p.1 #1What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
I bought an X-T5 because I wanted a smaller and lighter body than a ZF but bigger sensor than a PEN-F chasing better low light performance. When I bought it, I was expecting the IBIS to be at least comparable to the PEN-F, since the PEN-F claimed 5 stops and the X-T5 claims 7. I remember the IBIS of the PEN-F to be very impressive, being able to manage 1/2s handheld images that looked great, even with telephoto lenses. The X-T5 IBIS on the other hand, seems unimpressive.
I’m considering an X-E5 or X100VI for the smaller body but second guessing myself now if I’m not getting low light improvements from a PEN-F.
I’m curious what others have achieved handheld with the XT5 and where to set my expectations.
p.1 #2What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
Long time Olympus/OM user and far and away their IBIS is better than all the others. I have with my OM-1 or OM3 many shots at 1 to 2 sec that are rock sharp even with their heavy f1.2 primes. Sony had the worst IBIS (4 bodies with them including newer, compact A6700 and A7CR) even though they claimed 5 stops, their 85mm prime lens needed to be shot at 1/50 minimum.
Fuji X-T5 I have been shooting about year and its IBIS is good, but not up to OM standards. Say 1/15 sec for a fixed 35mm (53mm FF) prime is about as far as I will go. But I love everything else about the X-T5 and it has become my main body. Just took it and the X-E5 for 10 weeks in Thailand and IBIS worked for all situations, but in night markets for example, I would raise the ISO rather than shoot below 1/15 ss. The X-E5, being 2 years newer, is about 1/2 to a stop better IBIS, but that is about its only non size/weight advantage over the X-T5.
p.1 #3What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
SpecFoto wrote:
Long time Olympus/OM user and far and away their IBIS is better than all the others. I have with my OM-1 or OM3 many shots at 1 to 2 sec that are rock sharp even with their heavy f1.2 primes. Sony had the worst IBIS (4 bodies with them including newer, compact A6700 and A7CR) even though they claimed 5 stops, their 85mm prime lens needed to be shot at 1/50 minimum.
Fuji X-T5 I have been shooting about year and its IBIS is good, but not up to OM standards. Say 1/15 sec for a fixed 35mm (53mm FF) prime is about as far as I will go. But I love everything else about the X-T5 and it has become my main body. Just took it and the X-E5 for 10 weeks in Thailand and IBIS worked for all situations, but in night markets for example, I would raise the ISO rather than shoot below 1/15 ss. The X-E5, being 2 years newer, is about 1/2 to a stop better IBIS, but that is about its only non size/weight advantage over the X-T5....Show more →
I think what you are seeing is a direct result of the sensor size. The smaller the sensor, the easier it is to stabilize it.
p.1 #4What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
I am a longer time XT5 user and haven't had complaints about IBIS but also probably do not have a lot to compare to. But one thing I really like about the XT5 is the ability to switch to burst mode quickly with the switch below the ISO dial. I find that taking a couple of shots in burst really helps ensure a sharp photo, even with slower shutter speeds on tele lenses. I think most fuji tele lenses have OIS as well which works nicely with IBIS from what I have seen.
p.1 #5What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
I've owned both the Zf and Z5II, but in my hands the IBIS is better on Fuji X-T5, X-E5, and X-H2s. I don't remember if I ever did much low light shooting on the X100VI when I had that.
p.1 #8What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
chez wrote: SpecFoto wroteLong time Olympus/OM user and far and away their IBIS is better than all the others. I have with my OM-1 or OM3 many shots at 1 to 2 sec that are rock sharp even with their heavy f1.2 primes. Sony had the worst IBIS (4 bodies with them including newer, compact A6700 and A7CR) even though they claimed 5 stops, their 85mm prime lens needed to be shot at 1/50 minimum.
Fuji X-T5 I have been shooting about year and its IBIS is good, but not up to OM standards. Say 1/15 sec for a fixed 35mm (53mm FF) prime is about as far as I will go. But I love everything else about the X-T5 and it has become my main body. Just took it and the X-E5 for 10 weeks in Thailand and IBIS worked for all situations, but in night markets for example, I would raise the ISO rather than shoot below 1/15 ss. The X-E5, being 2 years newer, is about 1/2 to a stop better IBIS, but that is about its only non size/weight advantage over the X-T5.I think what you are seeing is a direct result of the sensor size. The smaller the sensor, the easier it is to stabilize it.
