Just got back from a trip to Japan where my primary outfit was a Canon R6II with an RF 24-105mm f4.0L and an RF 16-28mm f2.8 STM. My "backup camera" was an OM-5 with a Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 G2. While I'm happy with the images I got with my R6II, it was excruciatingly painful carrying the outfit around all day and night as I walked several miles throughout Tokyo.
I currently shoot with three different platforms (Sony A7c, A7iv, Canon R6II, and OM System OM-5). I have my reasons for shooting with three platforms, and I have no intention of selling any of them to go with X or Y brand. This post is not about replacing or consolidating what I currently have; it's about exploring a dedicated APS-C system that has not only several good APS-C cameras in their lineup but also a good variety of dedicated lenses for their cameras.
Also, quick side note, I had but sold the Canon R7 because the AF tracking was terrible and I was limited with the lens options available for it. So, adding an R7 is definitely not an option for me. The other APS-C offerings by Canon are not weather sealed, and finding decent lenses is a very limited option at this time (I had and loved the Tamron 11-20mm f2.8 RDX, but I sold it together with my R7).
So, I'm looking for an APS-C body that is weather sealed and performs well (good AF tracking, good IQ, at least somewhat decent low light performance, and at least a bit of usable dynamic range). My OM-5 is a great camera, but I would like a bigger sensor (like an APS-C).
My A7c is nice and compact, but it is heavy. Add any somewhat fast zoom on it, and it turns into yet another heavy option.
So, since I don't have any APS-C lenses for my Sony cameras, if I were to buy an APS-C Sony I would need to start fresh with new lenses. Therefore, it's like I'd be getting into a new system anyway. So I can go with Fujifilm or Sony APS-C at this time because I have no lenses for them anyway.
For those folks who use or have used both Fujifilm and Sony APS-C outfits, whst are your thoughts?
p.s. I'm posting this on both the Sony and Fujifilm forums to get opinions from both sides.
I have both Sony APS-C and Fuji but for the latter it is the compact X100VI. For Sony I have the A6700. For travel I usually bring both of them although I seldom shoot with it at the same time. I like to do model shoots while I travel so for that I use the A6700 + Sigma 17-40/2.8 ART. The lens is somewhat heavy but it replaces a lot of my aps-c Sony primes. If I am doing the prime route---I'll take the Sonnar 24/1.8 and either the Touit 32/1.8 or the FE Sonnar 55/1.8. If I am strictly just travelling I would use the old Sony 16-70/4 OSS.
On the Fuji side I love the compactness of the X100VI and the film sims of Fuji is amazing. For portraits I use Fuji Astia although I normally shoot RAW + jpeg.
snegron7 wrote:
Just got back from a trip to Japan where my primary outfit was a Canon R6II with an RF 24-105mm f4.0L and an RF 16-28mm f2.8 STM. My "backup camera" was an OM-5 with a Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 G2. While I'm happy with the images I got with my R6II, it was excruciatingly painful carrying the outfit around all day and night as I walked several miles throughout Tokyo.
I currently shoot with three different platforms (Sony A7c, A7iv, Canon R6II, and OM System OM-5). I have my reasons for shooting with three platforms, and I have no intention of selling any of them to go with X or Y brand. This post is not about replacing or consolidating what I currently have; it's about exploring a dedicated APS-C system that has not only several good APS-C cameras in their lineup but also a good variety of dedicated lenses for their cameras.
Also, quick side note, I had but sold the Canon R7 because the AF tracking was terrible and I was limited with the lens options available for it. So, adding an R7 is definitely not an option for me. The other APS-C offerings by Canon are not weather sealed, and finding decent lenses is a very limited option at this time (I had and loved the Tamron 11-20mm f2.8 RDX, but I sold it together with my R7).
So, I'm looking for an APS-C body that is weather sealed and performs well (good AF tracking, good IQ, at least somewhat decent low light performance, and at least a bit of usable dynamic range). My OM-5 is a great camera, but I would like a bigger sensor (like an APS-C).
