1 ) The brightest viewfinder would be a rangefinder.
2 ) Digital cine cams like the Varicam, F900, Viper, Genesis, etc all use EVF by definition. The EVFs in the Varicam and the F900, in black and white, look pretty damn good. Motion is accurately portrayed, guaging DoF is a crisply accurate endeavor, and you can even get real time overlays of clipping and such. The technology is there, it just costs more than a prism or mirror to do it right. It also destroys batteries.
timbop wrote:
Oh. Exactly what is that? Are you talking about a video-camera style viewfinder? Pardon my ignorance, but I have to learn somehow.
It goes just where the OVF does on a normal DSLR, and you use them the same way- up to the eye, so you don't get reflections and so on.
The ones they have on most point and shoot cameras are horrible, and have a lot of lag, flicker, you can't use them for MF and so on.
Hence there is a lot of resistance to using them instead of OVF's (optical view finders)
However Canon have said that they like the idea, as they can make a camera both smaller and cheaper - that was the advantages they quoted, there are others.
Until DIGIC III, about the only cameras which had the processing power to run an EVF at a rate and resolution most might find acceptable were the 1DsII, the IDII and the 2Dx.
DIGIC III means that the power should now be there in cameras at the level of the 30D, and screens are now way better , and probably cheaper - screens you might want to use instead of an OVF were previously just in specialist expensive equipment.
I don't know if they are ready to bring something out yet, or they will wait until OLED's (organic light emitting diode) screens are better,as they use much less power, but Canon are going to bring something out inh this line at some time, they tell us.
Regards,
DaveMart
OK, got it. Yeah, my old (1991) VHS-C video camera had one of those - I hated it. It was low res B&W, and I always felt like I was missing out on seeing what was really happening. I guess a higher res color one would be OK, but I still like to see exactly what the sensor sees - probably because I am an analog old fart inside a software engineer's body.
krementz wrote:
I have never seen a video screen with as good resolution/live motion as an optical view. Has the technology improved to the point one can't tell if you are looking at a video versus optical? I really hate looking at video screens; I much rather look at a print than my monitor, and I do not even own a TV.
There are probalby always going to be some who will prefer OVF - some people are more sensitve to flicker than others, and so forth, but the screens I am talking about here would have around 1MP, and refresh at 60fps - enough to seriously challenge OVF, although of course that would later be improved further.
Entry level screens though might only have around 250KP and refresh at 25fos - you wouldn't like them, but some would manage.
Regards,
DaveMart
timbop wrote:
OK, got it. Yeah, my old (1991) VHS-C video camera had one of those - I hated it. It was low res B&W, and I always felt like I was missing out on seeing what was really happening. I guess a higher res color one would be OK, but I still like to see exactly what the sensor sees - probably because I am an analog old fart inside a software engineer's body.
The tech has moved on just a 'tad' since 1991!
Regards,
DaveMart
timbop wrote:
Tell me about it - I am still coding in C! Someday I might catch on to this newfangled C++ gimmick.
Well, there is also a decent business for companies providing SW to convert (?) Cobol applications to present day. I am now 49 and I was too young to really use Cobol during my student years.
OK, this is badly off topic, but haven't I already done my share for the actual topic today?
Just a side thought - working on Canon's previous replacement timeline - what could have foreced them to delay the new 1-series. (Should we not get one in the next week.
What key bit of industrial info could have sent them back to the drawing board, asking for six months more time to bring something new out.
We've heard the rumors of a fuji Camera in a Nikon D200 body, what could be the payoff for this?
Since the D80 was released, all has been quiet on the Nikon front.
What you think guys - a new FF Nikon for Photokina with a Fuji sensor?
A new FF Sony perhaps?
Richie S wrote:
Just a side thought - working on Canon's previous replacement timeline - what could have foreced them to delay the new 1-series. (Should we not get one in the next week.
What key bit of industrial info could have sent them back to the drawing board, asking for six months more time to bring something new out.
