EMH2025 wrote:
Travel in big cities anywhere with expensive gear will likely always attract unwanted attention
Not my experience at all. It’s all about how you behave and has nothing to do at all with your gear.
There happens to be strong correlation though between „big fat white guy“ (quoting from above) - who behaves out of sync with his environment and is making himself a potential target - and dudes carrying expensive camera gear.
Not saying you can ever fully blend in somewhere. But you can behave in a way that feels more natural to people and draws less attention, and then it doesn’t matter whether you’re carrying a Leica or a Nikon or whatever.
I travel abroad regularly. I am 6'4" and big and white. Due to injury I am often in my mobility scooter. I never blend in anywhere. I shoot both M11 and Sl3 cameras for street, and street portraits. I am never afraid of being noticed. If I conduct myself in a friendly way I am almost always received well. If I see interesting things developing I stay quietly off the the side and am soon ignored. If I approach for a portrait I am either accepted or rejected. No problem either way.
Because I find the subjects interesting I am frequently in "rougher" areas. Again no big deal. I am comfortable defending myself but have never had to while photographing. Other times yes, and few time to the extreme in both Asia and Africa. If I were to lose my gear, also no big deal. I am fully insured.
I have been in the center of and fully mixed in with at least a half dozen large protests in European cities in the. Last few months. Enjoyed the experience a lot, got interesting pictures. Met a lot of people I disagree with.
I just don't understand why people worry so much about this stuff.
My wife is my facilitator, she is gregarious and will ingratiate herself quite naturally in any company. She opens doors for me that otherwise would be closed. She will often shoot with her phone, drawing the attention and allowing me to get on with my thing, unhindered. Women feel comfortable in her company and men are flattered by her attention.
1bwana1 wrote:
I travel abroad regularly. I am 6'4" and big and white. Due to injury I am often in my mobility scooter. I never blend in anywhere. I shoot both M11 and Sl3 cameras for street, and street portraits. I am never afraid of being noticed. If I conduct myself in a friendly way I am almost always received well. If I see interesting things developing I stay quietly off the the side and am soon ignored. If I approach for a portrait I am either accepted or rejected. No problem either way.
Because I find the subjects interesting I am frequently in "rougher" areas. Again no big deal. I am comfortable defending myself but have never had to while photographing. Other times yes, and few time to the extreme in both Asia and Africa. If I were to lose my gear, also no big deal. I am fully insured.
I have been in the center of and fully mixed in with at least a half dozen large protests in European cities in the. Last few months. Enjoyed the experience a lot, got interesting pictures. Met a lot of people I disagree with.
I just don't understand why people worry so much about this stuff....Show more →
There are so many different scenarios. I've photographed quite a few protests and riots in Europe and NYC, but I'd be wary of photographing protests in areas in the US where gun ownership (legal or illegal) is more prevalent. You can run away from sticks and stones, bullets not so much.
And I've shot quite a bit of street in the US, Europe, Japan and the Middle East, and generally haven't had much trouble. The only time I dealt with violence toward me is actually when I was reporting a radio reportage on the old Times Square. No camera, but a tape recorder...
The most out of place I ever felt was when I wanted to shoot the beach and nightlife scene in a Cypriot party place. It took me 45 minutes to get in the mood and then I went right into the middle of the crowd dancing half-drunk in foam. I had on purpose brought a large pro camera and zoom lens, so I'd be very much present and not creepy. They just went on with their business, to the point of including me in their shared drinking. Got some good shots...but was a little tipsy at the end.
1bwana1 wrote:
I have been in the center of and fully mixed in with at least a half dozen large protests in European cities in the. Last few months. Enjoyed the experience a lot, got interesting pictures. Met a lot of people I disagree with.
I just don't understand why people worry so much about this stuff.
Welcome to Europe - it is meanwhile as opinionated and divided in society as in the US. Sometimes I think it is actually worse in Europe (I can tell from my home country which is Germany).
I have always been avoiding crowds - no matter what the purpose is like protesting or for a festival. Therefore my skills photographing these kind of events are fairly undeveloped. I don't think this will change either. I admire photographers who have the passion to do this - I am not one of them for sure.
There are so many different scenarios. I've photographed quite a few protests and riots in Europe and NYC, but I'd be wary of photographing protests in areas in the US where gun ownership (legal or illegal) is more prevalent. You can run away from sticks and stones, bullets not so much.
I would assume you are from Europe/not used to shooting in the US. Protesting where gun ownership is legal is probably about as safe as it gets. I think media portrays this totally incorrect. Where you see most issues in protests is where police force is hindered due to local politics. Staying out late in club type areas past midnight is probably about as worried as I'd be about random gunslinging....outside of your typical rough neighborhood
rsolti13 wrote:
I would assume you are from Europe/not used to shooting in the US. Protesting where gun ownership is legal is probably about as safe as it gets. I think media portrays this totally incorrect. Where you see most issues in protests is where police force is hindered due to local politics. Staying out late in club type areas past midnight is probably about as worried as I'd be about random gunslinging....outside of your typical rough neighborhood
I am from Europe but lived in the US for about 30 years. To me, the presence of guns is always a game changer. I remember shooting riots in Holland a long time ago and a cop felt threatened and pulled his gun. That completely changed the atmosphere for a brief moment, until he got into a van and drove off.
Riots in Europe can be bad, but they generally don’t include guns and don’t lead to shooting victims. That’s just not true in the US, where riots more often lead to looting and more severe crimes. And personally I don’t trust anyone with a gun in a tense situation, especially not someone who has never received any training on how to deal with that kind of stress.
