Not going to be redundant and talk about the same pros/cons posted above but something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the battery life on the GR III is not good. It depends on how you shoot but you likely want to keep an extra battery on you. While it is a truly pocketable camera, take into account pocketing an extra battery, phone, wallet, and keys... at that point might as well bring a small bag and then the size difference between the two doesn't matter much anymore.
mdude85 wrote:
The AF on the X100VI will be better for sure, and the experience of shooting is a bit more analog. The Ricoh is truly a point and shoot camera with a MASP dial. I don't see one as better than the other, they are just different.
Also note that the GRIII has a wider lens than the X100VI.
Going to say something else about the X100 as I have the original V version. I wouldn't really characterize it as a pocketable camera. It can fit it in a large jacket pocket of my winter parka, but that's about it. But the Ricoh is a truly small camera that can fit in most pockets as well as small fanny packs etc.
Have you ruled out the Sony ZV1 or RX100 or Leica D-Lux? ...Show more →
This has been my battle. Ricoh being truly pocketable vs give up some size for more capability (and twice the price).
I looked at the ZV1, RX100 and Leica. I was looking for a more photo centric camera, so discounted the Sony. The RX100 is nice but didn't want that small of a sensor, but was willing to give APS-C a go. Same with the Leica although its form factor really reminded of the RX1R, which I wish Sony would release an update to.
Driften wrote:
Having owed several versions of the X100 (F/V/VI) as well as the GRIIIx I can understand the decision. The GR brings such a small size that I could fit into the pocket of my jeans and a good sensor with a little stabilization it seems like a winner, but..... The lack of a viewfinder hurts in bright light, the autofocus isn't as good so people fall back on zone focus, and put things on the camera to improve dust resistance that hurt it's small size. I liked the images I got out of it but lack of screen brightness when turned all the way up in bright sun made it unusable and I sold it.
Of the different X100 series cameras I've owned I like the X100VI the best. The addition of IBIS and larger sensor to make the most of the fixed lens are important to me. If 35mm if your ideal, then a V could matter, but if you want more flexibility than that like I do, the VI is better. It's more like how I used my Leica Q2 and why I liked the Q2 much better than the Q. Right now the VI is my favorite EDC camera even though it's not as small as a GrIIIx....Show more →
Thank you for this first hand feedback. For the Ricoh, I got the sense that everyone went to zone or snap focus because the AF wasn't able to perform.. and being a camera from 2018, I think it's really showing its age today as well. It could use an update but who knows when that will be, and I don't like to speculate and wait.
milend wrote:
I’m in the same boat as you - I just got my new X100VI three days ago (it was in stock, so I grabbed one).
I also have an A7IV which I use with the 40mm F2.5 and the 24-50mm F2.8. I realised that I just didn’t want to take the Sony with me because it’s too bulky.
Firstly, the negatives - autofocus feels prehistoric compared to the Sony (or even to my previous DSLRs, actually even to my Canon 1V which is a 25yr old camera).
AF for still subjects - totally fine. AF for moving subjects - don’t expect much, especially wide open.
In terms of AF, there’s speed, accuracy, noise - I’d say it scores poorly on most but accuracy and speed are more important to me. I just wish Fuji would put linear motors in it and fix their focus algorithms, then it would be the perfect EDC. If you have kids, I’d think twice about ability to get them in the moment.
The lens - F2 is soft (check Dustin Abbot’s review), you’d want to be shooting 2.8+ if you want sharp.
The good stuff - it’s a lot more portable, has lots of accessories for it (eg perfect fitting cases etc which is not possible for interchangeable cameras etc).
Generally, I’d keep it as an EDC as there’s nothing better, I couldn’t bring myself buying a GR III which is very old tech by now.
If Sony release a RX1Riii or there’s a GRIV - as long as they have fast and accurate autofocus, I’d switch in a heartbeat....Show more →
The age of the GR is concerning to me considering the reports of the AF.. but, so small!
I agree that if Sony and Ricoh updated their RX1R/GR lineup, I would be having a different decision on my hand, but I don't like speculating and waiting.. just have to decide with the options at hand.
I currently own an X100V and a GRiii. I've owned a GRiiix and I've also owned an X100F before I bought the V. Even to this day it's a struggle and there is no right answer.
The X100V is bigger. For sure, by a decent margin. You have to make a conscious decision to bring it and what pocket to stuff it in. It fits into jacket pockets and I can fit it into my back pockets of my pants. I have no problems walking around with it in my back pocket but when you go to sit you obviously have to make a decision of where to put it or if you are going to hold it. The X100V, like all of Fuji, have great photo's that really don't need to be edited if you don't like to edit. I, personally, don't like editing. So I want to just shoot it and maybe make a minor tweak if the WB is off or something like that. The built in digital crop is super handy on the V. It will upscale the image and does a pretty decent job for capturing moments at those other cropped lengths. The X100VI crops the image and leaves you with a cropped image with no up-scaling. Sure there are a bunch of apps to take care of this in post, however it's nice to just have it done. The weather sealing is a big plus for a one camera take anywhere etc... I've found it super useful to have the dials to adjust what I want when changing environments with the camera off. Also the video on the X100V or X100VI blows the GR line out of the water.