We've heard the rumors of a fuji Camera in a Nikon D200 body, what could be the payoff for this?
Since the D80 was released, all has been quiet on the Nikon front.
What you think guys - a new FF Nikon for Photokina with a Fuji sensor?
A new FF Sony perhaps?
I have no evidence for this whatsoever btw. ...Show more →
I very much doubt that they are reacting to the competition.
I also doubt that it is the processing unit which is causing delay - it is too easy and cheap to throw more power at it.
What I think, and hope, is that they may have managed to increase the basic sensitvity of the sensor to give better DR and high ISO.
Now it is easier to use a new sensor design in smaller chips, as you don't get edge issues, so they would have the choice of releasing the 1DsIII now, and then in a few months the 40D with more capability in critical respects than the flagship model, or delaying the release of the 1DsIII whilst they sorted out more complicated issues on the FF chip.
Of course, this is being optimistic, and they may simply be optimising the software routines to geive more apparent DR in JPEG on the camera, and NR routines, but we live in hope.
Regards,
DaveMart
DaveMart wrote:
The way you construct you arguments can be misleading.
You state here 'not true', which to me would imply that you had knowledge which indicated the contrary, rather than that you were choosing to interpret the same information differently.
In fact, what I was saying was that the information from Geof says nothing about a fundamental change in underlying sensor technolgy, which would mean that you can get fundamentally different data with better high ISO and DR from the chip, but rather that they were processing the same limited data so as to enhance the image, and perhaps that would also only apply to the RAW.
That would be relatively disappointing compared to a real increas in the chips sensitivity, as you would be on ahigher base level and then could still carry out any software enhancements you had available.
Unless you have contrary information indicating a fundamental change in the sesnsor sensitivity, then your 'not true' comment does not seem appropriate.
There is also the further difficulty about your posts that you gave purported information about the 3D, atating that you had documents ot support this.
I took that at the time as being an attempt at humour, and subsequent posts of yours confrim this.
However, the fact that you rather dragged the joke out leading to some possilby being misled really makes it pretty difficult to take your posts seriously - this is not a personal comment, as I quite enjoyed it, but it is a reality that any information that you mihgt have is likely to be heavily discounted.
Anyway, we are only chatting about future cameras, so let's not take it too seriously!
Regards,
DaveMart...Show more →
That's quite a serious reply there Dave if we are just chewing the fat
I'm just pointing out Canon themselves say otherwise. Now it could be marketing BS, but they generally deliver on what they promise and 2007 is supposedly a year we see a new emphasis and possibly new designs. Why get worried about something that hasn't come to pass. Heck even an incremental improvement would make me happy.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
That's quite a serious reply there Dave if we are just chewing the fat
I'm just pointing out Canon themselves say otherwise. Now it could be marketing BS, but they generally deliver on what they promise and 2007 is supposedly a year we see a new emphasis and possibly new designs. Why get worried about something that hasn't come to pass. Heck even an incremental improvement would make me happy.
Any game is only fun is played seriously - including speculation!
Regards,
DaveMart
We since we are into speculation I have being thinking about the Email I received yesterday that I summarised and posted re DIGC III etc and the earlier info I got a couple of months ago re the 40D, smaller 5D etc and trying to guess what it means to release dates.
One guess:
Canon were going to release the smaller / cheaper improved 5D (AKA 7D?) at Photokina along with the new EOS 1Dx or whatever the flagship was called. The 7D would be full frame, DIGIC III, great resolution, DR etc for a little more than the Nikon D200 and aimed at market dominance and moving people towards full frame. Sure the 10/D/20D/30D buyers would ‘know’ there must be a great 40D coming at PMA (and grumble until then in these forums!), but in the mean time that 7D would look mighty tempting and anyone with a good set of existing Canon Lenses is not likely to switch for a few months wait. Also (at least in Australia the 5D is way overpriced at more than double the 30D so sells very poorly except when rebates are on.
