I am not inherently biased in the Canon-Nikon debates, as I have been a very long supporter of the Olympus OM line! When Oly went out of the pro market camera to the 4/3 format, I never found it impressive enough to keep me loyal, so I went looking elsewhere.
For about 20+ years now, I have belonged to an email group of 20-30 photo enthusiasts who have called themselves 'the F4 group' because of the mostly Nikon film camera system ownership by members. There were a few 'renegades' like me who used Leica or Olympus, and many also used medium format and large format in addition to 35mm film. Interestingly, over the years as digital evolved, more and more Nikon members chose Canon and suffered the pains of selling off Nikon lenses and buying new Canon lenses to fit the new dSLR they had purchased. This was after much email 'discussion' weighing the pros and cons of a brand change...for most, the economic disadvantage was outweighed by the technical superiority. For some, the sizeable inventory of Nikon lenses caused them to remain loyal and hope (not holding their breath) for a FF Nikon dSLR eventually.
Fist off I will say I like there cameras and lens.The problem I have with nikon is there warranty. They will not work on gray market period not even for money. So you have to be vey careful and make sure its a USA product. I got burnt for 1000.00 from Nikon way back when I did not know gray market was even around.
Mongrel,
I have used, and is using both nikon and canon systems. I am talking about my experience with these 2 systems. the difficulties I faced while using these 2. As you might have noticed, I am saying that I curently shoot with a canon camera. So, Obviously, I am not bashing canon system. I sold my nikon stuff by loosing money, so that I can shoot with canon system.
When you read someones comments, it is helpful if you read the whole comment and not just the one statement which is of your interest. otherwise, that will make the whole comment out of context. I was only talking about my personal experience. From the comments I used to see in nikon forum from canon users, it used to look like there are no problems with canon system.
I was only trying to make the point that when you start using one system, you will learn that there are many things you love and there are many other things which you don't.
I said, "Even if there are many shortcomings, every system has many users who know how to get the result they want with all the limitations in that system." So, I am glad that you are one of those people who knows how to get it work. I am trying to learn how to work around the issues I am currently facing. And, I am sure that I will learn to work around them in no time.
When I was shooting nikon, noise was the only issue I faced in the nikon DSLR body I was using. With the current canon camera I have, I have faced morethan one. Now, I am not going to stop there. I will learn how to use it and will know how to get the shot I want in no time. If I could learn how to use a nikon camera, I will be able to use one canon camera too.
As far as I am concerned, there are problems with every system. And there is no clear winner.
I have moved to canon, because I saw some of the canon advantages and was ready to weigh them over the SHORTCOMMINGS I thought they have
glowrider, please pm me/ inform me if you think my comments are causing trouble in your thread. I can delete / remove my comments.
Beji, please accept my apologies. Obviously, I did not include enough smileys in my post that I quoted you in. My little 'rant' honestly wasn't directed at *you personally*. I don't see anything in your comments worthy of being deleted or removed.
Mongrel
Ok, with business out of the way, let's get back to the discussion....
Why do I dislike Nikon? I don't, never have and never will. *Dislike* is wasted on an inanimate object like a camera. I like Nikon cameras, and if my budget every allows, I would gladly own and shoot with one someday.
No, I don't *dislike* Nikon but....
I dislike arrogant *people* who feel that simply having a certain name on their equipment makes them better than me or their equipment better than mine.
I dislike their snide condescending remarks directed at *my* gear when anyone with half a brain understands that good gear is good gear.
I dislike the fact that people aren't mature enough to admit the shortcomings of *any* piece of equipment regardless of brand.
I dislike people who either intentionally or through willful negligence spread misinformation about equipment.
I dislike people who hold one piece of equipment as being better than another based on SUBJECTIVE standards like 'ergonomics'.
I dislike the inference that a company 'gives away' gear just to make it *look* like more pros 'choose' them. I have NEVER seen any shred of evidence to back this up.
I dislike people who claim that full frame sensors are not an important development for DSLR's when medium format backs are NEVER made fun of, questioned, or put down the same way.
I dislike people who cannot for one second tolerate any discussion no matter how intelligent, on the merits of different approaches to problems encountered in dslr development without crying *troll*.
