The oval section of the Indianapolis motor speedway was repaved and diamond ground for traction. The indy cars picked up some speed because of it, but it looks like michelin wasn't prepared for it.
There's not much banking at Indy, I don't know the number but it's nothing compared to nascar(only) tracks.
The comprimise would have been a chicane added - requested and agreed by 9 of the 10 teams. Only Ferrari & the FIA did not agree. What a suprise !
The michelin runners offered to put all Bridgestone cars at the front of the grid, and that no Michelin runners would score any points - just so there could be a race.
Pretty biased statement there. Michelin knew the rules and had as much time as Bridgestone had to create tires to the new rules.
I was at the race and i can say that it was a bunch of BS that happened. Ferrari was playing by the same rules as everyone else. The rules were put into place to handicap Ferrari, Well the plan backfired.
Do you ever see a NFL, NBA, MLB game have the rules changed mid game No why should Michelin expect any different.
Michelin has been pushing the rule book in F1 to the ragged edge for quite a few years now This time it bit them in the butt. The USGP fans and F1 fans world wide are the ones that had to suffer from all of this.
This really surprises me. I rarely watch F1, but in MotoGP it is exactly the opposite. I don't think michelin has lost a race in as many years as I can remember, and the bridgestones are always having problems. Sounds dissapointing though.
pearlstreet wrote:
Because the problem is with the Michelin tires. These 6 are all using Bridgestone.
Possibly. But it always seems to be Ferrari that stop the changes - including limits on testing etc. there are lots of times this happens, not just once or twice.
Ferrari do what they need to do, but it is always in the self interest of Ferrari, and not the sport as a whole.
Others, such as Paul Stoddart were willing to give up guaranteed points, which BTW is worth millions of dollars to them in travel costs, because it was the 'fair' thing to do, for the fans, and for the sport as a whole.
Don't get me wrong, I admire Ferrari for their performance (over the last few years), I just think they could look at the global picture a little more often, especially when it concerns saftely, and life & death. Their reaction here is very short sighted. Their refusal to agree could well kill off any USA GP in future.
DaveEP wrote:
The comprimise would have been a chicane added - requested and agreed by 9 of the 10 teams. Only Ferrari & the FIA did not agree. What a suprise !
The michelin runners offered to put all Bridgestone cars at the front of the grid, and that no Michelin runners would score any points - just so there could be a race.
But, as usual, Ferrari never agree.
BULL SH**! Everybody knew the rules. Everybody knew that the track had been repaved and diamond ground. F-1 is supposed to be the class of motorsport, and Michelin is supposed to be the class of tires....and they waited until the 3 days they had here to figure this out. BULL SH**!
I was a credentialed photographer at this fiasco. I had a great time and got some great shots, but I have never been a part of something this messed up in 30+ years of going to races at Indy and being a fan and a photographer for all sorts of racing. I have been an F1 fan since the 60's, but Bernie has let F-1 get out of hand. I hope the Hulman-George family tells Bernie to scre% off. I hope Michelin never sells another tire in the US.
There were probably more fans at Indy today to see this race than F-1 has EVER, EVER had at ANY race. This was a disgrace. Long live open wheel racing and to hell with F-1....at least until they come to their senses and think about racing for a second instead of just money money money.
I just find it very sad that the Michelin teams admitted that there were problems, and tried to find ways of giving the customers/viewers a race to watch without receiving any benefit themselves (i.e. taking NO points for ANY Michelin teams, and starting from the back of the grid), but the FIA and Ferrari were unwilling to agree. I think that we the customers, viewers etc, and the sport as a whole are worse off because of this lack of agreement.
The way things happened, there is a lot of bad feelings, and there are VALID arguments on both sides.
Just for reference (and this is not a defence for Michelin!), Bridgestone had prior knowledge of the surface via their US company Firestone and previous race(s) held at Indy since the surface was created, whereas Michelin did not. Indy is not a recognised test track for F1.
Yes, it was a major failing on the part of Michelin, no argument from me there at all. I also think it will have a major impact on sales of their tires.
As I said, I admire Ferrari for their tenacious attitude to winning, Bridgestone also do a great job, but having been gifted the race points, I think they 'could' have done things differently in the interests of the entire sport.
It's a shame that a compromise could not be reached. In the end it will have done more damage than anything we can see or argue about. It will be interesting to see what comes from this over the next few weeks. Most of all, I feel for the fans that attended the event only to watch a test session.
Michelin screwed up but its the fault of the FIA and Ferrari?