My A7c is nice and compact, but it is heavy. Add any somewhat fast zoom on it, and it turns into yet another heavy option.
So, since I don't have any APS-C lenses for my Sony cameras, if I were to buy an APS-C Sony I would need to start fresh with new lenses. Therefore, it's like I'd be getting into a new system anyway. So I can go with Fujifilm or Sony APS-C at this time because I have no lenses for them anyway.
For those folks who use or have used both Fujifilm and Sony APS-C outfits, whst are your thoughts?
p.s. I'm posting this on both the Sony and Fujifilm forums to get opinions from both sides....Show more →
Your Sony A7C can use APS-C lenses- Buy one and use it and see if that solves your problem. Then if its still not quite light enough, buy a dedicated Sony body for it-
The E 20 f/2.8 seems like a bad ass option with an A7C-
Or judging that you already shoot 3 systems- My gut says you are gonna buy the Fuji no matter what
I'm not intimately familiar with all the offerings of both. I do have Sony ff and aps-c gear.
With Sony, the A6700 falls after the A7Rv "system" (so to speak) upgrade. So, the A6600 and A6400 will have the menu system found in the A7iv and A7C. The A6600 uses the larger battery, the A6400, the smaller. That suggests, to me, that the A6600 is the easier fit. Same battery, same menu, etc. If on the verge of moving forward on the ff side to an A7Rv or later releases,, maybe the A6700 might be the better fit?
If you are used to the size, fit, finders, etc, with the A7C, grossly similar to the A6x00 series. Fuji has a broader range of body offerings. Body wise, I believe, Fuji has higher res available or a fast/faster stacked sensor offering but not both together?. But Sony focus tracking, speed and subject identification may be faster/better?
Sony can take aps-c or ff lenses, the 16-55/2.8 is well thought of, a bit to the heavy side, the 17-70/2.8 Tamron, more so. I don't know if either mount has a "Get this lens or lenses!" definitive, full stop, choice maker.
I think there are some advantages to having a combined, to some extent, aps-c and ff system, over "another system." If you don't hate the A7C, I'd look Sony first.
Craig Gillette wrote:
I'm not intimately familiar with all the offerings of both. I do have Sony ff and aps-c gear.
With Sony, the A6700 falls after the A7Rv "system" (so to speak) upgrade. So, the A6600 and A6400 will have the menu system found in the A7iv and A7C. The A6600 uses the larger battery, the A6400, the smaller. That suggests, to me, that the A6600 is the easier fit. Same battery, same menu, etc. If on the verge of moving forward on the ff side to an A7Rv or later releases,, maybe the A6700 might be the better fit?
If you are used to the size, fit, finders, etc, with the A7C, grossly similar to the A6x00 series. Fuji has a broader range of body offerings. Body wise, I believe, Fuji has higher res available or a fast/faster stacked sensor offering but not both together?. But Sony focus tracking, speed and subject identification may be faster/better?
Sony can take aps-c or ff lenses, the 16-55/2.8 is well thought of, a bit to the heavy side, the 17-70/2.8 Tamron, more so. I don't know if either mount has a "Get this lens or lenses!" definitive, full stop, choice maker.
I think there are some advantages to having a combined, to some extent, aps-c and ff system, over "another system." If you don't hate the A7C, I'd look Sony first.
Looks like the a6700 weighs only a negligible 16 grams less than the A7c, so they are roughly the same size and weight. Not sure how Fujifilms stack up in terms of weight. I'd like to be able to see some Fujifilm cameras in person, but unfortunately there are no brick and mortar stores anywhere near me.
RustyRus wrote: snegron7 wroteJust got back from a trip to Japan where my primary outfit was a Canon R6II with an RF 24-105mm f4.0L and an RF 16-28mm f2.8 STM. My "backup camera" was an OM-5 with a Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 G2. While I'm happy with the images I got with my R6II, it was excruciatingly painful carrying the outfit around all day and night as I walked several miles throughout Tokyo.