Equally the new Flagship would showcase the DIGIC III and their DR / ISO and (hopefully) sensor improvements etc. Blow away those pesky reviews that are suggesting that the Nikon D2Xs could be as good is their flagship.
Of course PMA would see the 40D and the ‘surprise’ higher end 5D replacement to give them two presumer full frames. Maybe PMA would see the second pro body too
Now the imponderables:
What does the delay for a design change for the flagship mean (surely not anti-dust as it is hard to image this being so important to a pro). Maybe a sensor change or some glitch / improvement in their new technology (e.g tweaking the high end multipoint autofocus)? Anyway what does it mean to the timing? I would guess if it is only a month or two they could announce at Photokina for delivery later (October through December) – pros will either buy a new EOS 1Ds now if they need one for work, or wait if they would just 'like' a new camera). And if it is as good as Conon seem to think - many will me 'lusting' and waiting
But if (say) the delay was more than that, then maybe you would need to push the announcement of the new 1 series flagship back into 2007 and then what? Do you bring forward the 40D into Photokina? Or just go with the 7D and stage the release of rest every couple of months between now and PMA to maintain market excitement?
Alternatives
Of course equally the new sensor technology could be far from ready so we may see the 40D and 7D soon showing DGIC III etc (but no new sensor tricks), with the wiz bang new sensor delayed well into 2007 for the EOS 1Dx as the year of higher DR and ISOs etc… Not too likely to me but...
Or (but IMO very unlikely) we may see nothing more on the DSLR front from Canon (as they keep telling us) for a while as they save all their big guns for 2007 and live off the DSLR 45% market share they expect to get via the 400D! (This doens't make sense to me as Caonon would be releasing too many cameras at the same time - replacing all but the 400D in the first 3 months of 2007 and Photokina would be such a lost oportunity).
It's like a chess game - we probably know all the pieces (a complete EOS Replacement by March 2007 and the models etc,) but we don't know the players strategy, what the openning moves will be.
So what do people think is the most likely option for the timing of the EOS series replacements and why? (I know there are many more than what I have guessed at)
Geoff
Edited by Geoff Costello on Sep 22, 2006 at 08:35 AM GMT
What about new lenses? There have been a series of rumours about Canon having a major lens upgrade commencing 2007. Summarised these seem to be driven by a combination of:
• Wanting higher resolution, especially in some of the older designs, to take advantage of the extra resolution of the new full frame sensors (the 5Ds 12mp so so revealing of lens imperfections I can’t imagine what a 22Mp full frame would show!)
• A need to refresh some of the older designs (primes specially) with USM, L series etc.
• The opportunity for using their DO technology for some lighter smaller ‘big lenses’ to help sell to non pros who are put of by the sheer size and weight of some of the ‘big whites’…
I know nothing special / have no current source on this (and if I asked it would take 2-3 months for my friend’s next business trip to Japan ). But it will be very interesting to see. I could well imagine a raft of lenses at Photokina and PMA.
PS - I hope Canon have also learnt some lens quality control issues in this process, there seems to have been a pattern recently of issues with too many lenses requring second copies or recalls of the first batch etc...
So - what do people think re the possibility of a major lenses upgrade program and fhat would they see as being the most likely targets for new or replacement lenses?
PS - I hope Canon have also learnt some lens quality control issues in this process, there seems to have been a pattern recently of issues with too many lenses requring second copies or recalls of the first batch etc...
I SERIOUSLY hope you're right. QC has taken a serious plunge since the advent of digital.
Canon is, in my opinion, being pressured in the midrange by competitors. There's the D200, along with new offerings from Pentax, Sony and the rest. The 30D is a very good camera, but it's missing one major marketing advantage - megapixels. Marketers have pushed megapixels as the de-facto measurement of camera capability. Enthusiasts know differently, of course, but there are plenty of shoppers out there that want the 30D to be a D200, noise and all.
