Muzz wrote:
Yup Michelin screwed up by trying to squeeze too much performance with the tyres. They could have switched to safer tyres but would have incurred penalties due to the rules, they could have used the original tyres safely providing they did not push too hard in the race. Instead they asked for the track to be changed.
I believe that once Michelin were able to finally replicate the issue in their facility, they found that the replacement tires had the same problem, so changing tires and incurring a penalty was no longer an option.
I would like to have seen a race also, but letting the Bridgestone cars start at the head of the grid and the others behind (on a chicane-modded course) wouldn't have seemed like a good compromise to the Bridgestone runners. The non-points cars would have nothing to lose, and if a Ferrari were taken out, it would potentially lose points (if one of the other six cars finished ahead of it). Ferrari almost managed to do so without the Michelin runners to deal with...
I was under the impression that they didnt manage to replicate the issue so therfore had no faith in there tires (Thats what the dude on the TV said anyway)
They wanted a chicane to slow down the Bridgestone runners, if the Michelin tires were not good at going through the banking at high speed then they dont need a chicane.
They use less gas more brake
But then I suppose that would have been very risky as you would have 6 racers and 14 cars out for a Sunday drive.
slapshot-66 wrote:
Didn't Bridgestone have tire problems in Barcelona I think? I don't remember the details, but they knew they had tire problems and Schumacher had to pull out of the race because his tires couldn't go the distance...Wonder why Ferrari didn't pack it up and go home when they knew their tires weren't going to be able to race?
Bridgestone did have problems with there tire construction but it did not show up until the race. The problem was the tire started to delaminate behind the safety car something that they never had tested prior to that race.
The fact is Michelin had problems with the tire being cut down, causing Ralf and Alonso to crash out of the race. Michelin had plenty of data to use to come up with a tire for this weekends race.
As for putting in a chicane to slow down the cars not only Ferrari but also the FIA shot down the request. Plain and simple the cars were not setup suspension, Aero, or gearing for a chicane. Also putting in the chicane could of created additional safety issues. That turn has no run off room, a suspension failure would have resulted in a more dangerious situation than a flat tire would have done.
Also the tires that Michelin brought in were not tested out for the track and might have caused even more issues. The Michelin teams had the option of slowing down thru 12 and 13 but they wanted the rules changed to suit them. Sorry but in my book this does not fly with myself.
All i can say is this is the last ever race i will attend at IMS and also perhaps the last ever F1 race i will attend. Was too many bridges were burned under myself on this one sad day in motorsport.
There will be much speculation about this event... I'm interested to see how it all pans out. I've never been a fan of rules and regulations in F1. I have always found F1 to be the pinnacle of motorsports because it is not a "spec" series. It's not only about the driver like many series these days... but the team, mechanics, engineers, etc. To win (or even podium) at a F1 event is a unique thing because not anyone can do it... it's not any single person who is responsible for a victory.
What are my feelings on what happened now that I've calmed down a bit? I must first say that I'm a Ferrari fan and have not been happy with Bridgestone as of late... but over the past year the Michelin vs. Bridgestone battle has been the most interesting aspect of F1 for me. I feel that what happened today was the only way things could have been handled fairly for the teams, drivers, and points... unfortunately it was the worst way possible for the fans. Bridgestone has had tire problems, Michelin has had wet-weather tire issues, but that is part of racing. I think Michelin really dropped the ball with the tires that they brought, and they really need to realize that. It would not be within the rules (that ALL teams must follow) to change tires. The idea of adding a chicane because some teams had problems is clearly unfair. IMO, the worst thing that F1 could have done would have been to bend to the will of Michelin... just as unfair as anything done for Bridgestone and Ferrari.
I don't like Tony George, but I really feel for him (and the rest of the staff at Indy) today. I think Tony, and the others, did the right thing not participating in the podium ceremony. Personally, I think that Tony should send a nice fat bill to the FIA and the teams (who could pass it to Michelin) for what happened. All spectators should be given a full refund for tickets, and some level of compensation for "good faith". What shouldn't be done is stop F1 racing in the US. The USGP at Indy will still be a huge event, and Indy pulling-out would only give a cold shoulder to the US fans. I really do not see another facility that has the ability to host a USGP, so I hope that Indy remains on the schedule in the future. Regardless of what happened in F1 today I will continue to support the series... and the USGP (regardless of venue) is still an event that I must attend.
beast wrote:
All i can say is this is the last ever race i will attend at IMS and also perhaps the last ever F1 race i will attend. Was too many bridges were burned under myself on this one sad day in motorsport.
I understand you pain, but why would you never come to another race at IMS. IMS had absolutly ZERO to do with this. They let FIA use their facility and pay FIA handsomly for it. They have NO SAY in any of this. IMS and the Hulman-George family may not always be right, but they know how to put on a race. Maybe FIA should have let them put on this one!