Hence, I stayed away from protests that were likely to turn violent in the US but generally don’t stay away from any protests in Europe. I’m actually more cautious about visiting Christmas markets and the like here and always check if the police has blocked vehicle access to a crowded place.
johnvanr wrote:
I’m actually more cautious about visiting Christmas markets and the like here and always check if the police has blocked vehicle access to a crowded place.
+1. Yes the new "Stadtbild" for Christmas markets.
1bwana1 wrote:
I travel abroad regularly. I am 6'4" and big and white. Due to injury I am often in my mobility scooter. I never blend in anywhere. I shoot both M11 and Sl3 cameras for street, and street portraits. I am never afraid of being noticed. If I conduct myself in a friendly way I am almost always received well. If I see interesting things developing I stay quietly off the the side and am soon ignored. If I approach for a portrait I am either accepted or rejected. No problem either way.
Because I find the subjects interesting I am frequently in "rougher" areas. Again no big deal. I am comfortable defending myself but have never had to while photographing. Other times yes, and few time to the extreme in both Asia and Africa. If I were to lose my gear, also no big deal. I am fully insured.
I have been in the center of and fully mixed in with at least a half dozen large protests in European cities in the. Last few months. Enjoyed the experience a lot, got interesting pictures. Met a lot of people I disagree with.
I just don't understand why people worry so much about this stuff....Show more →
This is a better explanation of how I photograph when I travel than I could write. Be friendly. Show some respect. Shoot like crazy. I’ve never had any significant issues. I think my secret to not being noticed is to be noticed and wait. Plus I don’t want to just witness interesting stuff. I want to experience it.
One thing I have noticed in. recent years. Especially in developing countries. If/when we are noticed shooting more often than not we are asked for selfies. with the locals. K, especially. She is tall for a woman (5’9” 1/2 ish) and often towers over the locals is Asia etc. During Holi in Varanassi last year I reckon we did over 100 selfies with locals. We took photos of them in exchange for photos with us was kind of the vibe. We never refused.
johnvanr wrote:
I am from Europe but lived in the US for about 30 years. To me, the presence of guns is always a game changer. I remember shooting riots in Holland a long time ago and a cop felt threatened and pulled his gun. That completely changed the atmosphere for a brief moment, until he got into a van and drove off.
Riots in Europe can be bad, but they generally don’t include guns and don’t lead to shooting victims. That’s just not true in the US, where riots more often lead to looting and more severe crimes. And personally I don’t trust anyone with a gun in a tense situation, especially not someone who has never received any training on how to deal with that kind of stress.
Hence, I stayed away from protests that were likely to turn violent in the US but generally don’t stay away from any protests in Europe. I’m actually more cautious about visiting Christmas markets and the like here and always check if the police has blocked vehicle access to a crowded place. ...Show more →
I can understand the hesitation, but in the US it's actually very rare for protests to result in violence. We actually have very few "riots" relative to the rest of the world (they are quite common in some Asian countries). On the topic of guns, I am a retired military officer, had lots of firearms training, and have a carry permit. BUT, I rarely carry one because there is risk and liability when you do so and you better be prepared to use it if you carry it. I don't ever want to shoot anyone, no matter how bad they are. It's best to avoid rather than engage.
crf59 wrote:
I can understand the hesitation, but in the US it's actually very rare for protests to result in violence. We actually have very few "riots" relative to the rest of the world (they are quite common in some Asian countries). On the topic of guns, I am a retired military officer, had lots of firearms training, and have a carry permit. BUT, I rarely carry one because there is risk and liability when you do so and you better be prepared to use it if you carry it. I don't ever want to shoot anyone, no matter how bad they are. It's best to avoid rather than engage....Show more →
Carrying weapons must be carefully considered. There are times when they are lifesaver and times when they will get you killed.
When in Africa and there are multiple sides fighting and you are not associated with any of them it is often best not to carry. If you are carrying and any of the sides finds you with weapons, since they know you are not with them they will assume you are with one of the other sides. Safer for them to just get rid of you.
In America where carrying is common and violence is mostly random I prefer to carry. In many places such an option just isn't available.
1bwana1 wrote:
In America where carrying is common and violence is mostly random I prefer to carry. In many places such an option just isn't available.
Sure and statistics show this increases the risk of you being shot or people around you being shot.
But, hey, if owning a gun in the country where the risk of being shot is 20 times higher than in Europe make you feel safer because so many people have one, go for it
If Leica put some more effort into the design, it wouldn't look so weird - e.g. Leica D-Lux 8 and Q3s look normal by moving the red dot to the top corner but seems like they took the very minimal step possible
pmeheut wrote:
Sure and statistics show this increases the risk of you being shot or people around you being shot.
But, hey, if owning a gun in the country where the risk of being shot is 20 times higher than in Europe make you feel safer because so many people have one, go for it
I am comfortable both ways. I currently live in Europe so experience both systems. The real reason for the Second amendment in the US constitution is not personal protection. It is restraint of Government. We could use some of that here...
1bwana1 wrote:
The real reason for the Second amendment in the US constitution is not personal protection. It is restraint of Government. We could use some of that here...
Sure because right now, democracy is working so well in the US.
The real reason for the Second amendment is that is was written more than two centuries ago by people who were afraid of George III.
Nowadays, if the US government wants to abuse power, it just needs to do so: the majority of the population voted for it.
And if said government want to suppress an insurrection, we've seen in other countries what happens: the insurgents have guns, the government has tanks, planes, bombs, drones, Internet control, media control. The founding fathers never thought of that.