I currently shoot with three different platforms (Sony A7c, A7iv, Canon R6II, and OM System OM-5). I have my reasons for shooting with three platforms, and I have no intention of selling any of them to go with X or Y brand. This post is not about replacing or consolidating what I currently have; it's about exploring a dedicated APS-C system that has not only several good APS-C cameras in their lineup but also a good variety of dedicated lenses for their cameras.
Also, quick side note, I had but sold the Canon R7 because the AF tracking was terrible and I was limited with the lens options available for it. So, adding an R7 is definitely not an option for me. The other APS-C offerings by Canon are not weather sealed, and finding decent lenses is a very limited option at this time (I had and loved the Tamron 11-20mm f2.8 RDX, but I sold it together with my R7).
So, I'm looking for an APS-C body that is weather sealed and performs well (good AF tracking, good IQ, at least somewhat decent low light performance, and at least a bit of usable dynamic range). My OM-5 is a great camera, but I would like a bigger sensor (like an APS-C).
My A7c is nice and compact, but it is heavy. Add any somewhat fast zoom on it, and it turns into yet another heavy option.
So, since I don't have any APS-C lenses for my Sony cameras, if I were to buy an APS-C Sony I would need to start fresh with new lenses. Therefore, it's like I'd be getting into a new system anyway. So I can go with Fujifilm or Sony APS-C at this time because I have no lenses for them anyway.
For those folks who use or have used both Fujifilm and Sony APS-C outfits, whst are your thoughts?
p.s. I'm posting this on both the Sony and Fujifilm forums to get opinions from both sides.Your Sony A7C can use APS-C lenses- Buy one and use it and see if that solves your problem. Then if its still not quite light enough, buy a dedicated Sony body for it-
The E 20 f/2.8 seems like a bad ass option with an A7C-
Or judging that you already shoot 3 systems- My gut says you are gonna buy the Fuji no matter what
I really like the A6700. The AF is outstanding and the bigger grip fits my hand nicely. I’ve been using it more than my full frame cameras for my walks around town.
As for weight the Fuji X-E5 is only 31g lighter than a A7CII. I know that's not an A7C but it's what I've used. The Fuji X-T5 is 48g heavier than the A7CII. If you subtract the weight of the Fuji 23mm pancake from the weight of an X100VI it would be 47g lighter than the A7CII. With the Sony 40mm f/2.5 G lens the A7CII was close enough to the X100VI to make the advantages of the Sony to get me to sell the X100VI. I wish I had stayed with the X100VI, but now I know Sony isn't for me from the experience of using the camera, but that wouldn't apply to you as you're used to your A7C,
Sony did such a great job keeping the size and weight down on the A7CII/CR it all depends on the lens used to determine if it's the weight difference between systems. The one problem is there aren't a lot of light full frame lenses for Sony. To me the best were the Sony pancake f/2.5 G lenses. Once you move to zooms it gets heavy real fast. Not heavy in full frame terms, but compared to APS-C and m43.
Hallo.
Replace the A7C with a A7CR and you have a 26MP A6700 APS-C in addition. Buy some APS-C lenses Sony 2.8/16-55mm or Sigma 2.8/18-50mm. For Tele a Sony 70-350mm or try a one lens solution Sigma 16-300mm.
