EB-1 wrote:
Sony ergonomics are bad, especailly for those with man-hands, though the FM forum users may not feel that way.
Looking at the images of the a7rVI it might have a larger grip, but there is still not much space for fingers and being too short.
I'm hoping there will be a good A-S plate that covers the full boootom contours to accommodate the 5th digit. I'm using the Smallrigs for the a7rV which makes it more palatable.
The EVF should be very good. Assuming standard ratios,
A7V: 3.69 M-dot (1.23 MP) is 1280x960 pixels
A7rV and A7rVI: 9.44 M-dot (3.15 MP) is 2048x1536 pixels
There are some differences between cameras where the resolution and/or refresh changes with the framing rate and mode, so you have to look into that.
I use RRS L-plates with all my cameras (I usually carry them around in my left hand by holding the L-bracket). I recently read someone recommending brackets to fix the ergonomics problems on Sony cameras. I mean, Q3 was the absolute worst, and it was 99% fixed with the Helium Labs handgrip. How bad can Sony be? Unfortunately, I was not able to test this idea during the Sony demo event. I have high hopes about it.
EB-1 wrote:
That's encouraging, and a bit better than the R5. I just wish they had a faster MS with that big battery. I hope there is some way to map a button to switch from MS to ES.
EBH
I’m sure there is since I already do that on my A7r5. 👍🏻
Thank you Ross for that video! The drop in resolution when in af-c has always bothered me about the A7r5. I’m glad they fixed it.
This whole discussion about sensor readout speed has been very interesting. I am starting to get interested in street shooting and I felt the handicap using silent shooting with my A7R5 while in Paris. I was forced to use mechanical shutter because of the extremely slow readout speed which was not ideal when wanting silence.
But this discussion led me to something good! I learned that if I shoot in compressed raw on the A7R5 (in continuous shooting mode), the sensor readout speed doubles to 50ms. Still slow but possibly usable for street! Much better than 100ms. I’ll test this out and see if it works for me. Thanks to everyone who has provided so much great information. 👊🏻
Thanks for the comparison. 1.The R5 with mechanical shutter looks better than the R6 with electronic shutter. 2. The orange cast that the R5 gets when files are pushed hard seems gone with the R6. (Visible in skin tones.) Question: Does EFCS with mechanical second curtain give results like fully mechanical?
snapsy wrote:
Here's a link I generated into DPReview's studio scene at +6EV showing the improvement from the DGO output used in the A7RVI's mechanical shutter mode:
Thanks for the comparison. 1.The R5 with mechanical shutter looks better than the R6 with electronic shutter. 2. The orange cast that the R5 gets when files are pushed hard seems gone with the R6. (Visible in skin tones.) Question: Does EFCS with mechanical second curtain give results like fully mechanical?
racetratr wrote:
Thanks for the comparison. 1.The R5 with mechanical shutter looks better than the R6 with electronic shutter. 2. The orange cast that the R5 gets when files are pushed hard seems gone with the R6. (Visible in skin tones.) Question: Does EFCS with mechanical second curtain give results like fully mechanical?
Some of the Canon R models drop to 12-bits when using the electronic shutter, irrespective of single vs burst modes more appropriately determining bit depth like on many Sony bodies. This is due to Canon generally having slower readouts and thus requiring 12-bit operation to achieve reasonable rolling shutters. That said, I haven't kept up with the recent R bodies so it's possible the newest models support 14-bit operation with their electronic shutters.
Fully-mechanical vs EFCS give identical results in terms of rolling shutter/readout speeds/noise. EFCS however can cause cut-off bokeh effects at large apertures due to the light-shading differences between two mechanical slits (fully mechanical) vs one mechanical slit (EFCS). Some older EFCS designs also sometimes produced a vague exposure boundary in the frame, due to the difficulty of matching the travel speed and shape between the mechanical first shutter curtain and the electronic second.
The R3, R1, and R5II have fast readouts and 14-bit RAWs in ES.
The a7rVI is not a fast camera, but surely good enough for many purposes. I'll be mapping a button to switch from MS to ES on the fly depending on the subject movement. I never did that for the a7rV because the ES was just horrible.
Admittedly, I haven't read through all 41 pages of this thread so this might have got some coverage, but I really like their implementation of shoot mode. Wish the Z8's memory banks would just remember my settings and seeing this let me cycle through 10 of my go to's with titles so I know what I'm selecting is pretty sweet.
Seabassius wrote:
Admittedly, I haven't read through all 41 pages of this thread so this might have got some coverage, but I really like their implementation of shoot mode. Wish the Z8's memory banks would just remember my settings and seeing this let me cycle through 10 of my go to's with titles so I know what I'm selecting is pretty sweet.
I agree. This new memory function where you can set it to auto update the settings AND be able to set a custom button to toggle through a curated list of M slots is a big upgrade.