The GRiiix I had was great but too tight for family moments/daily carry. You can, however, put on the wide angle converter meant for the GRiii and you get a 30mm crop out of it which will make the range a little more useful for daily. I used that for some vacation trips and was pleased with the results. However, when you do that you make the camera larger and lose the biggest strength of the GR line. The GRiii and Griiix image sharpness are better than Fuji. There is no debate there. However, my Fuji images are sharp too. They just aren't as sharp side by side but that's pixel peeping. 100% sharp and 90% sharp are both still sharp and in focus and very usable. The downsides of the GRiii or GRiiix is that they are not weather sealed. For a daily camera I'd prefer something to be weather sealed. Also, there are many accounts of dust getting into the sensor. I personally have no had dust but I use a cap over the lens and maybe that helps or maybe it doesn't. I do feel that the 28mm is a better daily everything camera focal length to document life. Shooting inside where you can't take a step back does come up from time to time. I've read people complain about the Fuji and Ricoh AF. Yes they aren't as good as Sony but I've not had many problems with either. For fast moving you can use the Ricoh's snap focus or just zone focus the Fuji. It's also super fast to just take the Ricoh out of the pocket turn it on and snap a photo. It's a great snapshooter. Lastly, the video SUCKS. It would be better off if it didn't have it at all.
In the end what do you value most. Do you value size? weather sealing? focal range? What I always tell people is the X100V is a better overall camera but I think the GRiii/x is far more likely to be carried with you at all times which means it will get more shots. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either right now, people will say both are "old" or "not worth it" but let's be real with ourselves. Both are super capable cameras that produce amazing results to this day by hundreds and thousands of people. Who cares when I camera comes out so long as it gets the results you want/need.
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text/incoherent rambling. If you have any questions just let me know or PM me. Welcome to answer any questions.
Evection wrote:
If you want a balance of Ricoh's form factor and Fuji's AF, you can also get an X-M5 with the XF27 2.8 pancake. That's smaller than the X100 -- I easily fit it in my jacket pocket.
A bit narrower focal length, but I'd argue it's actually better for family shooting. (And there is supposedly a 23mm pancake coming, if you prefer that).
A few caveats, though -- no IBIS and flimsier build quality, as you'd expect from an entry-level camera.
I was at B&H over the Christmas holiday and handled the X-M5. I really liked the size, and with a pancake, it was definitely a considering for a while. However, the lack of IBIS didn't sit well with me. Also, going into the interchangable realm is a gift and a curse for me.. The ability to swap lenses opens the doors and knowing myself, I would have GAS and decision paralysis.. Was looking for a platform that could keep it simple. Fixed lens and acceptable quality so I can just shoot and be in the moment.
jmcy wrote:
Not going to be redundant and talk about the same pros/cons posted above but something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the battery life on the GR III is not good. It depends on how you shoot but you likely want to keep an extra battery on you. While it is a truly pocketable camera, take into account pocketing an extra battery, phone, wallet, and keys... at that point might as well bring a small bag and then the size difference between the two doesn't matter much anymore.
Thanks for bringing up this point. And you're right, the battery life is medocre... 150 shots maybe? Although as a day to day camera for short outings, I think is fine?
outdoorsben3 wrote:
Where to begin where to begin.....
I currently own an X100V and a GRiii. I've owned a GRiiix and I've also owned an X100F before I bought the V. Even to this day it's a struggle and there is no right answer.
The X100V is bigger. For sure, by a decent margin. You have to make a conscious decision to bring it and what pocket to stuff it in. It fits into jacket pockets and I can fit it into my back pockets of my pants. I have no problems walking around with it in my back pocket but when you go to sit you obviously have to make a decision of where to put it or if you are going to hold it. The X100V, like all of Fuji, have great photo's that really don't need to be edited if you don't like to edit. I, personally, don't like editing. So I want to just shoot it and maybe make a minor tweak if the WB is off or something like that. The built in digital crop is super handy on the V. It will upscale the image and does a pretty decent job for capturing moments at those other cropped lengths. The X100VI crops the image and leaves you with a cropped image with no up-scaling. Sure there are a bunch of apps to take care of this in post, however it's nice to just have it done. The weather sealing is a big plus for a one camera take anywhere etc... I've found it super useful to have the dials to adjust what I want when changing environments with the camera off. Also the video on the X100V or X100VI blows the GR line out of the water.