I dislike people who feel that if you don't own and use their brand of equipment you have no right to participate in discussion on *their* forum.
sorry....I have to stop, my wrists are killing.....and besides isn't this enough dislike for one day?
Just so I'm clear here's a smiley or two for you all...
Edited by Mongrel on Feb 07, 2006 at 01:26 PM GMT (Reason: exhanged the word dislike for the word hate)
most people make their buying choices for emotional reasons (psychologists, marketers, and advertisers know this), then defend their choice with rationalizations. When people who made different choices encounter each other, the emotional aspect surfaces and it gets ugly.
Luckily with enough experience, people get past it. We're lucky to have some of those here on this thread. But hang around long enough, you'll see plenty of the other.
glowrider wrote:
Most of the answers are rational in one respect or another, that's not what I was looking for.. But you seem to 'get' what I'm after here. Personal tales of fanboy-ism.
Well, I choose Canon because they had a better offer at the time I purchased my first camera. Otherwise it would have been Nikon. With camera's I never suffered from this 'fanboy-ism'.
But when I was a little younger, I was convinced that the Commodore Amiga was the best computer to have (something like sgtpinback told). Better than a PC or the Atari. I was a bit blind too for the progress that was made, especially in PC-technology.
Nowadays I'm older (and hopefully a little wiser ) and I see the advantages and disadvantages of both Nikon and Canon. And I stay with Canon, not only because I like its high-ISO performance (important to me), but also because I know I will win some but also loose some when I switch brands.
BTW - I initially bought nikon for emotional reasons. I had an association in my brain, when I was an idiot and knew nothing about photography, that Nikon made professional cameras, rugged, black, metal, and war-tested. Canon, I thought, made plastic consumer crap. (This was despite owning a very nice AE-1 that had been through a lot.) I'm not sure where this came from, whether advertising or pictures of Vietnam war photographers or National Geographic or what.
So you know what I bought? A plastic consumer crap Nikon and some plastic lenses. But hoo-ee! I had the same brand as those famous guys. I even told myself that it was because the Nikon fit my hand better, and I liked the ergonomics better.
Years later I can take a dispassionate look at what tools I need, and who offers them. At the moment it's the 5D. If Nikon had FF digital and AF-S wide/normal primes, I'd have stayed there. But I'm hanging on to my manual focus Nikons, and the classic Nikon glass, selling the plastic stuff.
and you know, having studied product design and engineering, I can tell you that the ergonomics of all cameras suck. They all suck differently, but still they all suck. There's just too much complexity to pack into a small interface. And still, I can pick up any camera and get the basics down in a few minutes, and get the details after a night with the manual. People blow the differences waaaaay out of proportion, for the reasons I previously mentioned.
Mongrel,
Please accept my apologies too. I was worried that I am getting misinterpreted.
Back to the original topic...
Thinking more about the hatred part, I think more people start hating the other systems due to the attitude of some people in both the systems.
For example,
I hate it when some DSLR user says the high ISO noise is not a problem at all. I am clearly enjoying the benefit of it right now.
At the same time, I hate it when someone says that crop sensors are crap and FF is the only way. I am clearly enjoying the advantages of a crop sensor. When I try to take pictures of birds and stuff, I really need a crop sensor. Now, I am not saying that FF has no advantages. Defenitly it has its own place and advantage. But, it is not for everyone. If I was mainly shooting people or landscapes, I would defenitly use only a FF.
I think the hatred comes along when we pretend that some of the advantages the other systems have are not relevant. When we find it hard to accept that there are some features or things out there, which can help us if it was in our system too. Also, if we think some of the advantages we have makes everything else less important.
People hate other systems due to mainly 2 reasons. Playing ignorant about the advantages other systems have or feeling superiority complex over some features their current system have.
I don't think anyone can do much about it. It is the way of life :-)
regards,
-Beji
PS: Personal tale of fanboy'sm... some time ago, I also felt the strong need/urge to defend noise
Right now, I can look at advantages / disadvantages of any camera without getting too personal about it. I have invested more money in canon than I have done with nikon. And, still if someone points out a problem with canon system, I don't feel too bad about it. If I know a way to work around the issue, I will tell them. Or, else I will start thinking about a way to workaround them.
Well, you see several posts in this thread showing this same blind brand fanatism.
