arbitrage wrote:
If it is the same as the A7V then DGO is only available when shooting Mechanical Shutter. So in ES it should be "off".
I still believe that the shutter read is going to be half of the reported 1/20s when you use the camera in Lossy Compressed RAW and ES. The A7RIV/V was twice as fast in Lossy Compressed.
So 1/10s or 10ms. If that turns out to be true then rolling shutter won't be much of a concern for birds. Not sure about sports?
Maybe recheck that math. Half of 1/20s is 1/40s which is 25ms. 1/10s is 100ms, e.g., a7rV.
arbitrage wrote:
If it is the same as the A7V then DGO is only available when shooting Mechanical Shutter. So in ES it should be "off".
I still believe that the shutter read is going to be half of the reported 1/20s when you use the camera in Lossy Compressed RAW and ES. The A7RIV/V was twice as fast in Lossy Compressed.
So 1/10s or 10ms. If that turns out to be true then rolling shutter won't be much of a concern for birds. Not sure about sports?
Good to know about the Lossy Compression option in the a7V. 10ms would make the a7rVI much more tempting for me.
My understanding is DGO is not available for video in the a7V, but is available for the a7rVI due to the stacked sensor having a layer for performing DGO on the sensor.
Found this review of both the A7RVI and the new 100-400. He had the combo for 35 days. They seem to work great for safari. This guy got some amazing footages. It's in Chinese.
arbitrage wrote:
If it is the same as the A7V then DGO is only available when shooting Mechanical Shutter. So in ES it should be "off".
I still believe that the shutter read is going to be half of the reported 1/20s when you use the camera in Lossy Compressed RAW and ES. The A7RIV/V was twice as fast in Lossy Compressed.
So 1/10s or 10ms. If that turns out to be true then rolling shutter won't be much of a concern for birds. Not sure about sports?
Dpreview measured 14ms (1/71) for 12-bit lossy-compressed raw vs 19.6ms for 14-bit raws (1/51)
snapsy wrote:
Dpreview measured 14ms (1/71) for 12-bit lossy-compressed raw vs 19.6ms for 14-bit raws (1/51)
That's encouraging, and a bit better than the R5. I just wish they had a faster MS with that big battery. I hope there is some way to map a button to switch from MS to ES.
EB-1 wrote:
Maybe recheck that math. Half of 1/20s is 1/40s which is 25ms. 1/10s is 100ms, e.g., a7rV.
EBH
Yep...whoops. Was getting things confused. Meant to say the quoted 19.6ms for the read speed being mentioned if that is not in Lossy Compressed then we may get down to 9.8ms if it follows the A7RIV/V trend.
snapsy wrote:
Dpreview measured 14ms (1/71) for 12-bit lossy-compressed raw vs 19.6ms for 14-bit raws (1/51)
Thanks for that info.
Was this posted in their written review or somewhere else?
I see in the written review they say the ES speed seems to be the same as the 8K video speed which they say is 13.7ms. But that reference is to the 14-bit RAWs (I think??). It isn't really clear what the 12-bit lossy compressed RAWs are.
"Sony says the camera captures 14-bit Raws, even at its fastest shooting modes, but doesn't make clear whether the equivalent of the 'Dual Gain Shooting' video function is being applied to e-shutter stills. Our measurements show that electronic shutter images have slightly higher noise levels in the shadows, and a sensor readout rate that's consistent with the 8K video mode (in which the "Dual Gain Shooting" option is not available), suggesting it's not."
So I think that number 14 or 13.7 matches what Duade found in his rudimentary testing comparing the distortion in the images of a fan blade with other cameras. He found the resulting image closest to the R6III image and R6III has 13.2ms.
What does that mean for rolling shutter in terms of trying to pan with a slow car or person walking...street photography? The RV cannot be moved at all while taking a picture without introducing distortion. I'm hoping the VI will allow some movement and only be bad in all but the most extreme situations, i.e. balls, birds, bats etc.
Here's a link I generated into DPReview's studio scene at +6EV showing the improvement from the DGO output used in the A7RVI's mechanical shutter mode:
For my type of shooting (birds, BIF) I would be shooting the A7RVI in Compressed RAW (lossy), AF-C and 30FPS.
To date, my understanding is that would get me:
A sensor readout of ~14ms
60 AF calculations per second (all other RAW formats are 30 AF cal/s)
150 shot buffer (better than A1 (147) and just shy of A1II (160))
I owned the R5 which has readout of 16.4ms. That was typically fast enough for not distorting bird wings but still had the risk of leaning backgrounds during faster pans.
bwcolor wrote:
Fair enough, I have one on order for reasons that were important to me, so if you would share what aspects of the camera might make, or break your decision to purchase, we can steer the conversation a bit your way.
For me a7r6 could replace both z8 (too big) and q3 (too weird, too slow, too big for what it offers). I am looking for opinions about redesigned grip because all previous Sony cameras are extremely uncomfortable to hold for me, opinions about viewfinder and overall responsiveness. My latest interaction with Sony was an hour with A7V and while I liked the camera and images, it was not It. It was still super uncomfortable, viewfinder was the worst I looked through in a while, and there was a noticeable delay sometimes while using camera. Not as bad as q3, but noticeable, and not expected. Anyway, if I ever switch to Sony, I will be buying used after prices will go down somewhat, so there are plenty of time for me to figure it all out.