My two cents. BG
Driften wrote:
As for weight the Fuji X-E5 is only 31g lighter than a A7CII. I know that's not an A7C but it's what I've used. The Fuji X-T5 is 48g heavier than the A7CII. If you subtract the weight of the Fuji 23mm pancake from the weight of an X100VI it would be 47g lighter than the A7CII. With the Sony 40mm f/2.5 G lens the A7CII was close enough to the X100VI to make the advantages of the Sony to get me to sell the X100VI. I wish I had stayed with the X100VI, but now I know Sony isn't for me from the experience of using the camera, but that wouldn't apply to you as you're used to your A7C,
Sony did such a great job keeping the size and weight down on the A7CII/CR it all depends on the lens used to determine if it's the weight difference between systems. The one problem is there aren't a lot of light full frame lenses for Sony. To me the best were the Sony pancake f/2.5 G lenses. Once you move to zooms it gets heavy real fast. Not heavy in full frame terms, but compared to APS-C and m43....Show more →
I agree 100%!!! I'm on my second A7c. The first one I had was great at the time and I had several Sony and Tamron lenses for it including the 40mm f2.5 G (it took me three returns until I got a copy that was not decentered, same with the Sony 85mm f1.8). I sold all of it on a whim and regreted that decision so much that I ended up re-purchasing another A7c three months later (my current A7c). My current three lenses that I use on both my A7c and A7iv are a Tamron 17-28mm f2.8, Tamron 20-40mm f2.8, and Tamron 28-200mm f2.8-5.6. Good lenses, but not compact enough for an A7c.
I would probably be ok if I got just 3 primes for my A7c: a Sony FE 16mm f1.8 G, 40mm f2.5 G, and a Sony 85mm f1.8. That setup will cover most of my needs. Problem is that based on my past experiences it will be a major hassle finding Sony primes with no decentering issues. That's why when I had to decide between a 24-105mm f4.0 for my Sony or for my R6II, I went with the Canon RF 24-105mm f4.0L instead of the the Sony 24-105mm f4.0. Never had any decentering issues with any of my Tamrons or my Canon lenses. Sony makes good lenses, but it's a real hassle finding a good copy of one.
I have not shot the Sony APS-C so can't really comment directly. But as a guy who appreciates smaller, lighter cams for travel, I can add my own experience on this topic: First understand a few months ago I sold off my complete Fuji X system, 2 bodies and several lenses. In its place I acquired a Sony A7Cii as my travel body -- it's about the same net size as a Fuji XT5, which is a teeny bit smaller than the XH2. In my case, I made the swap back to full-frame because I missed a few of its the advantages; and in that the A7Cii was a big win for me. My current travel camera is the A7Cii (*see caveat below) with 20-70/4 lens and for me it's pretty sweet. What I appreciate is that I can use all my Sony EF lenses on the larger body A7R6 too.
My caveat is that I had not realized how compact Sony's larger cameras were compared to my past experiences -- my full-frame system before the Fuji was Nikon Z. Anyway, the A7R6 is only a little bit larger than the A7Cii, actually feeling about the same as my XH2 did, which felt still smaller than my Nikon Z7ii felt (and significantly smaller than the Z8 and Z9). Anyway, the size surprise with Sony has me wondering if I should abandon the A7Cii and just go to a pair of A7R6's. The A7C's have the advantage of looking like older, non-pro cameras. My main point here is if you can have full-frame in about the same size package as Fuji APS-C. What I cannot tell you is how the Sony APS-C compares size-wise to either Fuji X -- given the size of the full-frame options, the APS-C may be enough smaller still to satisfy you even more.
Jack Flesher wrote:
I have not shot the Sony APS-C so can't really comment directly. But as a guy who appreciates smaller, lighter cams for travel, I can add my own experience on this topic: First understand a few months ago I sold off my complete Fuji X system, 2 bodies and several lenses. In its place I acquired a Sony A7Cii as my travel body -- it's about the same net size as a Fuji XT5, which is a teeny bit smaller than the XH2. In my case, I made the swap back to full-frame because I missed a few of its the advantages; and in that the A7Cii was a big win for me. My current travel camera is the A7Cii (*see caveat below) with 20-70/4 lens and for me it's pretty sweet. What I appreciate is that I can use all my Sony EF lenses on the larger body A7R6 too.
