Nifty Fifty wrote:
I'm sorry, but I think the grips completely ruin the design of the Nikon Zf, making it look ungainly and cobbled together. This is particularly noticeable on the SL.
Well the problem is the Zf handles like crap without a grip. It’s simply too heavy with too little to hold on to. Even with a grip I think it’s a bit heavy. The Zfc is actually the better size and weight for this design style by a good margin.
Jman13 wrote:
Well the problem is the Zf handles like crap without a grip. It’s simply too heavy with too little to hold on to. Even with a grip I think it’s a bit heavy. The Zfc is actually the better size and weight for this design style by a good margin.
That's clear to me, but why buy a ZF if not for the design? In my opinion, it only looks good without a grip, and even then, only with the two SE lenses or some Voigtländer lenses. Many M lenses look out of place and somehow undersized on the relatively large body. We don't even need to talk about modern Nikkor lenses. I think you have to make a compromise: either a stylish retro look, but with significant limitations regarding ergonomics and lens choice, or good ergonomics and no lens limitations, but an ugly design. In other words, you have to decide what's more important to you: form or function. Buying a beautiful design and then ruining it because you're bothered by the ergonomics is, in my opinion, the worst option (at least since the Z5 II), as you're sacrificing a great design for half-baked ergonomics. Since the SL came out, I've been thinking about getting a ZF with a 40mm Nokton as a fun camera, and I'd gladly accept the relatively poor ergonomics, but somehow the camera is just too big (and a bit too heavy) for me. The Zfc would be perfect in that respect, as it's comparable to the originals. Unfortunately, it has too small a sensor.
I’ve considered selling my zf for a Z5ii because of this but I’ll just keep using the small rig and looks be damned. I like its output.
The other thing is, it’d be nice to have the similar controls between the z8 and z5ii but again, I’ll live.
Nifty Fifty wrote:
That's clear to me, but why buy a ZF if not for its design? In my opinion, it only looks good without a grip, and even then, only with the two SE lenses or some Voigtländer lenses. Many M lenses look out of place and somehow undersized on the relatively large body. We don't even need to discuss modern Nikkor lenses. I think you have to make a choice: either a stylish retro look, but with significant limitations regarding ergonomics and lens choice, or good ergonomics and no lens limitations, but an ugly design. In other words, you have to decide what's more important to you: form or function. Buying a beautiful design and then ruining it because you're bothered by the ergonomics is, in my opinion, the worst option, especially considering the Z5 Mark II. Since the SL came out, I've also been thinking about a ZF with a 40mm Noktonian as a fun camera, but somehow it's too big and heavy for me. The ZFc would be perfect in that respect, as it's comparable to the originals. Unfortunately, its sensor is too small....Show more →
Nifty Fifty wrote:
That's clear to me, but why buy a ZF if not for the design? In my opinion, it only looks good without a grip, and even then, only with the two SE lenses or some Voigtländer lenses. Many M lenses look out of place and somehow undersized on the relatively large body. We don't even need to talk about modern Nikkor lenses. I think you have to make a compromise: either a stylish retro look, but with significant limitations regarding ergonomics and lens choice, or good ergonomics and no lens limitations, but an ugly design. In other words, you have to decide what's more important to you: form or function. Buying a beautiful design and then ruining it because you're bothered by the ergonomics is, in my opinion, the worst option (at least since the Z5 II), as you're sacrificing a great design for half-baked ergonomics. Since the SL came out, I've been thinking about getting a ZF with a 40mm Nokton as a fun camera, and I'd gladly accept the relatively poor ergonomics, but somehow the camera is just too big (and a bit too heavy) for me. The Zfc would be perfect in that respect, as it's comparable to the originals. Unfortunately, it has too small a sensor....Show more →
I don’t really have an issue with the grips, especially on the black Zf, which I think looks better, but it’s largely why I eventually sold my Zf. Just too heavy for what it is. (I use a Z6 III for my main body). I did pick up a Zfc for that retro itch (which I like mostly for all the dials), and it’s really the form factor needed. I do use a grip with it, but I have the black Zfc and I think it looks fine with the grip.
Nifty Fifty wrote:
I'm sorry, but I think the grips completely ruin the design of the Nikon Zf, making it look ungainly and cobbled together. This is particularly noticeable on the SL.
Function over form. It's pretty difficult to hold the Zf with an 85mm 1.2 S or 70-200 on the front
fjablo wrote:
33mp vs 24mp is the difference of 7.000 pixels vs. 6.000 pixels on the long edge. So your cropping advantage is 16% - using your 40mm lens example: let's say you feel comfortable cropping from 40mm to 50mm on the Zf today, then you'd be able to crop to 58mm on a 33mp sensor..
