As a Leica M digital enjoyer, I couldn't be more let down by this announcement. I expected M11 sensor specs with a much better EVF (high refresh rates) and a revolutionary focusing system, but instead we got:
- 60 fps (not even 120 fps!) refresh rate
- NO focusing aide other than punch in and focus peaking. I was expecting _at least_ Nikon ZF with that face/eye detection when doing punch in or even the rumored emulated RF patch. so basically just like any other camera out there except i would wager it's worse because they opted for that old Maestro III instead of the newer Maestro IV. I have the SL2 with use same Maestro III processor...and while the experience isn't horrendous, I do not enjoy manual focusing on that camera with the M lenses.
- thank goodness they still have that lens wheel relic from the rangefinder mount so it can auto punch in when you move the lens helicoid. /s
- still with a 64g internal when storage prices has come down significantly?
it would have been OK if they wanted SL3 money for it. but 9K USD? are they nuts?! WHO IS THIS CAMERA FOR?
Oh man. I so hoped before the latest rumors and the actual announcement, that this was going to basically be a Q3 type with an M Mount. Updated 9.x mp 120hz elec viewfinder, smaller size, decent battery life, built in and custom film simulations, decent on board storage, better focus assist than just peaking, updated processor, and of course IBIS. But nada. I would of really tried to justify even a closer to $10k price for such a leap. My M10 and M2 will keep plugging along for a while longer it seems ..... Im sure it's nice and will fit for many users but to me it feels like they went into the existing tech closet and made something new with the same old stuff assembled a little different way ....
barrylaw74 wrote:
Oh man. I so hoped before the latest rumors and the actual announcement, that this was going to basically be a Q3 type with an M Mount. Updated 9.x mp 120hz elec viewfinder, smaller size, decent battery life, built in and custom film simulations, decent on board storage, better focus assist than just peaking, updated processor, and of course IBIS. But nada. I would of really tried to justify even a closer to $10k price for such a leap. My M10 and M2 will keep plugging along for a while longer it seems ..... Im sure it's nice and will fit for many users but to me it feels like they went into the existing tech closet and made something new with the same old stuff assembled a little different way .......Show more →
if that's what you wanted, check out the thread about a techart adapter on a kolari sensor modified Sony A7CR. It's as close as you can currently get to an M lens interchangeable Q3.
dalegaspi wrote:
As a Leica M digital enjoyer, I couldn't be more let down by this announcement. I expected M11 sensor specs with a much better EVF (high refresh rates) and a revolutionary focusing system, but instead we got:
- 60 fps (not even 120 fps!) refresh rate
- NO focusing aide other than punch in and focus peaking. I was expecting _at least_ Nikon ZF with that face/eye detection when doing punch in or even the rumored emulated RF patch. so basically just like any other camera out there except i would wager it's worse because they opted for that old Maestro III instead of the newer Maestro IV. I have the SL2 with use same Maestro III processor...and while the experience isn't horrendous, I do not enjoy manual focusing on that camera with the M lenses.
- thank goodness they still have that lens wheel relic from the rangefinder mount so it can auto punch in when you move the lens helicoid. /s
- still with a 64g internal when storage prices has come down significantly?
it would have been OK if they wanted SL3 money for it. but 9K USD? are they nuts?! WHO IS THIS CAMERA FOR?
barrylaw74 wrote:
Oh man. I so hoped before the latest rumors and the actual announcement, that this was going to basically be a Q3 type with an M Mount. Updated 9.x mp 120hz elec viewfinder, smaller size, decent battery life, built in and custom film simulations, decent on board storage, better focus assist than just peaking, updated processor, and of course IBIS. But nada. I would of really tried to justify even a closer to $10k price for such a leap. My M10 and M2 will keep plugging along for a while longer it seems ..... Im sure it's nice and will fit for many users but to me it feels like they went into the existing tech closet and made something new with the same old stuff assembled a little different way .......Show more →
While I can appreciate what they were trying to do with the EV1, the operational execution just feels pretty lackluster. Nearly every major camera brand has already achieved what this camera is doing, and did it better. The only real thing setting it apart is the M mount, and that alone isn’t enough to justify its shortcomings. By releasing the EV1, they’ve essentially stepped into the ring with the big dogs in the camera world… but they’re not keeping up. Honestly, the only saving grace here is pairing the body with compact Leica lenses, that’s where some of the magic still comes through.