My caveat is that I had not realized how compact Sony's larger cameras were compared to my past experiences -- my full-frame system before the Fuji was Nikon Z. Anyway, the A7R6 is only a little bit larger than the A7Cii, actually feeling about the same as my XH2 did, which felt still smaller than my Nikon Z7ii felt (and significantly smaller than the Z8 and Z9). Anyway, the size surprise with Sony has me wondering if I should abandon the A7Cii and just go to a pair of A7R6's. The A7C's have the advantage of looking like older, non-pro cameras. My main point here is if you can have full-frame in about the same size package as Fuji APS-C. What I cannot tell you is how the Sony APS-C compares size-wise to either Fuji X -- given the size of the full-frame options, the APS-C may be enough smaller still to satisfy you even more. ...Show more →
Sony cameras are pretty compact compared to other brands, but they lose their "compactness" the moment you add a fast zoom on it. My current Tamros are nice and sharp and perform very well, but they are far from compact. I've tried Tamron primes in the past but didn't care much for their size or rendering. It would be nice if Sony expanded their G prime line.
snegron7 wrote: Jack Flesher wroteI have not shot the Sony APS-C so can't really comment directly. But as a guy who appreciates smaller, lighter cams for travel, I can add my own experience on this topic: First understand a few months ago I sold off my complete Fuji X system, 2 bodies and several lenses. In its place I acquired a Sony A7Cii as my travel body -- it's about the same net size as a Fuji XT5, which is a teeny bit smaller than the XH2. In my case, I made the swap back to full-frame because I missed a few of its the advantages; and in that the A7Cii was a big win for me. My current travel camera is the A7Cii (*see caveat below) with 20-70/4 lens and for me it's pretty sweet. What I appreciate is that I can use all my Sony EF lenses on the larger body A7R6 too.
My caveat is that I had not realized how compact Sony's larger cameras were compared to my past experiences -- my full-frame system before the Fuji was Nikon Z. Anyway, the A7R6 is only a little bit larger than the A7Cii, actually feeling about the same as my XH2 did, which felt still smaller than my Nikon Z7ii felt (and significantly smaller than the Z8 and Z9). Anyway, the size surprise with Sony has me wondering if I should abandon the A7Cii and just go to a pair of A7R6's. The A7C's have the advantage of looking like older, non-pro cameras. My main point here is if you can have full-frame in about the same size package as Fuji APS-C. What I cannot tell you is how the Sony APS-C compares size-wise to either Fuji X -- given the size of the full-frame options, the APS-C may be enough smaller still to satisfy you even more.Sony cameras are pretty compact compared to other brands, but they lose their "compactness" the moment you add a fast zoom on it. My current Tamros are nice and sharp and perform very well, but they are far from compact. I've tried Tamron primes in the past but didn't care much for their size or rendering. It would be nice if Sony expanded their G prime line.
Understood, and why my travel zooms are the f4 G models and the new, comparatively compact Tamron 12-20/2.8. My primes lean to smaller Viltrox or Samyang f1.8 to 2.8 versions simply due to their size as well. The faster GM zooms make sense for more critical work. The main advantage of the Sony system for me and why I came to it, is all these lenses mentioned are cross-compatible between the smaller and larger bodies...
I really like my X-T5, 16-55/2.8 mk II combo for walk around shooting but there are plenty of small, travel friendly primes too. It sounds like the OP knows Sony products pretty well. I would suggest getting your hands on the Fuji's you are interested in just to get a feel for the handling and ergos. To me, there's a very big difference between the two and seems like such a personal choice.
snegron7 wrote: RustyRus wrotesnegron7 wroteJust got back from a trip to Japan where my primary outfit was a Canon R6II with an RF 24-105mm f4.0L and an RF 16-28mm f2.8 STM. My "backup camera" was an OM-5 with a Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 G2. While I'm happy with the images I got with my R6II, it was excruciatingly painful carrying the outfit around all day and night as I walked several miles throughout Tokyo.