Canon did a great thing by introducing the 400D - putting the magic 10+ mpx in the low-priced DSLR market. In fact, I believe that this camera will be a big hit. Ditto the 5D. Despite the incredible controversy over the camera and full-frame in general, it's been what I'd call a hit and it represents a significant advance in the DSLR. It's sales pale compared to the XT and 30D bodies, of course, but that's expected since it's price is steep for many buyers. It is popular and continues to attract buyers despite being fairly expensive compared to the APS-C bodies.
Canon has a weakness in the middle - that step above the XTi/400D - which needs to be addressed/ In my opinion, the sooner, the better. I don't know better than any other speculater as to Canon's next move, but I think that they need to move with the 40D class next.
Of course, a new flagship is coming within 6 months, but I don't think that there's nearly the market pace at that end of the spectrum that there is in the more affordable range.
Geoff Costello wrote: And on a completely different topic
What about new lenses? There have been a series of rumours about Canon having a major lens upgrade commencing 2007. Summarised these seem to be driven by a combination of:
• Wanting higher resolution, especially in some of the older designs, to take advantage of the extra resolution of the new full frame sensors (the 5Ds 12mp so so revealing of lens imperfections I can’t imagine what a 22Mp full frame would show!)
• A need to refresh some of the older designs (primes specially) with USM, L series etc.
• The opportunity for using their DO technology for some lighter smaller ‘big lenses’ to help sell to non pros who are put of by the sheer size and weight of some of the ‘big whites’…...Show more →
Well, first, I'll say that the big 300, 400, 500, and 600 lenses are top-notch primes and don't need updating. The new 85 and 50 (assuming it's as good as I expect) are winners. The 135L is a winner. The 200/2.8 is a winner. The 35/1.4 is a winner. I see a pattern where Canon might be working through the prime lenses, improving a lens or two each year as they go. Hopefully, the 24/1.4 and 14/2.8 will be soon.
There are some non-L primes that are excellent (85/1.8, 100/2.8 Macro, etc.), but there are a few that need some improvement (the 20/2.8 comes to mind). I'd love to see Canon spend a bit to improve the non-L USM lenses, especially at the wide end.
I have heard rumors that the 24/2.8 - 35/2 family of lenses was going to get an upgrade. There are 3 or 4 that still use the same AF scheme that may get a change (hopefully a change for the better). At any rate, I have no idea when such a change would happen, if it's even true.
DO technology would be the perfect fit for a reasonably-sized 100-400 f/4L IS or 200-400 f/4 IS. Think of what a treat such a lens could be if it were 1/2-2/3 the length and weight of the 300/2.8.
I know nothing special / have no current source on this (and if I asked it would take 2-3 months for my friend’s next business trip to Japan ). But it will be very interesting to see. I could well imagine a raft of lenses at Photokina and PMA.
PS - I hope Canon have also learnt some lens quality control issues in this process, there seems to have been a pattern recently of issues with too many lenses requring second copies or recalls of the first batch etc...
So - what do people think re the possibility of a major lenses upgrade program and fhat would they see as being the most likely targets for new or replacement lenses?
I believe that Canon has tightened QC over the last year or two. It's simply too easy for today's shooter to stare at 100% crops, whereas yesterday, very few had 10X loupes. I believe that this ability is driving QC to a higher level. Consumers demand it. It's almost as though the new circle of confusion is the diameter of a pixel on the screen.
Most likely targets from my perspective would be to continue the systematic upgrading of the L primes, developing a biggish DO long zoom, and perhaps making moderate improvements to a few of the older lenses.
i agree with Tom, i needed to replace my 10d (which i passed on to my son) with another camera. the obvious choice was the 400d because the canon midrange is getting a bit past its sell-by date especially as the 400d now has the focusing system of the 30d + of course extra mp which makes cropping more viable. you can also fly around the functions faster than any other canon dslr i've used.
I have being thinking about the Email I received yesterday that I summarised and posted re DIGC III etc and the earlier info I got a couple of months ago re the 40D, smaller 5D etc and trying to guess what it means to release dates.