(and it would be nice for Nikon to join modern times and do a really nice photography centric z7III, so I don't have to switch)
olegkin wrote:
For me a7r6 could replace both z8 (too big) and q3 (too weird, too slow, too big for what it offers). I am looking for opinions about redesigned grip because all previous Sony cameras are extremely uncomfortable to hold for me, opinions about viewfinder and overall responsiveness. My latest interaction with Sony was an hour with A7V and while I liked the camera and images, it was not It. It was still super uncomfortable, viewfinder was the worst I looked through in a while, and there was a noticeable delay sometimes while using camera. Not as bad as q3, but noticeable, and not expected. Anyway, if I ever switch to Sony, I will be buying used after prices will go down somewhat, so there are plenty of time for me to figure it all out.
(and it would be nice for Nikon to join modern times and do a really nice photography centric z7III, so I don't have to switch)...Show more →
Reasonable questions. The EVF was one of the reasons I purchased the camera. The A7Rv had a great EVF and the new one adds to that with the capability to display HDR images. Even if I don’t usually go through an HDR workflow, the closer the camera comes to my Contax RTSIII, the better. Also, even with 30fps, the blackout is supposed to be negligible, or non existent. When shooting in 12 bit it moves to AF sampling 60X/sec and reduced sensor scan times. There are claims of better colors and this is something that is a plus for the Sony ‘R’ line and this is accomplished in part by more accurate AWB. Color/Resolution/EVF and the availability of the new 100mm Macro GM make this a buy for me. I think the images will integrate well with my X2D2 images. The LCD screen is unimpressive and could use an update. If you get a chance, handle the X2D(2). The grip and ergonomics are the best and the LCD screen is the best I’ve seen. Good that you have some time to think things over. Things should clarify as to where Nikon is and time will allow members here to have hands on answers for some of your concerns. It does sound like the grip is slightly larger, but not a major change.
I expect some variant of this sensor to show up in Leica (M12/13, SL4 and Q4?), Nikon z7 III, and others but I think that will take minimum 9-12 months (my wild guess). I don't see any reason to share that tech with the "competitors" just yet.
snapsy wrote:
Here's a link I generated into DPReview's studio scene at +6EV showing the improvement from the DGO output used in the A7RVI's mechanical shutter mode:
That's ISO 100. What is it converted with? The software makes a huge difference with the AI NR. In-camera JPEGs look much better now, but again that is the camera processors.
bwcolor wrote:
Reasonable questions. The EVF was one of the reasons I purchased the camera. The A7Rv had a great EVF and the new one adds to that with the capability to display HDR images. Even if I don’t usually go through an HDR workflow, the closer the camera comes to my Contax RTSIII, the better. Also, even with 30fps, the blackout is supposed to be negligible, or non existent. When shooting in 12 bit it moves to AF sampling 60X/sec and reduced sensor scan times. There are claims of better colors and this is something that is a plus for the Sony ‘R’ line and this is accomplished in part by more accurate AWB. Color/Resolution/EVF and the availability of the new 100mm Macro GM make this a buy for me. I think the images will integrate well with my X2D2 images. The LCD screen is unimpressive and could use an update. If you get a chance, handle the X2D(2). The grip and ergonomics are the best and the LCD screen is the best I’ve seen. Good that you have some time to think things over. Things should clarify as to where Nikon is and time will allow members here to have hands on answers for some of your concerns. It does sound like the grip is slightly larger, but not a major change....Show more →
My primary camera is the GFX, and my processing software is Capture One. I also use three other camera systems fairly often. As much as I like the idea of a leaf shutter, it does not provide enough value to justify spending money on an X2D and changing my workflow. I also work exclusively with manual exposure, and I prefer my lenses to have an aperture ring whenever possible. This is another reason I favor Sony over Nikon. I have never owned a Sony camera, but when I tried the A7V, it felt natural for manual exposure work, and the native lens also had aperture controls, which was the icing on the cake.
Also, Richmond does not have a camera store, so I cannot just go and touch stuff as I did in NJ-B&H - no chance for an emotional attachment
EB-1 wrote:
That's ISO 100. What is it converted with? The software makes a huge difference with the AI NR. In-camera JPEGs look much better now, but again that is the camera processors.
EBH
ACR, with ACR's default Chroma NR setting of 25, which understates DGO's noise improvement.
olegkin wrote:
For me a7r6 could replace both z8 (too big) and q3 (too weird, too slow, too big for what it offers). I am looking for opinions about redesigned grip because all previous Sony cameras are extremely uncomfortable to hold for me, opinions about viewfinder and overall responsiveness. My latest interaction with Sony was an hour with A7V and while I liked the camera and images, it was not It. It was still super uncomfortable, viewfinder was the worst I looked through in a while, and there was a noticeable delay sometimes while using camera. Not as bad as q3, but noticeable, and not expected. Anyway, if I ever switch to Sony, I will be buying used after prices will go down somewhat, so there are plenty of time for me to figure it all out.
(and it would be nice for Nikon to join modern times and do a really nice photography centric z7III, so I don't have to switch)...Show more →
Sony ergonomics are bad, especailly for those with man-hands, though the FM forum users may not feel that way.
Looking at the images of the a7rVI it might have a larger grip, but there is still not much space for fingers and being too short.
I'm hoping there will be a good A-S plate that covers the full boootom contours to accommodate the 5th digit. I'm using the Smallrigs for the a7rV which makes it more palatable.
The EVF should be very good. Assuming standard ratios,
A7V: 3.69 M-dot (1.23 MP) is 1280x960 pixels
A7rV and A7rVI: 9.44 M-dot (3.15 MP) is 2048x1536 pixels
There are some differences between cameras where the resolution and/or refresh changes with the framing rate and mode, so you have to look into that.