The GRiiix I had was great but too tight for family moments/daily carry. You can, however, put on the wide angle converter meant for the GRiii and you get a 30mm crop out of it which will make the range a little more useful for daily. I used that for some vacation trips and was pleased with the results. However, when you do that you make the camera larger and lose the biggest strength of the GR line. The GRiii and Griiix image sharpness are better than Fuji. There is no debate there. However, my Fuji images are sharp too. They just aren't as sharp side by side but that's pixel peeping. 100% sharp and 90% sharp are both still sharp and in focus and very usable. The downsides of the GRiii or GRiiix is that they are not weather sealed. For a daily camera I'd prefer something to be weather sealed. Also, there are many accounts of dust getting into the sensor. I personally have no had dust but I use a cap over the lens and maybe that helps or maybe it doesn't. I do feel that the 28mm is a better daily everything camera focal length to document life. Shooting inside where you can't take a step back does come up from time to time. I've read people complain about the Fuji and Ricoh AF. Yes they aren't as good as Sony but I've not had many problems with either. For fast moving you can use the Ricoh's snap focus or just zone focus the Fuji. It's also super fast to just take the Ricoh out of the pocket turn it on and snap a photo. It's a great snapshooter. Lastly, the video SUCKS. It would be better off if it didn't have it at all.
In the end what do you value most. Do you value size? weather sealing? focal range? What I always tell people is the X100V is a better overall camera but I think the GRiii/x is far more likely to be carried with you at all times which means it will get more shots. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either right now, people will say both are "old" or "not worth it" but let's be real with ourselves. Both are super capable cameras that produce amazing results to this day by hundreds and thousands of people. Who cares when I camera comes out so long as it gets the results you want/need.
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text/incoherent rambling. If you have any questions just let me know or PM me. Welcome to answer any questions....Show more →
Wow, thank you for this. I don't mind the wall of text. It adds a lot of context to your point.
I have zero interest in video. So the poor performance of the Ricoh doesn't bother me.
It's interesting that you struggle to find the right answer. I wonder if maybe having both is a reasonable answer. Both have their strength, and simply need to play to those when the situation arises..
itzjere wrote:
I was at B&H over the Christmas holiday and handled the X-M5. I really liked the size, and with a pancake, it was definitely a considering for a while. However, the lack of IBIS didn't sit well with me. Also, going into the interchangable realm is a gift and a curse for me.. The ability to swap lenses opens the doors and knowing myself, I would have GAS and decision paralysis.. Was looking for a platform that could keep it simple. Fixed lens and acceptable quality so I can just shoot and be in the moment.
Valid concerns, but it is the only option that is truly pocketable with decent AF. If you insist on IBIS, you either give up the former (X100), or the latter (GR3). No perfect solution, I'm afraid.
Evection wrote:
Valid concerns, but it is the only option that is truly pocketable with decent AF. If you insist on IBIS, you either give up the former (X100), or the latter (GR3). No perfect solution, I'm afraid.
I hear ya. I appreciate you throwing out the suggestion. It was definitely something I considered.
itzjere wrote:
Thank you for this first hand feedback. For the Ricoh, I got the sense that everyone went to zone or snap focus because the AF wasn't able to perform.. and being a camera from 2018, I think it's really showing its age today as well. It could use an update but who knows when that will be, and I don't like to speculate and wait.
Yea especially since Ricoh is selling so many of them as is they are in no hurry for a better model. At least from a petapixel article it seemed like that.
itzjere wrote:
I was at B&H over the Christmas holiday and handled the X-M5. I really liked the size, and with a pancake, it was definitely a considering for a while. However, the lack of IBIS didn't sit well with me. Also, going into the interchangable realm is a gift and a curse for me.. The ability to swap lenses opens the doors and knowing myself, I would have GAS and decision paralysis.. Was looking for a platform that could keep it simple. Fixed lens and acceptable quality so I can just shoot and be in the moment.
Waiting for what should hopefully be an X-E5 announcement might have been an option, but like you said first you start out with an xf 27, then add the 18mm, then maybe a zoom or one of the bigger faster primes and spend more time shopping and analyzing than out taking pictures.
Maybe the best thing is to rent a X100VI from lensrentals for a week and see how you feel about it. They don't seem to rent the GRIII/IIIx. Better to spend $123 for 7 day rental and find out for sure than $1600+ and not like it.
Anything else is just opinions from strangers. My opinion is the X100VI is the best at this time for my needs, but isn't for everybody. Then again I replaced an X100f with a Leica Q, and a X100V with a Q2+GRIIIx, and now am back to the X100VI. I lost a varying amount of money on each of those changes, so don't be like me
Driften wrote:
Yea especially since Ricoh is selling so many of them as is they are in no hurry for a better model. At least from a petapixel article it seemed like that.
