First off, I want to apologize for bringing up a topic that I know has been beaten to dust. I was still hoping to get some insight or experience feedback from the group here.
I am looking for a compact camera to capture day to day moments. I have a young family and would like to capture errands and small outings around town with the family, as well as random things that might capture my eye that day. Ultimately, I am looking for a compact camera that is better than my phone.
A little background about my current kit, I have a Sony A7RV with GM primes and zooms, as well as an A7C with a 24mm G and 50mm G compact prime. My intention with the A7C was to fulfil this everyday idea, and while IQ and AF is there, the size is not. The thickness of the entire setup is too much for the way I carry things on my person on a daily basis.
I want to try an APS-C fixed lens option. I would like to keep the kit simple - only shoot jpeg, not edit on my computer after and take the decision paralysis out of the equation. I don't mind tinkering with recipes for fun. Video is of zero interest to me. The more photo centric, the better.
I don't believe the X100VI is much smaller than the A7C in terms of length and width, but certainly less thick. The Ricoh GR is the obvious compact option, but it is a bit dated (2018) and I wonder if the shooting experience will show. I know there are rumors of a GR IV, but I don't like to live in speculation. The X100VI handling is appealing, but is it worth twice the price? Would love to hear opinions.
RoamingScott wrote:
Not sure why you aren't entertaining a clean used X100V as well, you'll save a bit and it's still a much more flexible camera than the GR.
Funny you bring up dust, since that's what's gonna be on your GR with no way to clean it, too
I think the V is a better choice for JPEG only shooters than the VI, and go into depth here:
I appreciate this suggestion! I looked at the V early on and wrote it off because it did not have IBIS. Its been a long time since I had a camera without some type of stabilization, but I will certainly watch the video you suggested and consider it again.
And yes, I have seen a lot of comments about the GR dust.. part of me thinks it won't be THAT bad, but maybe it's my way of justifying the better price point.. although the value is up for discussion.
Always found the X100V slightly too large for jacket pockets. Ricoh wins here, hands down.
Optically, the GR3 lens is surprisingly sharp (better than the Fuji, which is bottlenecked by its glass).
The Ricoh autofocus is terrible, though, definitely not ideal if you're going to shoot kids. Fuji AF is also going to be a downgrade compared to what you're used to with Sony, but definitely better than the GR.
Evection wrote:
Always found the X100V slightly too large for jacket pockets. Ricoh wins here, hands down.
Optically, the GR3 lens is surprisingly sharp (better than the Fuji, which is bottlenecked by its glass).
The Ricoh autofocus is terrible, though, definitely not ideal if you're going to shoot kids. Fuji AF is also going to be a downgrade compared to what you're used to with Sony, but definitely better than the GR.
Thanks for your feedback on the AF! I'm starting to wonder if the form factor is worth it if you can't get usable photos.
itzjere wrote:
First off, I want to apologize for bringing up a topic that I know has been beaten to dust. I was still hoping to get some insight or experience feedback from the group here.
I am looking for a compact camera to capture day to day moments. I have a young family and would like to capture errands and small outings around town with the family, as well as random things that might capture my eye that day. Ultimately, I am looking for a compact camera that is better than my phone.
A little background about my current kit, I have a Sony A7RV with GM primes and zooms, as well as an A7C with a 24mm G and 50mm G compact prime. My intention with the A7C was to fulfil this everyday idea, and while IQ and AF is there, the size is not. The thickness of the entire setup is too much for the way I carry things on my person on a daily basis.
I want to try an APS-C fixed lens option. I would like to keep the kit simple - only shoot jpeg, not edit on my computer after and take the decision paralysis out of the equation. I don't mind tinkering with recipes for fun. Video is of zero interest to me. The more photo centric, the better.
I don't believe the X100VI is much smaller than the A7C in terms of length and width, but certainly less thick. The Ricoh GR is the obvious compact option, but it is a bit dated (2018) and I wonder if the shooting experience will show. I know there are rumors of a GR IV, but I don't like to live in speculation. The X100VI handling is appealing, but is it worth twice the price? Would love to hear opinions.