Canon fanboys tend to limit a camera to a full-frame sensor and good ISO3200 image quality, Nikon fanboys are convinced that all Canon lenses suck and fullframe is just snobbery.They are reproducing the marketing campaigns of their brands...
I allways think they can only get some sleep after convincing people they have the best camera and having adviced at least two newbies to buy a Canon DSLR.
Honestly, I'm a Nikon guy shooting with Canon. I honestly think that the products Nikon have more soul (look at the D200). I like Nikon's marketing approach more (look what they did with the D70 > D70s : firmware upgrade). A canon DSLR has build-in obsolence (my 5D does), and is replaced every 18 months.
I'm using a Canon because I have had a very bad service of the Leica importer over here (who is also importing Nikon) and I will never ever again buy a product on which this company makes money.
Today, the FF 5D won me over . I'm satisfied with my camera and the lenses I have (Need some more, a 24TS-E and something long is on the waiting list)
Everyone asking my advice on a DSLR purchase gets the same answer : they are all very good, go check them out in the shop and take the one that feels right for you. If they insist, I advice them a E-500.
beji wrote:
Thinking more about the hatred part, I think more people start hating the other systems due to the attitude of some people in both the systems.
That's true.
When I read somebody bashing another camera brand I just laugh, because that person is a jerk. They probably couldn't take a decent photograph if their life depended on it.
Pros, and people who are professional don't go around bashing other peoples tools. In any profession. Unless of course if they have a problem. Most likely mental
It's how people are these days. They aren't taught to think independently, instead they conceptualize their identity in terms of brands. What they wear, what they drink and eat, sports teams, religon and now, sadly, politics.
Over and over you see it in our consumerist society.
Real photographers just laugh when you try to promote stuff like "Nikon has a better flash, wide angle, but Canon has more IS lenses and a greater range, full frame ....blah blah blah.
"Ya, and what you gonna do with all that swell stuff?"
People want short cuts, they want to arrive, it's not about the journey.
There once was a girl from Nantucket
Who, when offered a Nikon, she said chuck it.
I have a 5D, which has now set me free
And I put it on a friends card so I snuck it.
So let me summarize... Ford drivers (Land Rovers & Volvos drivers included) use Macs and Canon gear, have higher incomes, IQs and greater sexual potency.
Chevy drivers use PCs and Nikon gear and are better looking, have hotter tempers and still beat their wives.
Toyota full size truck drivers want to look like real men but don’t want to actually be real men (female transvestites) use Linux and Leica or those 6x6 90 megapixel Hasselblad backs and hire people to have sex for them.
greeneggs wrote:
Canon has better ads. Andre Agassi, those National Geographic endangered animal shots. Nikon has a rhinoceros tearing through a neighborhood and "see the lightography" (). The ads prove that Canon is a hip, yet environmentally responsible, company, whereas Nikon's ads seem disconnected from reality. I'd rather my money support the cooler company.
Yes but those National Geopgraphic "the world as canon sees it" photos really suck IMO. They seem muddy and uninteresting to my eye. Canon equipment can produce better than that!
I own Canon equipment, but I do envy the color and clarity of the Nikons. Rather than putting down Niokon so I can feel good about my Canon, I am more the gras is greener on the other side.
chetcarson wrote:
Answer: To prevent family and friends from investing time and resourses into that camera system.
.
Well, several years ago I switched from Nikon to Canon and now have several Canon DSLRs and L glass. When my sister's husband asked which camera he should get I reccomended he get the Nikon D50.
Why?
He had a budget and tried both the 350D and the D50 but the Canon didnt feel good in hand at al. The larger file doesnt matter. Image quality is very close. The nikon is also very easy to use and works well. Larger files arent always desired due to storage and image management issues. [not everyone has terabytes of storage and fast computers]. The camera works very nicely. Ive used it a few times and its very nice. He is happy with the choice.
The thing is not one camera is best for everyone. Each person has different needs/wants.
Why would you always want the top of the line if you actually dont need it or make good use of it? Well I guess it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and good inside but probably wont make your photos any better and then you have to deal with other issues [storage, processing speed etc]
) use Linux and Leica or those 6x6 90 megapixel Hasselblad backs and hire people to have sex for them.