p.6 #1 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
"just get a nikon zf and the leica m to z af adapter.
Nikon? Ugh. Gross."
The Nikon ZF in my opinion more than holds it's own against my high end Leica's and Hasselblads. There are some subtle differences that might make you lean one way but overall, the ZF is +90% as good as cameras that cost $5,000+ more.
p.6 #2 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Really cool thread by the OP and I can relate in a lot of ways and wanted to add just a bit of my own experience with transitioning to shooting almost solely with the M system. So as I've mentioned in some other threads I work for an Airline and literally travel internationally for work on average 3 times a month all between the US and throughout Asia, Europe and Australia and always bring a camera with me. Because my trips are for work, the size, weight and volume of my gear matter more than anything as I still need to carry my work stuff plus of course my clothes and everything else one would travel around the world with. Sometimes I'll bring back 3 or 4 bottles of wine, cheese, whiskey, bourbon or other random local goods so that will weigh my roller board down quite a bit so carrying excess camera gear (unless I plan to shoot something very specific such as the cherry blossoms in Japan) really is a pain. Not to mention I'm just tired of lugging around heavy lenses and camera bodies with me as I explore as well.
Point being behind all that is I've traveled the world with my old Canon DSLRs, Sony Mirrorless and Fuji Mirrorless with a mix of 2.8 zooms or large/small primes and at the end of the day I sold all of that gear and ended with a mix of Leica M, Q, SL gear that I take all around the world with me. I don't lust or have FOMO about missing certain shots and I've learned my style of shooting so I've got my lenses and focal lengths dialed in to where I rarely have to carry more than 2 lenses. Part of that is a philosophy in life that I don't want to live behind a viewfinder and I actually want to enjoy and be present at the places I visit as I don't ever know when I may get to come back. Which actually makes the M perfect for me as shooting a rangefinder literally keeps me in the moment as well and makes me hyper aware of what's going on when I am shooting as I can't simply just be reactive to a situation and spray and pray with the latest and greatest AF offered by the latest Sony.
At most I'll bring a Q (sometimes I carry both the Q2 and Q3 43 in tandem) and one of my M's (M11, M10R, M6) with one prime to match whatever Q I bring. But most of the times I literally just run with an M and one lens like my 35 APO if I know shooting isn't my main goal but I want to have something ready incase I see a moment that needs to be captured for my memories. I'll also add that it really took me selling off all my other gear and shooting almost solely with my Leica M's to really dial in with my the system and get some amazing shots. The kind where you see it in your mind instantly and that's how your photo comes out after you edit.
I also insure all my gear so that I'm not afraid to carry my camera and lenses with me while being realistic that some places might be better shot with my Fuji X100VI. At the end of the day every camera system has a compromise in some way compared to each other and quite frankly it almost feels like the mirrorless cameras today can literally do almost all of the work for you minus pressing the shutter. I definitely had a lot of your frustrations when I first started really shooting solely with my old M10, especially after spending lots of time with my Sony's and Fuji's but once I decided to change how I wanted to shoot and experience the world I really started to improve with shooting my M's. It also helps to still have good eyes as you age but an external EVF or even a lot of practice zone focusing wide open at night can help to a degree .
p.6 #3 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Yes, I’m not quite there yet but there are times I wonder if its the viewfinder or my eyes that can’t tell if I’m in focus or not😅
doubleo6point9 wrote:
Really cool thread by the OP and I can relate in a lot of ways and wanted to add just a bit of my own experience with transitioning to shooting almost solely with the M system. So as I've mentioned in some other threads I work for an Airline and literally travel internationally for work on average 3 times a month all between the US and throughout Asia, Europe and Australia and always bring a camera with me. Because my trips are for work, the size, weight and volume of my gear matter more than anything as I still need to carry my work stuff plus of course my clothes and everything else one would travel around the world with. Sometimes I'll bring back 3 or 4 bottles of wine, cheese, whiskey, bourbon or other random local goods so that will weigh my roller board down quite a bit so carrying excess camera gear (unless I plan to shoot something very specific such as the cherry blossoms in Japan) really is a pain. Not to mention I'm just tired of lugging around heavy lenses and camera bodies with me as I explore as well.
Point being behind all that is I've traveled the world with my old Canon DSLRs, Sony Mirrorless and Fuji Mirrorless with a mix of 2.8 zooms or large/small primes and at the end of the day I sold all of that gear and ended with a mix of Leica M, Q, SL gear that I take all around the world with me. I don't lust or have FOMO about missing certain shots and I've learned my style of shooting so I've got my lenses and focal lengths dialed in to where I rarely have to carry more than 2 lenses. Part of that is a philosophy in life that I don't want to live behind a viewfinder and I actually want to enjoy and be present at the places I visit as I don't ever know when I may get to come back. Which actually makes the M perfect for me as shooting a rangefinder literally keeps me in the moment as well and makes me hyper aware of what's going on when I am shooting as I can't simply just be reactive to a situation and spray and pray with the latest and greatest AF offered by the latest Sony.