Recently I got back from Las Vegas using my X100VI and Sony A6700 + 15/1.4 G lens. Although the Sony AF's seems quicker I have no issues with the Fuji. Even in low light it focuses very well. I have some vacations lined up for the rest of the year and definitely I will bring the X100VI with me. Even though the Sony is light it's not as portable as the Fuji which easily fits into my small crossbody bag.
I have a 256GB card with the X100VI so I shoot RAW + jpeg. Noise isn't an issue because I have the big 3 software (Photoshop, DXO PL 8 Elite and Topaz AI). One thing that gets underused for me are the Fuji filmsims. So in the near future I'll mix it up with various simulations.
jojib wrote:
Recently I got back from Las Vegas using my X100VI and Sony A6700 + 15/1.4 G lens. Although the Sony AF's seems quicker I have no issues with the Fuji. Even in low light it focuses very well. I have some vacations lined up for the rest of the year and definitely I will bring the X100VI with me. Even though the Sony is light it's not as portable as the Fuji which easily fits into my small crossbody bag.
I have a 256GB card with the X100VI so I shoot RAW + jpeg. Noise isn't an issue because I have the big 3 software (Photoshop, DXO PL 8 Elite and Topaz AI). One thing that gets underused for me are the Fuji filmsims. So in the near future I'll mix it up with various simulations. ...Show more →
I appreciate the feedback on the AF performance.. I know the Sony is going to be a high bar to clear, but I figured the Fuji would still be good enough.. Sounds like it is.
And yes, I was hoping to carry this camera in a crossbody bag.. Unfortunately while I can with the A7C and the compact prime, it makes the bag a lot bulkier than I would like, or I have to give up some room as a result.. This is where I think the Fuji or Ricoh can help with being a much 'flatter' camera system.
itzjere wrote:
First off, I want to apologize for bringing up a topic that I know has been beaten to dust. I was still hoping to get some insight or experience feedback from the group here.
I am looking for a compact camera to capture day to day moments. I have a young family and would like to capture errands and small outings around town with the family, as well as random things that might capture my eye that day. Ultimately, I am looking for a compact camera that is better than my phone.
A little background about my current kit, I have a Sony A7RV with GM primes and zooms, as well as an A7C with a 24mm G and 50mm G compact prime. My intention with the A7C was to fulfil this everyday idea, and while IQ and AF is there, the size is not. The thickness of the entire setup is too much for the way I carry things on my person on a daily basis.
I want to try an APS-C fixed lens option. I would like to keep the kit simple - only shoot jpeg, not edit on my computer after and take the decision paralysis out of the equation. I don't mind tinkering with recipes for fun. Video is of zero interest to me. The more photo centric, the better.
I don't believe the X100VI is much smaller than the A7C in terms of length and width, but certainly less thick. The Ricoh GR is the obvious compact option, but it is a bit dated (2018) and I wonder if the shooting experience will show. I know there are rumors of a GR IV, but I don't like to live in speculation. The X100VI handling is appealing, but is it worth twice the price? Would love to hear opinions.
The X100VI is noticeably thinner than a Sony A7C with a G prime. The lens is flatted and the lack of a handgrip also contributes to the compactness. Image quality is better from the Sony but I think the overall design is much better on the X100VI.
As for GRIII vs X100VI, I would take the X100VI over the GRIII if you want a good all around camera. f2.8 full frame equivalent prime lens vs f4, better AF, EVF, video features, better film simulations, and weather resistance are the biggest differences. I think the price premium justified.
For me, I've had a lot of mixed feelings with the X100VI and bought and sold far too many of them but I keep coming back to it since it's just small enough and has just good enough image quality for photo and video.
tzhang4284 wrote:
The X100VI is noticeably thinner than a Sony A7C with a G prime. The lens is flatted and the lack of a handgrip also contributes to the compactness. Image quality is better from the Sony but I think the overall design is much better on the X100VI.