No doubt the size matters, yet there are also real differences between different camera systems.
For example, from my experience, the IBIS of OM-1 II is better than that of G9 II, although both have micro-four-thirds sensors.
With the former, hand-held 1 - 2 s exposures are relatively easy.
The large-format GFX100S II has an excellent IBIS. With wide-to-normal focal lengths, my minimum shutter speed is 1/2s (saved with the settings to custom sets 1 and 2) and I am reasonably confident shooting with this slow SS in low light.
With the original Sony A1, I had more confidence when shooting with 1/10s at the slowest - I would say there might be about a stop (or two) of difference in IBIS between the GFX100S II and A1. I expect that the newest Sony cameras have better IBIS than the original A1.
I was pleasantly surprised by the IBIS of the GFX100S II with the GF500 f/5.6 lens. In this case my borderline SS is 1/15s.
"Borderline" here means a good probability (50% or better) of getting a sharp image.
What surprised me in this case was that 1/15s was the borderline SS in my hands when shooting with the OM-1 II and the Olympus 300mm f/4 lens - the system that should have had better image stabilization with an IS-equipped telephoto lens.
At the end, I believe that the differences are more due to differences in technology and implementation of image stabilization in different systems. The size of the sensor plays a role but perhaps less significant.
p.1 #9What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
Because the XT5 has a higher resolution, you'll probably notice more camera shake than in smaller resolution models like the OM-1, OM-3 and PEN-F (all around 20 megapixels IIRC, compared to the XT5's 40 megapixels).
I've achieved pretty decent results on my XT4, with sharp images at 1/8 sec, maybe lower?
If you're struggling to get sharp handheld photos, why not increase the ISO? The XT5 and XE5 have excellent noise handling at high ISOs, and modern noise reduction software basically renders noise a trivial issue anyway.
p.1 #10What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
Note, the 7 stops claimed IS is ONLY if if the lens also has image stabilization. You won't get that with one of the typical prime lenses as Fuji only reserves lens IS for their zooms.
p.1 #11What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
Winsome Dove wrote:
Note, the 7 stops claimed IS is ONLY if if the lens also has image stabilization. You won't get that with one of the typical prime lenses as Fuji only reserves lens IS for their zooms.
According to the specs the 7 stops is With XF35mmF1.4 R lens mounted
p.1 #12What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
AZ Photo wrote: Winsome Dove wroteNote, the 7 stops claimed IS is ONLY if if the lens also has image stabilization. You won't get that with one of the typical prime lenses as Fuji only reserves lens IS for their zooms.According to the specs the 7 stops is With XF35mmF1.4 R lens mounted
My bad.. sorta -- you're right. Though for the OP if considering telephoto focal lengths, then it appears that lens OIS is necessary to maximize the overall stops of IS. I'm curious if OIS would help if it was in their 90mm prime, but it isn't. Though it is present in their 80mm macro prime. Not sure where OIS becomes necessary exactly to achieve the 7 stops. Eg. it'd be interesting to test something like the 50-140 zoom to see where turning OIS on/off along the FL range helps -- though I understand it's impossible to turn OIS off, but have IBIS still on.
p.1 #13What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
brianbeatty wrote:
I've found that 1/10s is doable with lower focal lengths - 33mm and under for example. Longer than that I try to stay at 1/15-1/20s to be sure.
AZ Photo wrote: Winsome Dove wroteNote, the 7 stops claimed IS is ONLY if if the lens also has image stabilization. You won't get that with one of the typical prime lenses as Fuji only reserves lens IS for their zooms.According to the specs the 7 stops is With XF35mmF1.4 R lens mounted
I just laugh when I hear Fuji and Sony make wild 6 or 7 stop IBIS claims. Both companies IBIS claims are totally false, as the math in actual use does not add up. It a marketing scam, just like the EISA awards, IMHO.
