Fred Miranda wrote:
Don’t let it go! I love the output from the M240 series, and I believe the build quality and reliability were better back then. I’m currently using the M-D body, which has the same sensor.
Rest assured, I won't. Even if I upgrade in the future to a newer M camera, I will keep my M 240-based cameras. This said, I have never sold any of my M cameras - and I have now six of them all in best working condition.
Who wants to shoot video on a 60mpx slow sensor without IBIS. The M camera system is dedicated to providing superb quality stills while embodying a unique shooting experience. I am happy with that orientation. I have better tools for video creation than an M camera will ever provide.
1bwana1 wrote:
Who wants to shoot video on a 60mpx slow sensor without IBIS. The M camera system is dedicated to providing superb quality stills while embodying a unique shooting experience. I am happy with that orientation. I have better tools for video creation than an M camera will ever provide.
But you can select a lower resolution on the M11's FF sensor and use this to take video without need for image stabilization.
retrofocus wrote:
But you can select a lower resolution on the M11's FF sensor and use this to take video without need for image stabilization.
Still leaves the M cameras with uncompetitive video features. Much better tools available at fractional prices. I would rather Leica spend its resources on the still side of the M system.
1bwana1 wrote:
Still leaves the M cameras with uncompetitive video features. Much better tools available at fractional prices. I would rather Leica spend its resources on the still side of the M system.
Video in digital cameras these days is kind of a freebie - it comes along with LiveView, might require a bit bigger buffer, but the M11 has already a decent one. Leica would only need a firmware update to make it work in the M11. It omits the video button on the camera, but it could be started from the menu. But this is pure theory because Leica will never do it as long as they keep pushing the SL series. The M became a pure still photo camera with the rise of the SL series (and later also Q).
1bwana1 wrote:
Still leaves the M cameras with uncompetitive video features. Much better tools available at fractional prices. I would rather Leica spend its resources on the still side of the M system.
Haha. I agree that there are better tools available, especially considering the slow readout speed of the sensor - but if I'm spending $8K on a new camera body, I will want it to be as well rounded as possible. IBIS isn't necessary for professional video use and when I'm filming with Sony cameras, they are on a gimbal or being moved by a motion control system and IBIS is turned off. My cine cameras (RED & Blackmagic) don't have IBIS either. Another wrinkle concerning professional video needs, I use anamorphic lenses almost exclusively and standard IBIS doesn't play well with anamorphics, as a rule (Panasonic has somewhat solved this problem, but that's about the only exception).
There is no reason that Leica can't engineer the M11-V with both stills and video in mind. If it doesn't have a mechanical rangefinder, it will then be competing against the entire existing spectrum of mirrorless cameras and capabilities will matter - it may be that stills alone won't cut it.
Mar 28, 2025 at 02:16 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
josh-himes wrote:
If it doesn't have a mechanical rangefinder, it will then be competing against the entire existing spectrum of mirrorless cameras and capabilities will matter - it may be that stills alone won't cut it.
I think if the M11-V ends up competing against the entire existing spectrum of mirrorless cameras, then it is pretty much doomed to failure. IMO, the whole point of having it be a variant of the M11 line of cameras is so that it doesn't compete in this way, and instead is another way for Leica M shooters to use their lenses. If the camera were a new model or type of camera I think it could be about competing and expanding the user base of Leica M shooters, but as a variant of Leica M11 cameras I see it as a way to better serve and draw upon the existing user base of Leica M shooters and not expand it. I do not expect it to have video for that reason. I guess we will know soon, but that is my guess.
If the M11-V has video I'm not buying it and seriously consider selling all my Leica gear since it would show they have no clue on their products. The M line should not be for video, that is for the SL line.
Nobody is comparing their M camera to a Sony and expecting the same features.
bcaslis wrote:
If the M11-V has video I'm not buying it and seriously consider selling all my Leica gear since it would show they have no clue on their products. The M line should not be for video, that is for the SL line.
Nobody is comparing their M camera to a Sony and expecting the same features.
I think Leica learned their lesson about including video with the M240 series. Starting with the M10 series, they removed it and returned to simplicity, which I believe should be Leica's priority. Maybe they should take it even further by scaling back some of the options from the feature-packed M11 and focusing on the classic aesthetics and straightforward design they are known for.
thrice wrote:
I have absolutely no issue with a camera having more features if they don't get in the way.
Leica could embed video mode so that it needs a weird button combination to enable, otherwise have it totally hidden from the user.
Selling a whole camera system because it has additional features others might use is borderline hysterical.
I was referring to selling as a statement that if Leica did include those features they do not understand their own product and the majority of their customers, not as a reaction to the features.