For a meaningful advantage in resolution it would have to step up to the 45mp sensor or even the 61mp Sony sensor.
PixiPhotography wrote:
Function over form.
Why then choose a Zf SL instead of a Z5ii in this case, which is not only more functional but also significantly cheaper?
Ripolini wrote:
Only the first one doesn't look kitsch.
It's the price that those who care about aesthetics but have bad taste have to pay
retro + kitsch: guys in Tokyo are going crazy.
With my new Thypoch Simera 28/1.4 in silver, that would be a really cool fit.
Especially since I also have a matching silver-colored CZJ 58/2 Biotar.
However, it's definitely not worth €2,499 to me.
I'd rather stick with my tried-and-tested Z6 for a compact set with my silver Thypoch Simera & silver CZJ Biotar, and for the heavy stuff I have the Z8 anyway.
Nifty Fifty wrote:
Why then choose a Zf SL instead of a Z5ii in this case, which is not only more functional but also significantly cheaper?
Well tbh, I got this Zf with some coupons/rebates/etc a little below what a new Z5 II costs. Secondly, its the retro look and the "feel" of shooting with a retro inspired camera... I like shooting with the Zf. I have both Z5 II and Zf, and I always reached for the Zf.
PixiPhotography wrote:
Well tbh, I got this Zf with some coupons/rebates/etc a little below what a new Z5 II costs. Secondly, its the retro look and the "feel" of shooting with a retro inspired camera... I like shooting with the Zf. I have both Z5 II and Zf, and I always reached for the Zf.
I can understand that. Personally, I'd use the ZF with small lenses that match the design and mount the big, bulky ones on the Z. You'll never get the same feeling with a mirrorless camera as you would with an F or FM, but with a modern, clunky lens on the front, the fun of using the ZF would be completely gone for me, even without such a strange grip.
Totally agree with Jman that the right size for the Zf is actually the Zfc. I own the Zf and it's just a little too big (thick mostly) and heavy for what it is. While I like the camera, I don't love it due to the handling with anything other than a small, light lens. I have the Japanese Nikon Zf grip and while it works, the added bulk and weight is not great. But I need to use it with anything other than a small lens.
I get what the Zf is designed for (and that's the reason I bought it), but the retro design misses one critical point related to the original designs - those SLRs were always shot with a manual focus lens, and hence when shooting, a user would have to have TWO hands on the camera at all times - one to hold the camera, and one to focus.
With AF lenses on the Zf, a second hand isn't necessary, so you're left trying to grip the camera with one hand and it (and the designs it is a homage to) were just not designed for that. So it's a bit awkward and ultimately a bit of a design failure. Had the Zf been smaller and lighter (like the Zfc) this would have minimized the problem, assuming the lenses could be smaller as well. Also, note that when cameras moved to autofocus, the camera bodies started including a grip.
weezintrumpete wrote:
Totally agree with Jman that the right size for the Zf is actually the Zfc. I own the Zf and it's just a little too big (thick mostly) and heavy for what it is. While I like the camera, I don't love it due to the handling with anything other than a small, light lens. I have the Japanese Nikon Zf grip and while it works, the added bulk and weight is not great. But I need to use it with anything other than a small lens.
I get what the Zf is designed for (and that's the reason I bought it), but the retro design misses one critical point related to the original designs - those SLRs were always shot with a manual focus lens, and hence when shooting, a user would have to have TWO hands on the camera at all times - one to hold the camera, and one to focus.
With AF lenses on the Zf, a second hand isn't necessary, so you're left trying to grip the camera with one hand and it (and the designs it is a homage to) were just not designed for that. So it's a bit awkward and ultimately a bit of a design failure. Had the Zf been smaller and lighter (like the Zfc) this would have minimized the problem, assuming the lenses could be smaller as well. Also, note that when cameras moved to autofocus, the camera bodies started including a grip.
Some interesting points here. I have personally never shot one handed with a camera, nor would I. I specifically use the Zf's with a small light lens, usually manual focus, either Nikon or Voitlander, and usually for everyday street or walk around. Maybe that's why I don't see it as a "heavy" camera. The Z8 is my heaviest camera now and it is used with the larger lenses for wildlife, action, or studio. The Zf's bring back a special enjoyment to photography for me. I started this journey in the film days and we constantly looked for the perfect camera that would do it all, never found it, and digital has not changed that fact. It has only given us steps closer to that goal. Guess I will just enjoy the latest and greatest changes as they come, as they surely will.
And yes, they are eye candy aren't they? You can't put a wood grip and soft shutter buttons on those big boy!