I currently shoot with three different platforms (Sony A7c, A7iv, Canon R6II, and OM System OM-5). I have my reasons for shooting with three platforms, and I have no intention of selling any of them to go with X or Y brand. This post is not about replacing or consolidating what I currently have; it's about exploring a dedicated APS-C system that has not only several good APS-C cameras in their lineup but also a good variety of dedicated lenses for their cameras.
Also, quick side note, I had but sold the Canon R7 because the AF tracking was terrible and I was limited with the lens options available for it. So, adding an R7 is definitely not an option for me. The other APS-C offerings by Canon are not weather sealed, and finding decent lenses is a very limited option at this time (I had and loved the Tamron 11-20mm f2.8 RDX, but I sold it together with my R7).
So, I'm looking for an APS-C body that is weather sealed and performs well (good AF tracking, good IQ, at least somewhat decent low light performance, and at least a bit of usable dynamic range). My OM-5 is a great camera, but I would like a bigger sensor (like an APS-C).
My A7c is nice and compact, but it is heavy. Add any somewhat fast zoom on it, and it turns into yet another heavy option.
So, since I don't have any APS-C lenses for my Sony cameras, if I were to buy an APS-C Sony I would need to start fresh with new lenses. Therefore, it's like I'd be getting into a new system anyway. So I can go with Fujifilm or Sony APS-C at this time because I have no lenses for them anyway.
For those folks who use or have used both Fujifilm and Sony APS-C outfits, whst are your thoughts?
p.s. I'm posting this on both the Sony and Fujifilm forums to get opinions from both sides.Your Sony A7C can use APS-C lenses- Buy one and use it and see if that solves your problem. Then if its still not quite light enough, buy a dedicated Sony body for it-
The E 20 f/2.8 seems like a bad ass option with an A7C-
Or judging that you already shoot 3 systems- My gut says you are gonna buy the Fuji no matter what 😀 I'm trying really hard not to though!
The Fuji stuff is cool- Its not worth buying a new system for it though- If anything go buy a Leica and a 35 Cron and get a new shooting expirence-
Fuji, Sony Canon etc is all the same- You can get a compact kit in Leica with a completly new exprience. Fuji just gets you a new name on the camera with a smaller sensor-
My $0.02 having shot both systems...IF you want to get an APS-C system I would choose Fuji. There are more choices of body styles from small to Large-ish, and the the EVFs on the Fujis in my usage were better, so for me the overall shooting experience was better on the Fujis.
Fujis AF still lags behind Sony's unfortunately.
I don't personally like the ergonomics (or the looks) of a small camera with big heavy lenses, and my A7Cii can feel that way with most of the FF zooms of decent quality.
I have an XT5, XT50 and XPro2 and prefer the XT50 for travel, paired with small-ish primes and the Sigma 18-50 2.8 lens. The Voigtlander 1.2 MF primes are great fit on the XT50 as are the f2 Fuji primes, Sigma now has a few 1.4 primes that are around 200g that also are pretty comfortable on the XT50 (15mm 1.4 and 12mm 1.4). The 40MP sensor is very good, and for my application, better than what Sony APS-C offers, and the Fuji jpegs are excellent.
The experience of shooting Fuji is different enough from Sony that it may be preferable to have the Fuji APS-C system vs Sony if you already have Sony as FF kit.
Lastly, Between the small A7C series, the A6700 and the XT5, there is really not much difference in size, however the XT50 feels more or less like the OM5 size.
I can't say that I have ever shot the a6700 (have only held one in store) but if the IBIS in it is like the A7CII (which I have), then the IBIS in the Newest Fujis is better (not at OM5 level though). Anyhow, with the 40MP sensor, great Jpegs, good small size and decent ergos, and decent IBIS, the XT50 is a pretty compelling travel camera provided you stay with smaller lenses for the system (of which there are plenty)