p.8 #1 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
johnvanr wrote:
In my case, Sony would probably be my main system if they had made their cameras ergonomically better and overall more enjoyable to use. Instead, I went back to Canon for FF. In my film days, I was a Contax shooter, both the N and G models and I wish those, and the 645, had survived the move to digital.
Yes, ergonomics especially with the first gen of A7 series cameras was a big divide. I found it perfect for my usage, and I didn't like when Sony implemented the much larger handgrip from second generation onwards. I always found it went backwards more towards DSLR sized bulky cameras - but others would disagree here. Subjectively, I found the A7 first gen the best - it came with all the Sony apps too (some were very useful!) which faltered away in later generations.
p.8 #2 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
Sony put the fine 36mp sensor with its superb dynamic range inside a 465 gram body that accommodated virtually all existing manual focus lenses via adapters, lenses that could easily be focused with extreme accuracy via magnification.
It opened many doors. It had 2.75 stops of base DR over Canon's 5DIII and shaded Nikon's (Sony-sensored) D800 at base level ISO while matching it everywhere else, and weighing almost exactly half the weight. Same EVF resolution as the a7cr. It's still my main camera despite some dodgy power-on antics.
Are you referring to the Art series ... physical size differential seems readily apparent that they are not the same lens. I couldn't find another Sigma 50/1.4 that would suggest such consideration of the Lux is only a rebadge.
p.8 #8 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
RustyBug wrote:
$4950 qualifies as a "bummer", too.
The price is convincing me it’s a better deal to just get the 50 Lux M since I don’t really need the AF. And the M can focus even closer than 45cm using a macro adapter.
p.8 #9 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
highdesertmesa wrote:
The price is convincing me it’s a better deal to just get the 50 Lux M since I don’t really need the AF. And the M can focus even closer than 45cm using a macro adapter.
Yeah, probably not dumping my VM 50/1.5 II just yet.
p.8 #10 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
philip_pj wrote:
Sony put the fine 36mp sensor with its superb dynamic range inside a 465 gram body that accommodated virtually all existing manual focus lenses via adapters, lenses that could easily be focused with extreme accuracy via magnification.
It opened many doors. It had 2.75 stops of base DR over Canon's 5DIII and shaded Nikon's (Sony-sensored) D800 at base level ISO while matching it everywhere else, and weighing almost exactly half the weight. Same EVF resolution as the a7cr. It's still my main camera despite some dodgy power-on antics.
That first Sony A7R indeed had a great sensor in a small package, but just about everything else drove me nuts.
p.8 #11 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
johnvanr wrote:
That first Sony A7R indeed had a great sensor in a small package, but just about everything else drove me nuts.
That's also what many criticized at the time of its release. It did not bother me since I prefer in general to have more options but then select the ones I really need. I admit that Sony's initial menu structure was by far not optimal but I rather prefer this than what the Leica marketing hype tries to convey that less is more (and so for example removing the video option in the M10 instead of admitting that this was done to avoid in-house competition with the video centric SL system which was released about the same time). I got used to the Sony menu and customized a lot of camera buttons for easier menu access.
What drove me nuts with the A7 series was and maybe still is the cumbersome procedure for firmware updates. One time it nearly killed my A7R when updating. In a last desperate attempt I reactivated my camera by randomly clicking on all kind of buttons, battery removal and reinsert didn't help. Since then the camera works perfectly fine and never had a hiccup again to date.
p.8 #12 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
I do not want video on my M. If I want to do video I will use a video camera. A rangefinder for video makes little since to me when there are so many options that do it so much better.
Leica M isn't and shouldn't be a one size fits all camera. Becasue it's not trying to be everything to everyone is what in my opinion makes it special/
I bought the M 262 because it didin't have video. I was thrilled when the M 10 was released that it didn't have video. I probably wouldn't have bought the M 10 id it had vidoe. I would have hoped Leica would have made a camera like the M 262 without video and woud have bought something like that instead. I think it was more in responce to the success of M 262 and photographers like me that do not want video on there cameras. With the no compete thing as a bonus.
With other Leica cameras other than the M do video all day long.
I never liked the way Sony felt in my hands and how they operated. For me it is counter intitutive to how I see and work. For many Sony works fine. It is so nice to have real choices.
p.8 #13 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
airfrogusmc wrote:
I never liked the way Sony felt in my hands and how they operated. For me it is counter intitutive to how I see and work. For many Sony works fine. It is so nice to have real choices.