At most I'll bring a Q (sometimes I carry both the Q2 and Q3 43 in tandem) and one of my M's (M11, M10R, M6) with one prime to match whatever Q I bring. But most of the times I literally just run with an M and one lens like my 35 APO if I know shooting isn't my main goal but I want to have something ready incase I see a moment that needs to be captured for my memories. I'll also add that it really took me selling off all my other gear and shooting almost solely with my Leica M's to really dial in with my the system and get some amazing shots. The kind where you see it in your mind instantly and that's how your photo comes out after you edit.
I also insure all my gear so that I'm not afraid to carry my camera and lenses with me while being realistic that some places might be better shot with my Fuji X100VI. At the end of the day every camera system has a compromise in some way compared to each other and quite frankly it almost feels like the mirrorless cameras today can literally do almost all of the work for you minus pressing the shutter. I definitely had a lot of your frustrations when I first started really shooting solely with my old M10, especially after spending lots of time with my Sony's and Fuji's but once I decided to change how I wanted to shoot and experience the world I really started to improve with shooting my M's. It also helps to still have good eyes as you age but an external EVF or even a lot of practice zone focusing wide open at night can help to a degree ....Show more →
p.6 #4 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Haha sometimes both Honestly I’ve managed wide open shots with moving subjects while I was moving and got things in focus because of practice with guessing distance and pre focusing ahead of time if I see something developing. It just took a lot of practice to get there and of course I’m far from always nailing the shot. But lots of times I don’t mind the motion blur or even soft photos if the photos tell the story anyways.
Nothing special about these two shots but both were wide open with my M11P and old 35 summilux FLE V1 while I was walking and both subjects were walking as well. First was just me walking to the metro in Paris and the girl’s red backpack just popped with color against the dreary winter morning while she was hurriedly walking ahead of me. In the second I was randomly walking towards a bar to meet a friend for a quick drink in Hong Kong and really liked the light. I was going to take a photo of the backlit crossing head of me when the young lady cut in front from my right side while looking around at some stores and she walked. I just focused on her quickly and took my shot while she was walking right to left and away from me on the sidewalk. I wasn’t sure if I got either of these shots till later on when I had a chance to review my shots for the day.
Really I think you just have to decide if the M series is what you want to commit to as a travel camera and force yourself to just shoot and practice till it becomes instinct. A lot of times when things happen fast I quickly focus to what I see/believe is in focus, recompose and shoot. If I need a margin for error then I make sure I have enough depth of field. If I’m shooting shallow depth of field I just try to work with it quickly and hope that my muscle memory does its thing and I get the shot I want. If it didn’t work out then that’s how life goes. I’m not getting paid for this and it’s just for my enjoyment and memories anyways.
tofunjay wrote:
Yes, I’m not quite there yet but there are times I wonder if its the viewfinder or my eyes that can’t tell if I’m in focus or not😅
p.6 #5 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Travel - the hit rate is crucial, these are the ones you just know will be great if you get it done right. What is your hit rate, would you say? And how long do you estimate most users need to become proficient to feel confident in stressful and unfamiliar environments?
p.6 #6 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Personally, I like to take my time and usually get my shots, and I don't mind a bit of motion blur when it happens. My biggest mistake—which is totally my fault, not the camera's—is forgetting about parallax error. Sometimes I'll try shooting through a close foreground to frame a subject, like peeking through a hole in a fence, only to find out after developing the film that I was completely off-center.
philip_pj wrote:
Travel - the hit rate is crucial, these are the ones you just know will be great if you get it done right. What is your hit rate, would you say? And how long do you estimate most users need to become proficient to feel confident in stressful and unfamiliar environments?
p.6 #7 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
RomanMF wrote:
I've had a Q3 43, M EV1, and M11 for extended periods over the last three months, because I'm trying to figure out what to take on an extended European vacation next month.
I still feel no closer to an answer 😅.
I want to take my MP but I also want a digital body.
I recently went to Portugal and the camera served me well - especially when taking pictures of the teenagers or static objects church etc - however there were rare times when I wished the lens was a little wider.
I do have other equipment but I am certain I would not have taken as many pictures because of weight/size etc- but that does not seem to be your issue.
No experience with EV1 and M11.
I am NOT a accomplished photographer by any means and shoot probably once month when family comes over so that gives you the context.
p.6 #8 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Loved that backpack photo by the way. My eyes were just naturally drawn to that bright red backpack. Kind of reminds me of that scene of the little girl in the red dress in Schindler’s List.
doubleo6point9 wrote:
Haha sometimes both Honestly I’ve managed wide open shots with moving subjects while I was moving and got things in focus because of practice with guessing distance and pre focusing ahead of time if I see something developing. It just took a lot of practice to get there and of course I’m far from always nailing the shot. But lots of times I don’t mind the motion blur or even soft photos if the photos tell the story anyways.