My experience and others posting here is that MAYBE 1/6 of second handheld is doable with the X-E5 when using the XF 35 f1.4 lens (52.5mm FF). That is 3 stops of IBIS maximum, not 7: 1/50>1/25>1/12>1/6 is 3 stops any way you look at it. With my X-T5, I don't go below 1/15ss, so for me that is 2 stops, same mimimum ss with my Sony A7CR. Has anyone here posted that they can get in focus shots @ 2 or 3 seconds handheld with the Fujifilm (or Sony) IBIS? Not that I have seen.
With my M4/3 OM-1 or OM-3 I can shoot at 2 seconds + handheld, that is a true 7 stops of IBIS.
p.1 #14What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
I’d have to go back and look at EXIF to answer this accurately, but I now I’ve been able to (very carefully) handhold shots down to at least a quarter of a second using the 27mm f/2.8 on the XT5.
With all such things, it isn’t exactly a binary where there is some specific point at which it works perfectly and beyond which it always fails. Essentially your success rate starts to drop the further you push things — whether you have an IBIS-equipped camera or not. (For example, you’l hear about people who say, “I can handhold my camera at 1/15 second,” but that almost certainly doesn’t mean that they never get motion blur at that speed — more likely it means that they’ve made it work sometimes.)
As to how many stops of IBIS improvement you actually see, the truth lies somewhere short of the best-case claims from all of the camera manufacturers, which are based on test parameters that likely define a certain threshold of motion at a certain percentage of successes.
Bottom line: IBIS is pretty useful in some real world situations that photographers shooting handheld are likely to encounter — relatively still subjects in low light being among them. I do a significant amount of handheld night street photography, and it has allowed me to do things that I could not do without it.
p.1 #15What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
SpecFoto wrote: brianbeatty wroteI've found that 1/10s is doable with lower focal lengths - 33mm and under for example. Longer than that I try to stay at 1/15-1/20s to be sure.AZ Photo wroteWinsome Dove wroteNote, the 7 stops claimed IS is ONLY if if the lens also has image stabilization. You won't get that with one of the typical prime lenses as Fuji only reserves lens IS for their zooms.According to the specs the 7 stops is With XF35mmF1.4 R lens mountedI just laugh when I hear Fuji and Sony make wild 6 or 7 stop IBIS claims. Both companies IBIS claims are totally false, as the math in actual use does not add up. It a marketing scam, just like the EISA awards, IMHO.
My experience and others posting here is that MAYBE 1/6 of second handheld is doable with the X-E5 when using the XF 35 f1.4 lens (52.5mm FF). That is 3 stops of IBIS maximum, not 7: 1/50>1/25>1/12>1/6 is 3 stops any way you look at it. With my X-T5, I don't go below 1/15ss, so for me that is 2 stops, same mimimum ss with my Sony A7CR. Has anyone here posted that they can get in focus shots @ 2 or 3 seconds handheld with the Fujifilm (or Sony) IBIS? Not that I have seen.
With my M4/3 OM-1 or OM-3 I can shoot at 2 seconds + handheld, that is a true 7 stops of IBIS.
...Show more →
Could be they base on detectability at a specific reproduction size? For example, looking at a 40mp digital photo image at 100% vs a 35mm film negative used to make an 8x10 enlargement would be very different things.
p.1 #16What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
On the X-T5 aboiut 1/8th is my limit on focal lengths within the normal range, i.e. 35-50mm equivalent. 1/4th or 1/2 will mostly get a good one if I shoot burst or say braced on a railing shooting a waterfall. On the 100s II in the same range I have pretty much the same experience (impressive given the sensor size/resolution). IBIS is very usefull and functional, but looking at the claimed numbers have a lot of caveats and requires common sense applied as well.
Olympus and Hasselblad seems to be class leading in terms of stabilization, eking out a stop or two more than the competish. I don't really see a reason to obsess over this in practical shooting, just give 'er a little ISO. 1/8th is perfect for waterfall stuff.
What many forget is that IBIS saves a lot of shots in the almost handholdable range of 1/20-1/50 that would otherwise have been borked due to poor technique and related.
Also when talking about the high resolution bodies, unstabilized you essentlially have to go by twice the focal length or a litte more to guarantee critical sharpness.
p.1 #17What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
gdanmitchell wrote:
I’d have to go back and look at EXIF to answer this accurately, but I now I’ve been able to (very carefully) handhold shots down to at least a quarter of a second using the 27mm f/2.8 on the XT5.