Sony Menus are more complex than ever, but now there are ten memory presets for photo and ten for video. This means that the awful menus are mostly used initially and things that need to be changed can be assigned to a button… and lots of buttons. The newest cameras are quite responsive and of modest size/weight and there newest lenses are impressive. I purchased the A7Rvi so that I can use the 50-150mm f/2.0 and 24mm f/1.4 GM lenses. Great glass and a very responsive camera.. but short of presets and assigned buttons, absolutely crazy menus. Comfort wise, the A1ii and A9iii provide more comfortable grips. No idea why this isn’t applied across their lineup.
p.8 #14 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
retrofocus wrote:
That's also what many criticized at the time of its release. It did not bother me since I prefer in general to have more options but then select the ones I really need. I admit that Sony's initial menu structure was by far not optimal but I rather prefer this than what the Leica marketing hype tries to convey that less is more (and so for example removing the video option in the M10 instead of admitting that this was done to avoid in-house competition with the video centric SL system which was released about the same time). I got used to the Sony menu and customized a lot of camera buttons for easier menu access.
What drove me nuts with the A7 series was and maybe still is the cumbersome procedure for firmware updates. One time it nearly killed my A7R when updating. In a last desperate attempt I reactivated my camera by randomly clicking on all kind of buttons, battery removal and reinsert didn't help. Since then the camera works perfectly fine and never had a hiccup again to date. ...Show more →
It wasn't so much the menus, though they were messy. It was the slowness of it all. Had the same issue with the RX1R, gorgeous files, but oh so slow. While I sometimes wish I would be a slow and very deliberate shooter, the reality is that I don't like to be slowed down by my gear.
p.8 #15 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
johnvanr wrote:
It wasn't so much the menus, though they were messy. It was the slowness of it all. Had the same issue with the RX1R, gorgeous files, but oh so slow. While I sometimes wish I would be a slow and very deliberate shooter, the reality is that I don't like to be slowed down by my gear.
This isn't my experience other than a bit slower startup which was fixed in one of the first firmware updates. My Leica M 240 starts actually slower. It doesn't bother me. I never felt slowed down by any of my phot gear. Might depend what kind of photography is done, too.
p.8 #16 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
retrofocus wrote:
I politely disagree here. The release of Sony's FF MLC in 2013 was not about AF - even it became much more usable just two years later with the second generation. The focus of these cameras was not on sports at all - and you could well use them for standard AF purposes. Canon and Nikon both were late to the table because they did not anticipate this FF MLC innovation at all - they were all about defending their existing DSLR market. It took both of them multiple years to get even close to where Sony then was already. Canon/Nikon simply didn't have this technology at all and had to play catch up. It took them more than 10 years!...Show more →
I was going to post a lengthy reply but it would take this thread way farther off track than it already is. I'll just say I disagree with your theory about Canon and Nikon's reasons for not entering the FF mirrorless space in the early 2010s and instead waiting until 2018. That you have justifiably not been a Canon user for a long time and admittedly have not followed them since then is evident in your position about Sony's overall capabilities during that period. I guess the bottom line is that whatever system one used during that time, it could deliver the needed end results. But the path getting there was different. Which path one chose was directly related to one's needs.
johnvanr wrote:
It wasn't so much the menus, though they were messy. It was the slowness of it all. Had the same issue with the RX1R, gorgeous files, but oh so slow. While I sometimes wish I would be a slow and very deliberate shooter, the reality is that I don't like to be slowed down by my gear.
I seem to remember a lot of animations when changing Sony camera settings that didn't keep up with quickly rotating a dial. I'm like you in that I want the camera to be very responsive/fast and small details like this that distract me by forcing me to focus on the camera instead of focusing on what is in front of the camera, really, really annoy me. We're both R5II users and the one thing that really bothers me about it is the relative slowness when changing ISO values compared to my R6II. Reminds me of the annoying lag with early Sony animations, though nowhere near as bad.
In this respect, it's something I really like about the M system. I can quickly make basic adjustments, often without actually looking at the camera settings, and very quickly bring it up to my eye and make an image. It's always ready (if I disable the sleep settings, or remember to wake it up periodically) with virtually no lag when I press the shutter release. Pure and simple.
p.8 #18 · Could the rumored Leica SL 50 Lux II be M-like in rendering?
According to a Leica project manager, this new 50mm Summilux-SL is an attempt at making an autofocus lens of the M version of the Summilux 50mm Aspherical, so even though it is a total new lens design, the rendering target was to be similar to M bersion. The MTF charts do show that in a way, it looks to be slightly sharper than the M counterpart, but the shape of the curves do resemble the M version in a way.
From this interview, around the 9m40s mark: ?t=583