As for GRIII vs X100VI, I would take the X100VI over the GRIII if you want a good all around camera. f2.8 full frame equivalent prime lens vs f4, better AF, EVF, video features, better film simulations, and weather resistance are the biggest differences. I think the price premium justified.
For me, I've had a lot of mixed feelings with the X100VI and bought and sold far too many of them but I keep coming back to it since it's just small enough and has just good enough image quality for photo and video....Show more →
Thanks for the response. I can definitely see where the footprint will be smaller than the A7C. I was originally hoping the A7C with G prime would be small enough to fit my carry style, but after giving it a try for almost a year and cycling through many different bags, I'm looking at other options.
I can see how the price difference can be justified. I appreciate the summary.
As the owner of the GRIII and Fuji X100F and V, I strongly agree -- autofocus with kids is the key differentiator.
I strongly prefer my GRIII, but I am a zone focusing street shooter with no kids. I sold my V and kept my GRIII, but for you, I recommend the X100V or VI. I agree with RoamingScott that there's good reason to save money and get the V over the VI.
With the X100V you can rely on the single autofocus wide PDAF to reasonably lock onto your kids as long as they're not being totally and completely insane (and even then, it probably will surprisingly work). The GRIII can do it if you're lucky, but it is much more hit or miss if they are moving. It will be frustrating.
Coming from Sony, neither of these cameras will be nearly as good, but I think the Fuji will be good enough if you have reasonable expectations. Pretty good even.
I believe the VI has some improvements in terms of AF tracking and the like, but RoamingScott probably can speak to that more than I can. I don't believe it is worth the money unless you really want 1 or 1/2 second hand-held low ISO shots in low light (and I believe this sort of photography is overrated, but this is just my opinion.)
But yes, the GRIII is truly pocketable while the X100 is not. That is the sacrifice. GRIV is no where on the horizon, so not worth discussing. Also worry about dust is overrated. All these cameras will get it sooner or later. It's just a fact of life.
This is one of those conunrums (conundra?) that pits a bunch of good choices against one another. There’s not one right answer – except that one that you end up thinking best fits your personal use case. They all have pluses and minuses that you’ll need to balance.
The Ricoh is really small, yet produces pretty good image quality. One of my sons (whose profession involves creating and working with visual images… and who collects and rebuilds old Leicas for street photography) carries one of those with him all the time for stuff that pops up while he is out and about. It is small, basic, and makes good images — good enough that he’s been able to use some in his work… and might be the best choice if portability is high on your list of priorities.
The A7C has some pluses, as you know, in terms of image quality and it keeps you entirely within the Sony ecosystem that you already own. But it isn’t the smallest option. The cross-body bag you mention is probably going to be necessary, while you might actually manage to get the Ricoh into a (big) pocket or smaller bag. (The Fujifilm isn’t really a so-called “pocketable” camera either.)
The Fujifilm options are also interesting. You can either think of them as a midpoint between the other two… or as an option that loses the small size compared to Ricoh or loses lens choices, etc. compared to your Sony. (See what I mean about pluses and minuses?)
If you do go with the X100 series body, you’ll have to consider the pluses and minuses of several different recent models.There are trade-offs. You can get an older model for a bit less cash, and given the pricing on the X100 series that might make a difference. And a one-generation old camera is usually still quite good. With the newest X100vi you get the newer 40MP sensor that is becoming standard on Fujifilm APS-C bodies, IBIS (likely pretty useful for the kind of shooting you suggest you’ll do), some updates to other aspects of the system… and the likelihood that Fujifilm will supply firmware updates a bit further into the future.
Maybe time to either a) follow your heart or b) make a spreadsheet and see how all of the pluses and minuses add up in your particular case.
itzjere wrote:
I appreciate the feedback on the AF performance.. I know the Sony is going to be a high bar to clear, but I figured the Fuji would still be good enough.. Sounds like it is.
