_jim_ wrote:
Japanese retailer (Shotenkobo) posted a shot of what, I assume, is a production model (based on serial number - 265/998). I can't say if this is an image they took or it's a photo provided by LLL, but you can click the link to see it:
Regarding this, I heard a rumor (would like to get clarification on this if possible)is that there are 998 + a few prototypes made for primarily the Chinese market.
Another interesting rumor that I would like some clarification on if possible is that the 300 limited edition [international] batch is pure titanium alloy throughout, where the 998+X are simply titanium coating finishing stack over aluminum.
So in terms of at least superficial aesthetics, there are at least 1,30x copies of the Ti version. If the material composition rarity is true then the 300 would be quite special. If not, that's okay too. Either way, I'd like to know if LLL can chime in on this.
As for the post immediately above this questioning the material made for titanium version, I had the same doubt.
So I took a little bit math. Titanium is about 66% denser than aluminum, that’s 4.5 vs 2.7 gram per cube millimetre.
On LLL website , the lens in titanium weights 300 gram while aluminum weights 278 gram. Assuming that 22 gram difference represents 66% dense difference, that means aluminum part of the aluminum lens is only 33 gram, which leaves other 245 gram to glasses and plastic.
So aluminum lens is 33 grams aluminum plus 245 grams glasses.
Titanium lens is 55 grams titanium plus 245 grams glasses.
That’s almost impossible!
Conclusion: the titanium version is not true titanium, I think it’s an alloy mixed with aluminum
The website lists it as a Ti Alloy, it also lists the aluminum as a 7075 alloy so your density figure of that one would be off too as it’s closer to 2.81 g/cm3
My math is not off. I assume it’s pure titanium and aluminum, and reached the conclusion of impossibility. It’s called “ Reductio ad impossibile” in mathematical deduction.
So I said it must be alloy.
Besides, in a typical Summilux lens, there are about no more 65-70% weight is from glass. So that 245 gram v.s. 22 gram distribution is definitely off, therefore it must be alloy
Marcus Stein wrote:
My math is not off. I assume it’s pure titanium and reached the conclusion of impossibility. So I said it must be alloy.
Besides, in a typical Summilux lens, there are about no more 65-70% weight is from glass. So that 245 gram v.s. 22 gram distribution is definitely off, therefore it must be alloy
Assuming pure titanium would be pretty wild considering its high reactivity with air. Also, I said your density figure is off, not your math. They aren’t using pure Al or pure Ti.
The website had already disclosed the use of alloys for both versions. 7075 for the Al version.
If I had to make an educated guess on the Ti alloy used (if they used a true alloy and not plating) it would be Ti-6Al-4V as that is the most commonly used alloy for that type of application, but that is speculation on my part. The other option would be some kind of Ti plating as someone else already speculated.
But as you said, that would still require the vast majority of the weight to be glass. Certainly possible but pretty impossible to speculate beyond that.
Ok I got what you said. There is no way to know what sense of the alloy being used . Because there is no way to know which alloy they use .
Anyway, we can agree at least titanium version must be some sort of alloy and its dense is quite close to aluminum. So there must be oniy tiny amount of titanium in it
Marcus Stein wrote:
Ok I got what you said. There is no way to know what sense of the alloy being used . Because there is no way to know which alloy they use .
Anyway, we can agree at least titanium version must be some sort of alloy and its dense is quite close to aluminum. So there must be oniy tiny amount of titanium in it
We just need Fred to tear down his new lens and let us know, haha
If all other components are identical, then a breakdown and weight of the housing would be required to confirm.
Just to reiterate this is a rumor I heard from two sources when they compared the /300 serial unit to the /998 units they stated there was a clear difference. I have no personal experience comparing the two.
Mainly I'm interested in the nuances of the website stating 300 limited and the discovery of the 998 serial production units.
I'm not a metals expert, so I can't say exactly what alloy it is,, but the LLL 35/1.4 "11873" Titanium copy I have doesn't feel like aluminum or brass. It feels consistent with the other LLL titanium lenses I own. It’s hard to put into words, but the difference is noticeable when rotating the rings and handling the barrel.
I remember there were two versions of the 50/2 Elcan. One was titanium, like the LLL 35/1.4 Aspherical titanium, and the other was painted in a "titanium gray" finish. That may be what someone is referring to here. The titanium alloy versions are always special editions.
The handling especially with the focus ring is in line with what I heard (that there is was a clear difference between the /300 and /998 copies). If the /300 copy handles like the other Ti alloy lenses, it's relieving to know. I'll be picking up my /300 copy in a few days.
For those of you who received the shipping notice, may I know when you placed the order ?
I placed my order on Nov 20 to be shipped to Canada and yet to hear anything.
Marcus Stein wrote:
For those of you who received the shipping notice, may I know when you placed the order ?
I placed my order on Nov 20 to be shipped to Canada and yet to hear anything.
I reserved pretty early and it was technically available to pick up a week ago (overseas), so the timeline is right for stateside orders more or less. There's more load on the courier systems everywhere right now due to holidays (Christmas, New Years, Chinese end of year stuff), but most orders should be fulfilled in time in the order received.
Marcus Stein wrote:
For those of you who received the shipping notice, may I know when you placed the order ?
I placed my order on Nov 20 to be shipped to Canada and yet to hear anything.
I placed my order on the Nov 14 and have not yet heard.
Trying not to post in Fred's thread until most of his review sections are completed. NBP (Google Nano Banana Pro AI) renders for some combination looks.