Yup Michelin screwed up by trying to squeeze too much performance with the tyres. They could have switched to safer tyres but would have incurred penalties due to the rules, they could have used the original tyres safely providing they did not push too hard in the race. Instead they asked for the track to be changed.
Had it just been the 6 Bridgestone runners in this situation you can bet that everyone would be saying tough luck, Bridgestones fault. Likewise no changes to the track were made to address the Bridgestones disadvantages earlier in the season nor did Bridgestone ask for the one lap qualy to be changed to address their disadvantages over a single lap.
Why make changes to address the fact that the Michelins need to drive slower to keep their tyres safe in this race? Bridgestones need to be driven slower to safely drive on a cool track due to less grip.
In many ways Michelins issues were more about competetiveness than safety. They could either drive safely or competetively on these tyres, not both. The chicane would merely have taken away the Bridgestones competetive advantage by forcing them to slow down as well as the Michelins, the Michelins did not need a chicane to slow down, they have a left and right foot that can do that for them.
The Michelins were not held back in qualifying to make up for Bridgestones problems. Last week the parade lap was not given a minimum speed to make up for the Bridgstones need for a fast parade lap.
You choose your tyres and engines and take the bad with the good.
Funny enough, Ferrari have been behind in the championship in large part due to the Bridgestone tyres. It seems Schumi may well catch up due to the michelin tyres. When he was falling behind because of the tyres no-one was asking for concessions to be made to the Bridgestone runners. Now it is the Michelins performance in question and people are calling for people to knobble the Bridgestone runners to let the Michelins keep up.
Every single one would be penalised, their completely fair and legitimate advantage would be taken away through no fault of their own. The only point of the chicane is to slow down the bridgestone runners so that the Michelins can safely keep up.
This will severely hurt F1, especially in the US. Think of the fans too.
Yes I am a big Schuey/Ferrari fan and always have been since about 97. Michelin pulled out there loss, yes it was handled badly but such is life.
I agree with everythng you say - but wonder this ......
If Ferrari had been a michelin runner, and a different team (say Red Bull or Sauber) had been the third Bridgestone runner - I feel that the outcome would have been different. Of course, I have no proof - just a feeling.....
Didn't Bridgestone have tire problems in Barcelona I think? I don't remember the details, but they knew they had tire problems and Schumacher had to pull out of the race because his tires couldn't go the distance...Wonder why Ferrari didn't pack it up and go home when they knew their tires weren't going to be able to race?
I agree with everythng you say - but wonder this ......
If Ferrari had been a michelin runner, and a different team (say Red Bull or Sauber) had been the third Bridgestone runner - I feel that the outcome would have been different. Of course, I have no proof - just a feeling.....
Dave, you are of course right. Ferrari has the power...well earned power. You can love them or hate them but they do it right!
A couple of points:
1) 95% of the responsibility for this fiasco fall right on the backs of FIA and Bernie. Power corrupts and this is one corrupt organization.
2) The other 5% goes to Michelin. The big difference is that Michelin is a public company and really has to answer to the public. Bernie can screw up f-1 if he wants to and nobody can stop him. He has proved it over and over and over.
As far as Firestone having prior knowledge, sure they do. But, Indy is Indy. The track has been around in this same basic configuration for longer than almost any other track in the world. It may not be the best f-1 track, but one of the cool things about it is that half of the track is...INDY!...turn 1 and the main straight. Everybody knows that this stretch puts different stresses on the tires and cars than almost anything else they face. Indy is Indy. It should be no surprise to anyone.
Again, this (f-1), is supposed to be the class of motorsport. BULL!. Bernie came into town on Wednesday and made headlines by saying that the people in Indy had not done enough publicity. Everyone here knows that Bernie pulls all of the strings that connect to any aspect of all f-1 events. Nobody does anything, from publicity to tires without Berinie pulling a string and having his palm greased. The track was packed today despite what Bernie said. There were people here from all over the world. I talked to people from Holland, Italy, Gremany, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, England, Scotland. They all had a good time in Indy. They all spent a lot of money to get here. I just hope they are mad at the right people at the end of this day.
I agree with everythng you say - but wonder this ......
If Ferrari had been a michelin runner, and a different team (say Red Bull or Sauber) had been the third Bridgestone runner - I feel that the outcome would have been different. Of course, I have no proof - just a feeling.....
Nothing wrong with having feelings
I just hope they get it sorted all those fans must be so annoyed, I would be too if I spent all that cash to watch that!
No why should Michelin expect any different.
