pmeheut wrote:
I do not understand why you react like this. This is a forum where we all buy a lot of gear far beyond the point where it could have any influence on the quality of the pictures we shoot.
So we buy toys, we play with them, when we have a new toy, we want to play more with it. And sometimes, we even produce ok pictures. That's ok: I have shelves full of cameras and lenses I do not use.
And you said it yourself: you bought a lot of cameras you do not use, you bought rangefinder to use them with a not so convenient EVF, a monochrom camera when you prefer color conversion...
So they are clearly not photographic devices and I'm sure a Pen-F or a Fuji would be more enough for you and for most of us. ...Show more →
The reason for his reaction is the animosity people displayed toward his choice. His choice is his, and he is kind enough to explain why. Currently, I oscillate between using M-EV1 and one of the M11 cameras, as they are quite different in use.
Especially with Leica cameras, owners can have a more serious relationship with their tools than simply treating them as toys.
stgrove wrote:
Thanks for your vote of confidence. Are you being nice? No.
My about face is my decision and mine alone J'en est marre de ça.
I have not used my Q3 28 for many, many months and prefer wider than 28 such as 24/1.4 or 21/1/4 lenses and the EV1 is prefect for those lenses.
As for the M11M I often find I prefer adjusting the color sliders to gain what I envision over the M11M files.
you've obviously got the means (probably because you've worked hard all your life like many of us Leica enthusiasts), and you should get whatever gear suits your needs/desires at any given time. And I know from experience those needs/desires change over time.
Example: I just got the Q3M which I know some people question since one of my lenses is the 28 Elmarit and I've already got the M11M. Bottom line: I've got different uses for my different cameras and lenses. I'm not bothered by other people questioning how/why I make decisions on gear, and similarly I feel no obligation to justify those decisions to anyone.
FYI, 21mm is a fabulous length - if you don't have one already you'll love it. I've got the 21 SEM, love it, and the quirky fun perspectives it offers.
SrMi wrote:
The reason for his reaction is the animosity people displayed toward his choice. His choice is his
I missed the animosity. This is just a camera. If he is happy with it fine.
SrMi wrote:
Especially with Leica cameras, owners can have a more serious relationship with their tools than simply treating them as toys.
My point is that for most of us, they are not tools. We do not earn our life with them, most of us do not really express something string.
Photography is a hobby and we spend more time thinking and talking about the gear we use than about pictures themselves.
Nothing wrong with that and I do not pretend to do anything different.
But for instance, I use tools for my job: I do not own more than what I need, I do not talk about them a lot, I keep them a long time, I rarely have the last one because I spend more time mastering what I got than trying something new.
I've noticed the same attitude from professional photographers. And this was also mine when I was shooting as a semi-pro.
So when I say toys, it seems it may strike a nerve but this was not my intention. I just recognize the rationalisation for changing gear, explaining why it will be better, etc. But I'm still convinced that replacing a M11, M11M and Q3 by a M-EV1 has very little influence on the pictures.
pmeheut wrote:
I missed the animosity. This is just a camera. If he is happy with it fine.
My point is that for most of us, they are not tools. We do not earn our life with them, most of us do not really express something string.
You do not need to be a professional to use and appreciate tools, be it screwdrivers, musical instruments, cars, or cameras.
Photography is a hobby and we spend more time thinking and talking about the gear we use than about pictures themselves.
Hobbyists may enjoy a good camera more than a professional.
Nothing wrong with that and I do not pretend to do anything different.
But for instance, I use tools for my job: I do not own more than what I need, I do not talk about them a lot, I keep them a long time, I rarely have the last one because I spend more time mastering what I got than trying something new.
I've noticed the same attitude from professional photographers. And this was also mine when I was shooting as a semi-pro.
So when I say toys, it seems it may strike a nerve but this was not my intention. I just recognize the rationalisation for changing gear, explaining why it will be better, etc. But I'm still convinced that replacing a M11, M11M and Q3 by a M-EV1 has very little influence on the pictures. ...Show more →
Selecting a camera is not that much about which one generates the best technical image quality. In my case, it is also about the camera I enjoy using most, which is reflected in the images I take.
Semantics ... especially cyber-comms across native languages ... can be a tough gig, sometimes ... even when coming from well respected fellow members.
Just some .02 on the "tools" vs. "toys" thing.
I have tools in my kitchen ... but, I'm not a professional chef. They are still the tools with which we produce things. I have woodworking tools in my garage, but I'm not a professional carpenter. Imo, tools are those things that we use to aid our production tasks of whatever it is we endeavor to produce with them.