I don't use the M feature on the current cameras. If I had those two things on a camera I'd start using it for sure. That would be exactly how I used to use Canon's C modes.
I really hope Sony finds a way to bring this to other cameras via FW. The only roadblock may be the lack of the * setting on the PASM dial. But I still think they could give us the option to Auto update the M modes and toggle them with a button even without the * on the dial.
arbitrage wrote:
I agree. This new memory function where you can set it to auto update the settings AND be able to set a custom button to toggle through a curated list of M slots is a big upgrade.
I don't use the M feature on the current cameras. If I had those two things on a camera I'd start using it for sure. That would be exactly how I used to use Canon's C modes.
I really hope Sony finds a way to bring this to other cameras via FW. The only roadblock may be the lack of the * setting on the PASM dial. But I still think they could give us the option to Auto update the M modes and toggle them with a button even without the * on the dial....Show more →
Remap the C3 on the dial to be the * mode via fw. I don't use C3 at all.
duncangr wrote:
Good to see that there seems to be little evidence of distortion on the wings of the bird of that size.
Jan Wegner's quick review showed this too and he's basically only shoots birds fora living. If he's happy that's a big plus IMO.
Still not sure about the A7RVI. Second hand mint A1II's are on the market for about the same price now from MAP cameras in Japan. If I didn't have an A1 I'd probably jump on the RVI for sure. No rushand I'll sit market and see how the field reports turn out and wait for the sales to begin and Sony Australia usually discounts cameras quickly after release.
EB-1 wrote:
Sony ergonomics are bad, especailly for those with man-hands, though the FM forum users may not feel that way.
Looking at the images of the a7rVI it might have a larger grip, but there is still not much space for fingers and being too short.
I'm hoping there will be a good A-S plate that covers the full boootom contours to accommodate the 5th digit. I'm using the Smallrigs for the a7rV which makes it more palatable.
The EVF should be very good. Assuming standard ratios,
A7V: 3.69 M-dot (1.23 MP) is 1280x960 pixels
A7rV and A7rVI: 9.44 M-dot (3.15 MP) is 2048x1536 pixels
There are some differences between cameras where the resolution and/or refresh changes with the framing rate and mode, so you have to look into that.
EB-1 wrote:
It's an obscure reference to a 90s TV program on the NBC, where a female guest character had very large hands.
EBH
If you're two face or low talker Sony probably be a deal breaker too? z7ii/z5ii probably my favorite ergos, Z8 just too bulky for me. I like the depth of the A1mii, I'll probably give this a try.
I'm so used to the MILS of Canon now, that the others seem worse. The Sony is just so tight on the knuckes with the 200-600, even with a relatively thin glove liner and too short for all my fingers. (It's painful to grip over time when the 5th digit is hanging and rubbing on the bottom of the camera). I don't know about the 100-400/4.5 or 400-800. The speed and MTF of the 400-800 is turning me off and I'm not sure if the 100-400/4.5 is adequate with a 1.4x when needed. If the a7rVI is adequate overall I will consider other lenses, though under no allusions that they would be a full system for me.
Nikon just doesn't have enough buttons/controls for right thumb/index finger use. I'm not buying any high grade bodies in the late 2020s that don't have 3 control dials like Sony or Canon. The Z8 is extra sized because it is so based on the Z9. That probably was cheaper than a more completely different body.
EB-1 wrote:
I'm so used to the MILS of Canon now, that the others seem worse. The Sony is just so tight on the knuckes with the 200-600, even with a relatively thin glove liner and too short for all my fingers. (It's painful to grip over time when the 5th digit is hanging and rubbing on the bottom of the camera). I don't know about the 100-400/4.5 or 400-800. The speed and MTF of the 400-800 is turning me off and I'm not sure if the 100-400/4.5 is adequate with a 1.4x when needed. If the a7rVI is adequate overall I will consider other lenses, though under no allusions that they would be a full system for me.
Nikon just doesn't have enough buttons/controls for right thumb/index finger use. I'm not buying any high grade bodies in the late 2020s that don't have 3 control dials like Sony or Canon. The Z8 is extra sized because it is so based on the Z9. That probably was cheaper than a more completely different body.
I shoot both with Sony and Canon. I never remove the OEM vertical grip for my A7V and the ergo feels great! After seeing the images here about the A7RVI and what the modern software can do, I also decided to bring back the 5Ds (again with grip) to the rotation. It does feel heavy.
Battery grips are too heavy at this point, especially at higher altitudes, not to mention on aircraft with all the other limitations.
I'd rather have a slightly larger body with just slightly greater weight than have to add a grip that is much larger and heavier. The a7rVI has the ~25% greater capacity battery and in ES I'm expecting quite high frame counts per battery. But I already had to spend an extra $400 on a charger and two batteries. Three batteries should be more than enough for one day of stills without needing a grip. I'm sure the video folks would want grips and more extra batteries.
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