And yes, I was hoping to carry this camera in a crossbody bag.. Unfortunately while I can with the A7C and the compact prime, it makes the bag a lot bulkier than I would like, or I have to give up some room as a result.. This is where I think the Fuji or Ricoh can help with being a much 'flatter' camera system.
When I got the X100VI my only concern was how the image would look cropped. I know it has a lot of cropping power but will I like the cropped image for heads and shoulders shots. And I do. This one is mixed lighting with artificial indoor lighting and light coming from the windows.
jjcha wrote:
As the owner of the GRIII and Fuji X100F and V, I strongly agree -- autofocus with kids is the key differentiator.
I strongly prefer my GRIII, but I am a zone focusing street shooter with no kids. I sold my V and kept my GRIII, but for you, I recommend the X100V or VI. I agree with RoamingScott that there's good reason to save money and get the V over the VI.
With the X100V you can rely on the single autofocus wide PDAF to reasonably lock onto your kids as long as they're not being totally and completely insane (and even then, it probably will surprisingly work). The GRIII can do it if you're lucky, but it is much more hit or miss if they are moving. It will be frustrating.
Coming from Sony, neither of these cameras will be nearly as good, but I think the Fuji will be good enough if you have reasonable expectations. Pretty good even.
I believe the VI has some improvements in terms of AF tracking and the like, but RoamingScott probably can speak to that more than I can. I don't believe it is worth the money unless you really want 1 or 1/2 second hand-held low ISO shots in low light (and I believe this sort of photography is overrated, but this is just my opinion.)
But yes, the GRIII is truly pocketable while the X100 is not. That is the sacrifice. GRIV is no where on the horizon, so not worth discussing. Also worry about dust is overrated. All these cameras will get it sooner or later. It's just a fact of life....Show more →
I'm seeing a pattern here with the comments about AF coming the two systems. I appreciate your first hand feedback! I will give the V a good look again and see how much I really value IBIS.
gdanmitchell wrote:
This is one of those conunrums (conundra?) that pits a bunch of good choices against one another. There’s not one right answer – except that one that you end up thinking best fits your personal use case. They all have pluses and minuses that you’ll need to balance.
The Ricoh is really small, yet produces pretty good image quality. One of my sons (whose profession involves creating and working with visual images… and who collects and rebuilds old Leicas for street photography) carries one of those with him all the time for stuff that pops up while he is out and about. It is small, basic, and makes good images — good enough that he’s been able to use some in his work… and might be the best choice if portability is high on your list of priorities.
The A7C has some pluses, as you know, in terms of image quality and it keeps you entirely within the Sony ecosystem that you already own. But it isn’t the smallest option. The cross-body bag you mention is probably going to be necessary, while you might actually manage to get the Ricoh into a (big) pocket or smaller bag. (The Fujifilm isn’t really a so-called “pocketable” camera either.)
The Fujifilm options are also interesting. You can either think of them as a midpoint between the other two… or as an option that loses the small size compared to Ricoh or loses lens choices, etc. compared to your Sony. (See what I mean about pluses and minuses?)
If you do go with the X100 series body, you’ll have to consider the pluses and minuses of several different recent models.There are trade-offs. You can get an older model for a bit less cash, and given the pricing on the X100 series that might make a difference. And a one-generation old camera is usually still quite good. With the newest X100vi you get the newer 40MP sensor that is becoming standard on Fujifilm APS-C bodies, IBIS (likely pretty useful for the kind of shooting you suggest you’ll do), some updates to other aspects of the system… and the likelihood that Fujifilm will supply firmware updates a bit further into the future.
Maybe time to either a) follow your heart or b) make a spreadsheet and see how all of the pluses and minuses add up in your particular case.