I suppose different folks draw the line differently regarding the difference between a tool / toy ... the latter being something I'd consider not worthy of professional use, but ... just because I choose to not use a tool for profession use, that doesn't make it a "toy". Granted, it might be a discretionary tool, relegated to a discretionary function (i.e. hobby), but I don't think that necessarily downgrades a tool > toy ... based on its discretionary / personal (i.e. non-professional) use case.
In the end, I like to invest in good tools ... whether they are chisels and knives that will hold an edge, or optics. There again, the semantics of "good" tools has a relative subjectivity to it.
But, at the end of the day ... I try and adhere to the summary of "Don't fight with your tools." I reckon that one could supplant that with "Don't fight with your toys." In either regard ("tool" or "toy"), the joy of usage shouldn't be something that frustrates you or commands your attention to the tool / toy more than the focus of using it should benefit. Although, the connotation of "tool" does conjure up a more robust build / durability, longevity, etc. for harder service / duty than a "toy" might. But, even then ... I think our gear falls into more of consumer grade vs. professional grade service ... both still being tools, moreover than toys. Toys are what I get my grandkids. Tools are what I get my wife and kids. YMMV
That said, we all have differences regarding what we like / don't like ... whether we use them professionally, or personally ... good tools are a joy to use. Good toys are fun to play with. I can use just about anything, but I interface better with some than others.
Which takes us back to everything from RF > SLR > TLR > DSLR > Mirrorles > EVF > LCD ... and the sub-variants of screens / overlays / aids / etc. Even though the current discussion is mostly the RF vs. EVF comparison ... our beloved craft has a long history of viewing options, as well as a long history of (strong) preferences in differing opinions about the merits of pro / con they afford us.
The more things change, the more they stay the same ... kinda thing.
Humans are a tribal species. Admit it or not we like being in our tribes. And sometimes we forget that we’re already part of a larger tribe and try to split it into smaller sections. You can be camp RF or camp EVF or both but don’t forget your real tribe is photographer.
If there was a perfect camera for everybody, we’d all use it and there’d only be one option. Thankfully there isn’t so we can celebrate the diversity of photographers and photography.
We are all equal members of this little club, no matter the camera, lens or level of expertise. We are all here because we LOVE photography. Whether it be from the gear we use or the results we get it’s irrelevant. Working or not doesn’t matter. Expert of beginner? Leica, Hasselblad or Holga? None of it matters.
RF’s aren’t better than EVF’s. Or the other way around. The M11 isn’t better than the M9. A Sonyisn’t better than a SL3. Because as much as we come here to talk about gear. The passion for photography isn’t all about technical perfection. Different gear moves different people in different directions because that’s what speaks to them. But we’re all just photographers.
Whatever you gear, I hope that 2026 allows you to enjoy using it as often as possible.
I’ve picked one up used and absolutely love it. My eyes aren’t what they once were and. it has been great. also love the ability to close focus with it.
So far, only about 9% of this poll voters plan to buy the M EV-1, while most of the group is either hesitant or uninterested, with 38% waiting to see if a 2nd-generation version improves the design and 34% saying they do not want a built-in EVF at all, and another 19% indicating they would only consider it at a lower price.
I am rather enjoying mine, but I am not a one camera person, I enjoy M11P safari, My M4, my M4-2, my MP and my Nikons Z8 and Z7IIs each has its place along with all the glass, just question of the when and what for, but I am already thinking my M11-EV1 needs to go on a trip with me with a nice lens selection- maybe the new LLL 35 1.4 will be one, maybe with a basic black M4-2 to stay basic black classy hybrid and capture some light.
“You're off to Great Places!
Today is your day!
Your mountain is waiting,
So... get on your way!”
― Dr. Seuss, Oh, the Places You’ll Go!
Fred Miranda wrote:
So far, only about 9% of this poll voters plan to buy the M EV-1, while most of the group is either hesitant or uninterested, with 38% waiting to see if a 2nd-generation version improves the design and 34% saying they do not want a built-in EVF at all, and another 19% indicating they would only consider it at a lower price.
I wonder how 9% would compare to M11M or M11D buyers? I suspect the latter is lower than 9%.
Because Leica doesn’t really build cameras to a price, I would think if 9% of M buyers would buy an M-EV1 Leica might consider that a success. Then there’s the 38% that could be convinced later….
Today was my fourth day-long rental of the EV-1. I have an M9, an M11, and about 10 M lenses. I can't focus as quickly with the EV-1 as I can with the M11. And the faster the lens, the slower it is. It takes me no more than 1 second with the 50mm 0.95 to aim and take a picture with the M11. And about 3 seconds with the EV-1. I'm sure I could do it faster with practice, but why would I? It's easier for me to buy an X2D2. It's about the same price.
flash wrote:
I wonder how 9% would compare to M11M or M11D buyers? I suspect the latter is lower than 9%.