.....
To me that is roughly 3 stops IBIS Dan. Same with my C/V 27mm f2. 1/40>1/20>1/10>1/5.
p.1 #18What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
SpecFoto wrote: gdanmitchell wroteI’d have to go back and look at EXIF to answer this accurately, but I now I’ve been able to (very carefully) handhold shots down to at least a quarter of a second using the 27mm f/2.8 on the XT5.
.....To me that is roughly 3 stops IBIS Dan. Same with my C/V 27mm f2. 1/40>1/20>1/10>1/5.
True, but he's looking at needing sufficient quality to sell eg. 20x30 inch fine art prints. Another photographer could be using equipment for online webpage sizes where reproduced photos on phones or laptop screens aren't much bigger than 6x9 viewing size.
p.1 #19What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
Winsome Dove wrote: SpecFoto wrotegdanmitchell wroteI’d have to go back and look at EXIF to answer this accurately, but I now I’ve been able to (very carefully) handhold shots down to at least a quarter of a second using the 27mm f/2.8 on the XT5.
.....To me that is roughly 3 stops IBIS Dan. Same with my C/V 27mm f2. 1/40>1/20>1/10>1/5.True, but he's looking at needing sufficient quality to sell eg. 20x30 inch fine art prints. Another photographer could be using equipment for online webpage sizes where reproduced photos on phones or laptop screens aren't much bigger than 6x9 viewing size.
I don't see your connection between the number of stops of IBIS, real or not, and the viewing size?
In Body Image Stabilization, or IBIS, relates to how low of a shutter speed a photographer can hand hold a photo and it not be blurred due to camera movement. So not requiring a tripod. I have been using IBIS to shoot portraits since 2010 and it has been a big help. A blurred photo due to movement will show up at all sizes.
Far as my setup, I use twin 27" 5K Mac Studio Displays, so high detail and any camera movement is easily detectable. Sure lower quality viewing devices it may be harder to detect, but the softness is still there, even in phones.
p.1 #20What’s a realistic expectation of the IBIS in the X-T5?
SpecFoto wrote: Winsome Dove wroteSpecFoto wrotegdanmitchell wroteI’d have to go back and look at EXIF to answer this accurately, but I now I’ve been able to (very carefully) handhold shots down to at least a quarter of a second using the 27mm f/2.8 on the XT5.
.....To me that is roughly 3 stops IBIS Dan. Same with my C/V 27mm f2. 1/40>1/20>1/10>1/5.True, but he's looking at needing sufficient quality to sell eg. 20x30 inch fine art prints. Another photographer could be using equipment for online webpage sizes where reproduced photos on phones or laptop screens aren't much bigger than 6x9 viewing size.I don't see your connection between the number of stops of IBIS, real or not, and the viewing size?
In Body Image Stabilization, or IBIS, relates to how low of a shutter speed a photographer can hand hold a photo and it not be blurred due to camera movement. So not requiring a tripod. I have been using IBIS to shoot portraits since 2010 and it has been a big help. A blurred photo due to movement will show up at all sizes.
Far as my setup, I use twin 27" 5K Mac Studio Displays, so high detail and any camera movement is easily detectable. Sure lower quality viewing devices it may be harder to detect, but the softness is still there, even in phones.
It should be obvious that viewing size of an image is huge determinant of many things. Not just whether there was camera shake, but other things as well such as noise patterns, depth of focus, etc. These differences may not be nearly as obvious at (keeping this to a monitor view) a 10% vs a 100% zoom. The industry has deemed (apparently from some reading) that IS and its reduction in stops req'd to avoid blur, is based on roughly an 8x10 inch print held about 1 foot away from you.
Think of this way. When Fuji went from the T4 to the T5 and added 50% more pixels, they didn't change their guidance really on how much IBIS helps. Even though any flaw will be more transparent for a 40mp image than it will be for a 25mp image if looking at 100%.
Maybe not a great illustration, but here's a quick grab shot at 1s exposure at ~35mm FL. Is it 'acceptable' according to CIPA standards? I dunno