Oh trust me.. the spreadsheet has been built, but there are some factors that are hard to quantify and without hands on experience, I think the feedback can really be the tipping point for me here. If I follow my heart, I would love to try a Fujifilm system for the first time. I cannot ignore the cost factor and this is where I am trying to bridge it on paper. I appreciate your feedback!
jojib wrote:
When I got the X100VI my only concern was how the image would look cropped. I know it has a lot of cropping power but will I like the cropped image for heads and shoulders shots. And I do. This one is mixed lighting with artificial indoor lighting and light coming from the windows.
Just want to take a moment and say THANK YOU to everyone who has been commenting in this thread. I'm a bit taken back by the amount of good feedback here and really value everyones time in helping me with this decision!
The AF on the X100VI will be better for sure, and the experience of shooting is a bit more analog. The Ricoh is truly a point and shoot camera with a MASP dial. I don't see one as better than the other, they are just different.
Also note that the GRIII has a wider lens than the X100VI.
Going to say something else about the X100 as I have the original V version. I wouldn't really characterize it as a pocketable camera. It can fit it in a large jacket pocket of my winter parka, but that's about it. But the Ricoh is a truly small camera that can fit in most pockets as well as small fanny packs etc.
Have you ruled out the Sony ZV1 or RX100 or Leica D-Lux?
Having owed several versions of the X100 (F/V/VI) as well as the GRIIIx I can understand the decision. The GR brings such a small size that I could fit into the pocket of my jeans and a good sensor with a little stabilization it seems like a winner, but..... The lack of a viewfinder hurts in bright light, the autofocus isn't as good so people fall back on zone focus, and put things on the camera to improve dust resistance that hurt it's small size. I liked the images I got out of it but lack of screen brightness when turned all the way up in bright sun made it unusable and I sold it.
Of the different X100 series cameras I've owned I like the X100VI the best. The addition of IBIS and larger sensor to make the most of the fixed lens are important to me. If 35mm if your ideal, then a V could matter, but if you want more flexibility than that like I do, the VI is better. It's more like how I used my Leica Q2 and why I liked the Q2 much better than the Q. Right now the VI is my favorite EDC camera even though it's not as small as a GrIIIx.
I’m in the same boat as you - I just got my new X100VI three days ago (it was in stock, so I grabbed one).
I also have an A7IV which I use with the 40mm F2.5 and the 24-50mm F2.8. I realised that I just didn’t want to take the Sony with me because it’s too bulky.
Firstly, the negatives - autofocus feels prehistoric compared to the Sony (or even to my previous DSLRs, actually even to my Canon 1V which is a 25yr old camera).
AF for still subjects - totally fine. AF for moving subjects - don’t expect much, especially wide open.
In terms of AF, there’s speed, accuracy, noise - I’d say it scores poorly on most but accuracy and speed are more important to me. I just wish Fuji would put linear motors in it and fix their focus algorithms, then it would be the perfect EDC. If you have kids, I’d think twice about ability to get them in the moment.
The lens - F2 is soft (check Dustin Abbot’s review), you’d want to be shooting 2.8+ if you want sharp.
The good stuff - it’s a lot more portable, has lots of accessories for it (eg perfect fitting cases etc which is not possible for interchangeable cameras etc).
Generally, I’d keep it as an EDC as there’s nothing better, I couldn’t bring myself buying a GR III which is very old tech by now.
If Sony release a RX1Riii or there’s a GRIV - as long as they have fast and accurate autofocus, I’d switch in a heartbeat.
itzjere wrote:
Thanks for your feedback on the AF! I'm starting to wonder if the form factor is worth it if you can't get usable photos.
If you want a balance of Ricoh's form factor and Fuji's AF, you can also get an X-M5 with the XF27 2.8 pancake. That's smaller than the X100 -- I easily fit it in my jacket pocket.
A bit narrower focal length, but I'd argue it's actually better for family shooting. (And there is supposedly a 23mm pancake coming, if you prefer that).
A few caveats, though -- no IBIS and flimsier build quality, as you'd expect from an entry-level camera.