A company that doesn't understand their own product is a company in decline that won't last.
thrice wrote:
I have absolutely no issue with a camera having more features if they don't get in the way.
Leica could embed video mode so that it needs a weird button combination to enable, otherwise have it totally hidden from the user.
Selling a whole camera system because it has additional features others might use is borderline hysterical.
I see your point, but what I meant is that more features often mean more menu items, more buttons, and more things to think about before and during shooting. Leica has always been known for creating a pure photography tool that keeps things simple for those who enjoy the process of shooting without distractions. There are plenty of other cameras packed with features including video, and that is clear when navigating the menus of Sony, Fuji, and others..
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think if the M11-V ends up competing against the entire existing spectrum of mirrorless cameras, then it is pretty much doomed to failure. IMO, the whole point of having it be a variant of the M11 line of cameras is so that it doesn't compete in this way, and instead is another way for Leica M shooters to use their lenses. If the camera were a new model or type of camera I think it could be about competing and expanding the user base of Leica M shooters, but as a variant of Leica M11 cameras I see it as a way to better serve and draw upon the existing user base of Leica M shooters and not expand it. I do not expect it to have video for that reason. I guess we will know soon, but that is my guess....Show more →
I agree Steve, but apparently M mount is becoming a 'standard' cine mount now if you consider what some are saying and for example Thypoch/DZO have done by recently releasing their Simera Cine line also in M mount. A native M mount camera that is strong in video would have a market. But I don't think it should necessarily be the M11-V. It can be some other 'video optimized' body with M mount. As you've stated, the M11-V should address providing an excellent manual focus experience for M lens users who want an EVF camera.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I see your point, but what I meant is that more features often mean more menu items, more buttons, and more things to think about before and during shooting. Leica has always been known for creating a pure photography tool that keeps things simple for those who enjoy the process of shooting without distractions. There are plenty of other cameras packed with features including video, and that is clear when navigating the menus of Sony, Fuji, and others..
The video menu function in my Sony A7R is actually very simple. There are many other things where the Sony menu is everything but intuitive, but this is unrelated to the relatively simple video function. Leica had no trouble to implement in any of their digital M cameras - the only reason whey they don't do is is to avoid in-house competition with the more video centric SL series at all cost. Simplification is used as marketing excuse.
I wouldn't make a purchase decision if a Leica M has video or not - as I said I would prefer it as nice-to-have even I rarely would make use of it. I rather have an option and chose not to use it instead of not having the option in the first place. But it is not a must-have for me. More important for me that the M11-V comes in M-mount and not with L-mount - and fortunately this seems to be the case.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I see your point, but what I meant is that more features often mean more menu items, more buttons, and more things to think about before and during shooting. Leica has always been known for creating a pure photography tool that keeps things simple for those who enjoy the process of shooting without distractions. There are plenty of other cameras packed with features including video, and that is clear when navigating the menus of Sony, Fuji, and others..
The video features in the Q and SL cameras add a lot of weight the both the controls and menus. Each control has to be set up independently for still and video. All the video choices have to be included in the menus. Finally, more ports have to be available on the camera body. It is not a simple still or video button. It adds many more requirements to the platform. All that and you would likely still end up with an uncompetitive video implimantation.
From my perspective please just give me the World's best manual focus stills platform. Be the best at what you do Leica.
rscheffler wrote:
I agree Steve, but apparently M mount is becoming a 'standard' cine mount now if you consider what some are saying and for example Thypoch/DZO have done by recently releasing their Simera Cine line also in M mount. A native M mount camera that is strong in video would have a market. But I don't think it should necessarily be the M11-V. It can be some other 'video optimized' body with M mount. As you've stated, the M11-V should address providing an excellent manual focus experience for M lens users who want an EVF camera.
I am a big fan of the Thypoch lenses. However I can't imagine Leica letting a third party Chinese lens maker influencing the development of their classic camera body. The Thypoch lenses work great on the SL bodies already.
Products are engineered inside a more or less fixed budget and to a tight time frame. Feature sets compete with each other, not just in menus and controls but effort to refine them. So we see frequently that resources are thinned for what many feel are core competencies.
Those interested in the new or ancillary features will buy expecting a certain level of performance. Common controls must be carefully developed and QA'd with user acceptance testing. It's hard. And the more functionality, the more that can go wrong. It's great when they pull it off, but simplicity is a virtue. Most of us are hard to please taskmasters.
I do wonder how many images are taken using the Visoflex, as a proportion of total frame counts. Could Leica simply develop a smoother miniaturised EVF inclusion inside the existing RF body?