I read the same article when doing my research. Still sold out everywhere that I shop locally.
---------------------------------------------
Driften wrote:
Waiting for what should hopefully be an X-E5 announcement might have been an option, but like you said first you start out with an xf 27, then add the 18mm, then maybe a zoom or one of the bigger faster primes and spend more time shopping and analyzing than out taking pictures.
Maybe the best thing is to rent a X100VI from lensrentals for a week and see how you feel about it. They don't seem to rent the GRIII/IIIx. Better to spend $123 for 7 day rental and find out for sure than $1600+ and not like it.
Anything else is just opinions from strangers. My opinion is the X100VI is the best at this time for my needs, but isn't for everybody. Then again I replaced an X100f with a Leica Q, and a X100V with a Q2+GRIIIx, and now am back to the X100VI. I lost a varying amount of money on each of those changes, so don't be like me ...Show more →
buying the same camera twice speaks volumes. The loss in all the changes has given you perspective, and now is a great time to share it!
I have a friend who has the X100VI and GR3. Been trying to schedule meeting up with him and try them both side by side, and also hear his experience living with both.
Thanks for the link to your article. I do like the retractable lens.. makes for a very small profile and package... Definitely a strong suit of the GR.
itzjere wrote:
I hear ya. I appreciate you throwing out the suggestion. It was definitely something I considered.
Lot of good advice in this thread, but I can see how hard the trade-offs are. No perfect solution. Maybe not even a good solution.
I know this is not what you are asking for, but you might think twice about putting a smaller lens on your A7C, for example a Sony 35/2.8 ZA or the Viltrox f4.5 28mm pancake. The 35mm is an excellent lens and very small, and the Viltrox is only decent optically but very tiny (and very cheap). Or you could get the Rokinon 35/2.8, which is a touch smaller than the Sony, half the price, and quite well-reviewed for its optical and other qualities.
The virtues of learning to tolerate the slightly larger carry is that you get full-frame quality, Sony autofocus, and excellent IBIS. And with the 35/2.8 you also get top-notch optics. Finally, I hear the sensitivity to price and going this route would cost you much less than either the GR or the X100V or Vi. Those are a lot of real advantages for a small increase in size.
chiron wrote:
Lot of good advice in this thread, but I can see how hard the trade-offs are. No perfect solution. Maybe not even a good solution.
I know this is not what you are asking for, but you might think twice about putting a smaller lens on your A7C, for example a Sony 35/2.8 ZA or the Viltrox f4.5 28mm pancake. The 35mm is an excellent lens and very small, and the Viltrox is only decent optically but very tiny. Or you could even get the Rokinon 35/2.8, which is a touch smaller than the Sony, half the price, and quite well-reviewed for its optical and other qualities.
The virtues of learning to tolerate the slightly larger carry is that you get full-frame quality, Sony autofocus, and excellent IBIS. And with the 35/2.8 you also get top-notch optics. Finally, I hear the sensitivity to costs and going this route would cost you less than either the GR or the X100V or Vi. Those are a lot of real advantages for a small increase in size....Show more →
There have been some excellent points brought up in this thread.. I'm grateful for this discussion as I work through the decision in my head.
I have looked at the Viltrox pancake.. I've had it in my cart for a few weeks now. Can't seem to pull the trigger on it. As for the Zeiss 35/2.8, that is actually the same size as my current 24mm and 50mm G primes, but more full featured.. I hear you on the advantages of the A7C.. the IQ and performance are really great, and it allows me to be flexible in the Sony ecosystem.. Been trying to tolerate the bulkier side of this setup, but the thickness is what gets me at the end of the day when I'm trying to find a suitable carry solution, even with the crossbody bag. Of course there are rumors of a new Sony pancake, or I could even use APS-C pancakes, but decided to go down the road of fixed lens to see if I could simplify the solution.
itzjere wrote:
There have been some excellent points brought up in this thread.. I'm grateful for this discussion as I work through the decision in my head.
I have looked at the Viltrox pancake.. I've had it in my cart for a few weeks now. Can't seem to pull the trigger on it. As for the Zeiss 35/2.8, that is actually the same size as my current 24mm and 50mm G primes, but more full featured.. I hear you on the advantages of the A7C.. the IQ and performance are really great, and it allows me to be flexible in the Sony ecosystem.. Been trying to tolerate the bulkier side of this setup, but the thickness is what gets me at the end of the day when I'm trying to find a suitable carry solution, even with the crossbody bag. Of course there are rumors of a new Sony pancake, or I could even use APS-C pancakes, but decided to go down the road of fixed lens to see if I could simplify the solution....Show more →
I think the Viltrox is $84 until midnight tonight. Returnable at B&H.
buying the same camera twice speaks volumes. The loss in all the changes has given you perspective, and now is a great time to share it!