Nothing special about these two shots but both were wide open with my M11P and old 35 summilux FLE V1 while I was walking and both subjects were walking as well. First was just me walking to the metro in Paris and the girl’s red backpack just popped with color against the dreary winter morning while she was hurriedly walking ahead of me. In the second I was randomly walking towards a bar to meet a friend for a quick drink in Hong Kong and really liked the light. I was going to take a photo of the backlit crossing head of me when the young lady cut in front from my right side while looking around at some stores and she walked. I just focused on her quickly and took my shot while she was walking right to left and away from me on the sidewalk. I wasn’t sure if I got either of these shots till later on when I had a chance to review my shots for the day.
Really I think you just have to decide if the M series is what you want to commit to as a travel camera and force yourself to just shoot and practice till it becomes instinct. A lot of times when things happen fast I quickly focus to what I see/believe is in focus, recompose and shoot. If I need a margin for error then I make sure I have enough depth of field. If I’m shooting shallow depth of field I just try to work with it quickly and hope that my muscle memory does its thing and I get the shot I want. If it didn’t work out then that’s how life goes. I’m not getting paid for this and it’s just for my enjoyment and memories anyways.
p.6 #9 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
I had a long weekend in Santa Fe for my birthday a couple weeks ago, a small messenger bag carried my m10 a 25, 35, 50, my dji pocket, wallet, keys, battery bank, mask, lens cloth, notebook and pens, filters, and airpods. I took my d-lux with me in case I needed autofocus/give to the wife and ended up never using it. I did miss some shots but nothing I regret. At this point I'm going to sale my d-lux, I really just find pleasure in making images with a M camera. Any other camera will be for video/studio portraits. cause even critical focus work I'd probably use the visoflex over another camera if I'm able to. Like others have said do you want to use M lenses or do you want to actually use a M would the question you have to answer for yourself. I got a lumix s5 this week and was immediately turned off by taking photos with it, it's just too easy the camera is doing everything for me.
picture my wife took of me in meow wolf so you can see the size of the bag lol
p.6 #10 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
Michael2599 wrote:
The Nikon ZF in my opinion more than holds it's own against my high end Leica's and Hasselblads. There are some subtle differences that might make you lean one way but overall, the ZF is +90% as good as cameras that cost $5,000+ more.
I do more with my Zf than most people do with their Leicas or Hasselblads. Almost like it's a skill thing.
p.6 #11 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
ByChrisJones wrote:
I got a lumix s5 this week and was immediately turned off by taking photos with it, it's just too easy the camera is doing everything for me.
Perhaps it allows you to focus on Das Wesentliche: subject, composition and light
p.6 #12 · Leica M11-P as a Travel Camera: A Love–Hate Experience
A frequently stated reason for buying into the Leica M system is that it slows you down so you can concentrate on photography. But there appear to be a lot of serious threats to image quality and versatility lurking in the background - like RF calibration, parallax, VF blockage, basic functionality re lens choice and close focus. So you end up with these onerous overheads that stop or crimp the actual photographic gamut of usage.
These are the sorts of things that got so many interested in, and preferring accurate sensor-fed EVF cameras. And incidentally, how many M users do not use the top mounted EVF in these days of close focus lenses growing numerous in the marketplace, and the consequent increase in close focus photography?
Do we have any study data on this aspect? And using the (I think it is called) the Visoflex instantly breaks up the notion of liking the cameras for their 'clean' bodies.
I did find this report about 'most' LUF users:
'Most users on the Leica User Forum report mounting the Visoflex for only 20% to 30% of their shooting time, preferring the optical rangefinder for standard street and daily photography. Selective focal lengths: It is frequently deployed for specialized tasks like:
. macro photography,
. using lenses wider than 28mm, or
. handling telephoto lenses (75mm to 135mm) where precise framing and critical focus are harder to gauge through the optical patch.' That covers a lot of ground, doesn't it?
Few have any idea how cumbersome ANY protruding part is to using a camera in close quarters, let alone one so costly and sizeable. Then, presumably it has to be mounted and de-mounted. It makes the camera/lens so much larger and obvious as well.
I want to address the issue of 'it's just too easy the camera is doing everything for me' as it has been raised twice here, and be mindful we are talking about travel camera advice for an undecided person here:
Many here use manual lenses on a mainstream mirrorless with ALL of it turned off, personally I just use A mode: ISO and magnification plus the shutter. Disliking automation is therefore no valid reason to not use a MILC camera.
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Honestly I’ve managed wide open shots with moving subjects while I was moving and got things in focus because of practice with guessing distance and pre focusing ahead of time if I see something developing. It just took a lot of practice to get there and of course I’m far from always nailing the shot. But lots of times I don’t mind the motion blur or even soft photos if the photos tell the story anyways. 