Because Leica doesn’t really build cameras to a price, I would think if 9% of M buyers would buy an M-EV1 Leica might consider that a success. Then there’s the 38% that could be convinced later….
Gordon
If only 1/3 of the 38%'ers get there, say 11% more, that brings the 9% to 20% total-ish. I've noticed that Leica products have a curve of adoption that seem to languish for a bit, so that doesn't look unreasonable to me. Between the $$$ and the "uninspriring" tech ... that lag time is inevitable ... but, it isn't anything new in the universe of Leica.
There's a segment of folks that eventually get to a place where they warm up to it anyway (for various reasons). I'm pretty sure Leica recognizes the "long play" involved here.
Don't have an M EV1 but have the same issue when using manual focus lenses with an EVF. Since I can see exactly where the plane of focus is I can't resist getting it precisely where I want it. And that takes time. With the rangefinder once the two images align I am good to go. Now clearly the magnified EVF image allows for more precision, but even when the shot does not require it, I can't help myself.
Question for Leica M EV1 shooters: When shooting at smaller apertures like f/4, f/5.6, or smaller, do you focus with the lens already stopped down, or do you focus wide open and then stop down for the shot? I understand that stopping down first could reduce focusing accuracy, so I’m curious about your technique.
For comparison, with the SL2 and AF lenses, the camera always focuses wide open and only stops down to the working aperture when taking the picture. Most mirrorless cameras behave this way.
I don't find the need to be honest, it seems easy enough to focus stopped down. I mostly focus without focus peaking or mag, if I do use mag I typically use only the first level which is about the same as the 35mm framelines in the OVF of a standard M. I shoot on high contrast monochrome and this gives quite a pronounced shimmer to the area in focus. This is a bit lens dependent and works best as one would expect on highly resolving lenses. Overall I prefer the optical viewfinder but for some scenarios like lenses with marked focus shift or flare the EV1 for me is very preferable to the visoflex 2.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Question for Leica M EV1 shooters: When shooting at smaller apertures like f/4, f/5.6, or smaller, do you focus with the lens already stopped down, or do you focus wide open and then stop down for the shot? I understand that stopping down first could reduce focusing accuracy, so I’m curious about your technique.
For comparison, with the SL2 and AF lenses, the camera always focuses wide open and only stops down to the working aperture when taking the picture. Most mirrorless cameras behave this way.
I mostly focus at F stop I am using, I rarely go over 5.6 and enlarge the image, often shut off focus peak- I have the front switch set to easily do that so I can do with and without if I want. All the M11 EV1 pics I have posted have been done this way. I think enlarging is my key need- old eyes
For those shooting the EV1 ... real world battery life =
Just for thoroughness, I was comparing the various M11 variants and the info I got was striking. I heard numbers, so low for the EV1, that it reminded me of my CL (must carry spares) vs. M240P (full day on one). I could see that being possible if the 61MP and the EV combine for a lot of energy consumption ... quid pro quo, kind of thing.
Curious what real world M11P vs. M-EV1 looks like (compared to my M10R).
Also, wondering if the pixel binning function of Triple Resolution (i.e. shooting at 36MP vs. 61MP) has any impact on battery life with the M11's.
The M EV1 uses more battery than the M11. I have mine set to EVF extended so the screen is only on when I'm using the EVF. I have not carefully measured it but I guess about 25 - 50% more battery than the M11.
I never use the triple resolution, I think it's just a gimmick I never saw any advantage on the M11 so I only use the full 60MP resolution.
bcaslis wrote:
The M EV1 uses more battery than the M11. I have mine set to EVF extended so the screen is only on when I'm using the EVF. I have not carefully measured it but I guess about 25 - 50% more battery than the M11.
I never use the triple resolution, I think it's just a gimmick I never saw any advantage on the M11 so I only use the full 60MP resolution.
I use EVF extended on my SL2-S ... so, that makes sense. I wish there was a way to be EVF only ... BUT, eye activated when you bring it up. That instead of LCD on, then switching to EVF, like it does in the extended mode.
Raises a question ... can you just turn the EVF / LCD both OFF? I could see using an optical shoe mount viewfinder for framing purposes when zone shooting, to preserve battery, also ... or, when zone shooting from the hip.
I suppose turning down the illumination on both LCD / EVF will help somewhat, too ... the prospect of less than < 300 shots / battery charge isn't the most appealing aspects for an M.
As to the "gimmick" of TR ... the prospect of using it never really appealed to me (use full file, work in PP) at first blush, either. But I was just brainstorming if it had any battery advantage / disadvantage to be aware of. Writing less data to the card, etc.