They could have improved the Nikon Zf handling a lot by giving it a proper thumb rest. The OM-System OM-3 does this a bit better.
I'm still using the older version of the Neewer grip (the one with the red stripe + tripod screw on the side) and it doesn't look bolted-on to me. But I don't think it would fit the silver version well..
fjablo wrote:
They could have improved the Nikon Zf handling a lot by giving it a proper thumb rest. The OM-System OM-3 does this a bit better.
I'm still using the older version of the Neewer grip (the one with the red stripe + tripod screw on the side) and it doesn't look bolted-on to me. But I don't think it would fit the silver version well..
Agree, the thumb rest would be nice. I believe Neewer may have released their silver version. Still has the red stripe, but I have the original in black, and the red stripe is easily removed.
Vento wrote:
With my new Thypoch Simera 28/1.4 in silver, that would be a really cool fit.
Especially since I also have a matching silver-colored CZJ 58/2 Biotar.
However, it's definitely not worth €2,499 to me.
I'd rather stick with my tried-and-tested Z6 for a compact set with my silver Thypoch Simera & silver CZJ Biotar, and for the heavy stuff I have the Z8 anyway.
MediaMarkt in Germany offers the black Zf for 1469.75 Euros during their current promo (MwSt geschenkt/aka no tax). They still have some left. The Z5II sold out immediately for 1343,70 Euros. Kind of interesting, that most prefer the ergonomics of the Z5II. I do like the Zf design, but not the size and weight combined with the lack of a real integrated grip. Kind of reminds me of my old and long gone Fuji XT2 or much older Pentax Spotmatic F.
I would be interested in a Z5II version with the older but excellent 45mp sensor from the Z7/Z7 II. I know, it will never happen. I guess I have to look for a Z7II deal to replace my high shutter count Z7. The advantage would be no more firmware updates, that could potentially disable my Viltrox lenses. I really like the small and excellent Viltrox 85 EVO and 14 AIR.
Thanks for the heads-up.
The price is really attractive.
I'll keep an eye on it; it'll probably be a while before the silver one drops to that price range.
But I'm in no hurry, since I already have a Z6 and a Z8.
I'm itching to do an IR full spectrum conversion on my Z6, though.
Once I've decided to do that, a 2nd non-converted Z-body with a retro design would be ideal to complement my many adapted vintage and modern manual focus lenses for the Z-mount.
Vento wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up.
The price is really attractive.
I'll keep an eye on it; it'll probably be a while before the silver one drops to that price range.
But I'm in no hurry, since I already have a Z6 and a Z8.
I'm itching to do an IR full spectrum conversion on my Z6, though.
Once I've decided to do that, a 2nd non-converted Z-body with a retro design would be ideal to complement my many adapted vintage and modern manual focus lenses for the Z-mount.
I have not noticed any comments about the Silver body specifically as opposed to the original, so the following is just my two cents worth.
I purchased a Zf (black) when they were first released. When the color models were introduced, I was very interested in the Silver Sepia Brown, but it was not in stock, so I purchased the Black/Silver, when as per a previous post, the pricing from B&H was discounted to the original price of the black model prior to tariff increases. I was actually surprised to notice there was a tactile difference in the silver version as respects buttons and wheels, which is very smooth.
Two weeks ago I received a notification from B&H that the Sepia Brown was in stock. I went on line to verify it was still in stock, ran a quote on the original Black Zf for trade in, and placed an order. Upon looking at my receipt the next morning to verify shipment, I now noticed a $300 discount sale. Apparently the Nikon discount had not yet been posted on line when I ordered the day before, so B&H rebated me $200 plus tax on the spot, which brought the price to that of the original release for my new second silver Zf.
I can report the second Silver body has the same silky tactile feeling as the Black Silver one. I suspect this may be a result of a difference in the composition of the painted black as opposed to the silver finish on brass. It seems a small thing, but I find it really adds to the camera's feel for me. I personally do not consider the Zf as too heavy, and wood grips work well for my purposes, i.e. Nikon Z and Voigtlander primes. All of these points are very subjective to the user. It's nice to have choices.
To anybody thinking about an IR conversion, I thought it was strongly recommended not to use Nikon Z bodies for that due to PDAF banding. Make sure to do your research first. Kolari themselves says that the way to work around this banding is simply to AI clone out those sections of the image, which is farcical at best.
I just received my silver/black body today. I mounted my Voigtlander 40mm 1.2 Nokton on it and I’m a happy camper. It will likely live on this camera body. I also added the Smallrig brown leather camera strap for aesthetics.
It will be a go for a walk and have fun camera for me so looking forward to enjoying it.
