guy... again.. maybe it's our italian blood
I have the Noctilux but I'm thinking to sell it and get the Summilux asph.
From what I saw the Summilux is excellent, with very nice bokeh along with excellent sharpness wide open.
The Noctilux is rather difficult to focus at f/1 and while it has high contrast, at that aperture it's not really *sharp*.
Ok, not that sharpness is all, but it's not like the Canon 85L at f/1.2, so to speak.
It has also some CA.
I guess that at f/1.4 the Summilux asph is visibly better.
Noctilux bokeh is also strange.
While it's sometimes great, other times is a bit odd, maybe even disturbing.
I'm starting to think that the Noctilux was designed with film in mind - how could have been otherwise - in the sense that once cropped it misses some of its unique look.
1 stop difference is useful, but f/1.4 is not bad to boot... particularly if you take into account the much lighter weight, smaller dimensions, easier focussing and possibly higher IQ at f/1.4.
Marco,
Indeed, the Nocti was designed with film in mind. However, I don't like the way it vignettes on FF film but on the 1.33X M8, vignetting is definitely less of an issue. The bokeh is great in my opinion. These are two shots taken at longer and close focusing distance, respectively. Both wide open, while not not as sharp as the Lux ASPH wide open but I think it is plenty sharp wide open.
Macro,
The only thing you did not mentioned was flare resistance under night scene. What do you think under those conditions and how the two lens compared?
flare resistance is good in the Noctilux, not perfect in daylight against sun, but with small light sources like at night it does perform very well, also without coma.
It has a high contrast at lower frequencies, hence the images appear crisp even if they are actually not perfectly detailed.
Joshua shots are nice examples of this behaviour.
Usually really fast lenses are slightly "pale" wide open, but the Noctilux is contrasty.
Anyway I guess the Summilux asph is on par as far as flare resistance, maybe even better in daylight. Don't know about coma (non-circular rendition of light sources, particularly at the edges).
P.S. Btw I really like the vignetting of the Noctilux on film, something not easily obtainable in Photoshop. It gives a distinct fingerprint.
Strange bokeh, vignetting, contrasty but not really sharp wide open.... well... even with these *technical* issues the Noctilux is really a unique lens. Talk about "artistry look" instead of "clinical look"
Macro,
Well said! The reason I asked is due to under these small light sources at nights that I encountered in my night time photography which I really enjoy doing for a while now. Despite I have not get the opportunity to use the Noctilux for my works I plan to have it along with the 50 mm 1.4 ASPH version. I think highly of both of these lenses as a great one two combinations since I no longer have the Zeiss 1.2/55 100th Jahre any longer.
Your point regarding to the vignetting is also a great point in that sometimes vignetting is not always bad it is something that sometimes we like to have in our works.
Guy,
Your images that you just posted this morning are incredible to the point that I know some folks want to get the M8 now when they did not considered. What impressed me most about your images particluarly the wide angle lens is that you know how to set up your shot to achieve a great perspective looks even from the crop factor camera like I never seen before done. If folks study those shots you took they will understand what I mean. Well like you said before, you sleep and breath with your DMR so no surprise to see the kind of results you are getting with your M8. The passion is simply too high here and it is the only way to go.
The reason I am interested in the Noctilux is because I am a night shooter at times when I need to get out. Very lonely road for sure Guy. Under these circumstances I am so frustrated that my images has these flares from the street light sources. Do you remember the post by Jon Boring regarding to the Distagon T* 2.8/21 flares at night? It is a perfect example when a specialist lens like the Noctilux can be a saving grace.
-Son
Edited by Pham Minh Son on Dec 14, 2006 at 02:25 PM GMT
t_streng wrote:
I only got the Noctilux because I got it for a really good price, but then f1 can be fun.
What has been wrong with your 28mm?
The Nocti is definitely a love hate relationship for me so far. Not as sharp as the more modern lenses and the thoughts of trading it in for a summilux asph start to surface but every now and then you get an eye poping image from the Nocti with a signature that no other lens could reproduce and then wonder how you could have thought of selling it.
I'd love something a bit smaller and lighter though to complement the Nocti. Anyone have any experience with the new Zeiss 50 f1.5 sonnar?
Pham Minh Son wrote:
The reason I am interested in the Noctilux is because I am a night shooter at times when I need to get out. Very lonely road for sure Guy. Under these circumstances I am so frustrated that my images has these flares from the street light sources. Do you remember the post by Jon Boring regarding to the Distagon T* 2.8/21 flares at night? It is a perfect example when a specialist lens like the Noctilux can be a saving grace.
-Son
Edited by Pham Minh Son on Dec 14, 2006 at 02:25 PM GMT
Here is the Noctilux looking into some lights. I was using an early 1.06 firmware and unfixed camera, so the car headlights have the sensor problem. The exposure was 1/90th f1, 1250iso. To put it into perspective to how dark it was, when I shoot in Paris or London, exposures like this are 1/125th at f1 on 800iso.
The Noctilux is very good with bright light sources in the frame. Look at the conrast in the American flag in the upper left. The different coloured lights were distracting, so I like the B&W better.
http://www.robsteve.com/FM/L1040721.jpg
http://www.robsteve.com/FM/L1040721-3.jpg
For reference to big city lights, here is the Noctilux on E200 slide film, about 1/30th, f1.
Robert,
Thanks for sharing those great night scene images. You always seems to be able to post an image whenever someone asked as if you are a stock photo photographer for Leica lens. The images you posted makes more sense where vignetting should not even be a real issue with these night shots. What is your experience in acquiring a sharp version of the Noctilux? From what I heard the varibility in lens performance from the Noctilux is very high. However, your images shown that the Noctilux is quite a sharp lens even at F1.0.
-Son
Edited by Pham Minh Son on Dec 14, 2006 at 03:41 PM GMT
Rob,
Great shots of the Nocti, as always. Your first shot using an unfixed camera at ISO1250 barely had streaking issues. I could barely notice that in the car head lights; even some lenses can create that effect.....
For reference to big city lights, here is the Noctilux on E200 slide film, about 1/30th, f1.
http://www.robsteve.com/FM/Paris0002-pol.jpg
Notice though the different character of the lens on film (full frame).
More vignetting, less DOF for a given distance-subject, hence more of its elaborated bokeh.
No other lens can draw like it.
On the M8 the Noctilux has slighty less magic, though I agree with KJ that it's not so easy to part with it...
Pham Minh Son wrote:
From what I heard the varibility in lens performance from the Noctilux is very high. However, your images shown that the Noctilux is quite a sharp lens even at F1.0.
-Son
I think the variability is in the Photographer's not the lens Too many people try it at the near focus and are disappointed with the results. Most of the time it is just the subject or you moving causing the focus problems.
Here is it at the near focus range. I was focusing on Jack's left eye (right side of picture) , then he moved. Still it works as a picture.
Pham Minh Son wrote:
Pondria, I was not ...ing with CarstenW. Carsten is one of the finest FMer here and I have great respect for him. I only tried to stimulate the concept and hoping that someone will get the answer from the information that I posted. I already proove the concept of mirror vibration was a myth. In fact you even provided the data. KJbruin read well and got the answer.
Son, that is very nice of you to say, while I am arguing like crazy with you. I still don't get your point, but when my M8 comes back, I will try my best to prove what I can by trying your test and my own, and see where we get from there. In the end, I am not looking to prove that the M8 is better or anything, just to discover the truth about this.
.
- in the sense that once cropped it misses some of its unique look.