Stripper wrote:
IMS had absolutly ZERO to do with this
Amen to that! I was glad to see Tony and the others not participate in the podium celebration... I actually chuckled when I saw that. I hope the FIA learns from this, but for some reason I don't see anything changing in the politics of F1.
Oh and my point, the FIA had to follow the rules they laid out, if they had'n't have then rules would never be taken seriously again.
The blame for this lies SOLELY with Michelin, no-one else. The Bridgestone guys were quite right to race, they shouldn't be penalised for this problem.
Incomplete Pet wrote:
Oh and my point, the FIA had to follow the rules they laid out, if they had'n't have then rules would never be taken seriously again.
The blame for this lies SOLELY with Michelin, no-one else. The Bridgestone guys were quite right to race, they shouldn't be penalised for this problem.
Sorry, but this just doesn't hold water. While I do agree that "FIA had to follow the rules they laid out, if they had'n't have then rules would never be taken seriously again", FIA is responsible for putting on the show. Putting on the show means preparation. Prepration means....well I don't have to go on. Blame for this rests on FIA & Michelin, but mostly on FIA. In F-1, nobody does anything without the blessing of.... Therefore, everything is their/his fault....period!
Michelin found it had a safety issue with the tires. They could not guarantee that the tires would last even 10 laps. In case you haven't been following the story, after Toyota had the problem on Friday, Michelin collected all mthe tires and data from Fridays test sessions and went ito 24 hour test mode, both in the US and France. At approx 5:30 am this morning it was determined that there was a safety issue with the tire and the teams tried to come up with a comprimise in order for all the teams to race. However
However FIA ruled any changes would represent a proformance benefit to the Michelin Drivers and would only the choice of running at a reduced speed through 13 (while Bridgestone drivers ran full throttle) or changing the tires (if the teams could prove it was
a safety issue). The teams felt that they could not sacrifice safety knowing that they had a piece of faulty equipment. Believe me, this was not an easy decision or one that was taken litely by the team managers.
I was there reporting on the race for a regional racing paper in my area, and ended up all night following the developments. Any negatives should be on FIA and not the teams. They were trying to come up with a comprimise so the could race without sacrificing driver / fan safety. FIA just wouldn't come up with a compromise based on the extunating circomstances.
Also IMS wanted to put the chicane in before 13. They really wanted to have a full field.
And John is right don't fault iIMS. The 500 is still a great race as well as Nascar's Brickyard 400. FIA uses Indy for the gp and they have Full sanctioning control. Not IMS. They got hurt just as bad in loss of revenue from fans leaving early and refused to take part in the Platform ceremonies.
not that its too relevant to the discussion as a whole, but on a photography note, I know a couple who went, spent a lot of money they hardly had, rented a lens they cant afford to buy (70-200VR) and were there to see a race and take pictures... not credentialed, not the greatest photographers ever...
but they got screwed.
I am sure they arent going to get their money back for the race itself, the lens, or their plane tickets....
Michelin, FIA, Ferrari, etc made a lot of enemies today...
I, for one, watch from the outside and haven't been to a race, but I would have considered the usgp or montreal a distinct possibility in the near future...
honestly, now, I wont even bother, and I'll really stop following F1 altogether, as I have with all open wheel racing....
the series' are screwed up... NASCAR at least has their act together, and this comes from a former kart racer who likes to turn left and right...
Adding a chicane to a track on the morning of the race could end being more dangerous as there is no thought to run-off areas etc. The Michelin guys could have run through the pitts bypassing the banking, or backed-off for the banking, or changed tyres during the race on the grounds of safety (at the risk of being reprimanded) - but they chose to retire.
If anyone's to blame it's Michelin and the FIA (with it's over-zealous rules).
slowing down at certain parts of the track would have made it just as dangerous as running unsafe tires. . . plus adding a chicane was actually supported by 9 out of 10 teams including the racetrack organizers. ferrari withdrawing their support when they found out that if the chicane was added it would no longer be a sanctioned race and points wouldnt be awarded. . . but we've come to expect that kind of behavior from ferrari.....
it isn't hard to see that ferrari lost their sporting ways a long time ago.
it all started when schumaccher came aboard and ferrari went international. we first started seeing the affects when team orders gave schumi his "first place finishes" taken from barichello
ferrari is desperate for points. they'll do anything to score them (at the fans and sport's expense this weekend). it isn't fair to say that they were able to bring proper tires to the race because didn't you notice how they had to double check their tires constantly despite the relaxed race pace?
yes, it was michellin's fault for not being able to engineer a proper tire. but this weekend, the fan's and F1 were the biggest losers.