YouTube is full of EV1 based videos all popping up at once. You quickly notice why - Leica invited many Leica-enthusiast YouTubers to an event in Europe (maybe Italy) weeks before the launch to spend a few days with the EV1. Likely they had to sign an agreement with Leica not to post anything before the official launch today. I watched a few, and the YouTubers reiterate what is often said here with a more friendly tone regarding Leica (obviously they don't want to burn bridges since it is part of their business to get the new Leica stuff to test etc).
retrofocus wrote:
YouTube is full of EV1 based videos all popping up at once. You quickly notice why - Leica invited many Leica-enthusiast YouTubers to an event in Europe (maybe Italy) weeks before the launch to spend a few days with the EV1. Likely they had to sign an agreement with Leica not to post anything before the official launch today. I watched a few, and the YouTubers reiterate what is often said here with a more friendly tone regarding Leica (obviously they don't want to burn bridges since it is part of their business to get the new Leica stuff to test etc). ...Show more →
stgrove wrote:
As usual. you got to the points well.
I just weighed my X2Dii+38V=1264 grams. M11P+24/1.4+Viso2=1205 grams.
With all the differences between these 2 cameras, would you take shooting the X2Dii in that same bar over the EV1?
Hard to say at this point. For me probably. As you know the Hasselblad just *works* for me. It's completely natural. OTOH, I have enjoyed my M11-P safari a lot recently as well and a 3-4 lens kit is much much smaller. I also have a 135 APO stashed away that would work really well on the EV1. The 'blad has IBIS and the flippy screen....
I liked the EV1 much more than I thought I might. I really think if you like the M but can't deal with the RF due to older eyes etc, then it's still a great experience. Same if you shoot 75mm and longer a lot. I could see myself hiking up a hill with an EV1 and a small tripod over a larger Hasselblad kit.
Also, it didn't feel like a Q to me. It still felt like an M, sort of. It's definitely not a Q replacement. It's very much an M system expansion. As much as I would have liked the focus features to be better, I think I'll be just fine with how it is. In MF it's as good as the X2D2 with a V lens. I would really like some more time with the EV1 though. It has that premium heft and dense feel I love in a camera.
My main system will remain the Hasselblad. No doubt. I'm loving the 35-100 and really only carrying the 55V prime, currently. Maybe the EV1 in a small 3-4 prime lens kit could be a smaller carry? Time will tell. It's receiving a hell of a bagging from many who've not used it or even seen it or had expectations that weren't met. But at the event I wasn't the only one who came away liking a bit more than they thought.
Oz only got 8 cameras, apparently, so I don't know if I'm allocated one in the first batch yet.
Not first time, but I have never seen popping up so many videos at the same time there
Yes embargo sounds right. They all play the game to be in good standing with the brand . The more interesting videos will come out in a few weeks or months after firmware update fixes a few things like startup time, and when the reviewer has spent more time with the camera and a set of different lenses. Mostly then done by lesser known YouTubers who borrow or rent the camera for a while to test it.
I've got to have what the Leica product people are smoking. Seriously.
It's baffling to me that after all the rumors and the waiting, we have this. At 9k USD...this is Leica basically telling us that they're aiming for a high profit margin for this camera...because this has the most low-effort R&D invested ever. Some more additional thoughts:
- Maestro III. my god, this is the most annoying one. The SL3/Q3 series has the Maestro IV. I bet they could have put a Maestro IV in there but the 50 cent difference in cost would eat into the potential profit. :-/
- 60fps EVF refresh rate. I cannot get over this one. The much older camera the SL2 with the same processor manage to get to 120fps. How? It felt like Leica deliberately gimped this one because...reasons.
- and let me guess: there's still no EFCS...because why add this now?
- and finally, the startup time...same as the M11 (according to PetaPixel preview). As a software engineer by trade, this somewhat angers me. So with the time between the M11 and this one NOBODY was able to optimize the firmware? Listen, Leica people... M11 startup time is _tolerable_ because since it has an optical VF, you can focus while it takes its sweet time to boot up. This thing? cool, now I actually HAVE to wait for it to boot up so i can use it. You don't need that "decisive moment" AMIRITE?! Henri is spinning in his grave at a much higher refresh rate than the EV1's EVF probably.
I hope this one fails so Leica would be forced to put out a next version that would be at least worth the money they're asking for. It probably would still sell, though.
dalegaspi wrote:
It's baffling to me that after all the rumors and the waiting, we have this. At 9k USD...this is Leica basically telling us that they're aiming for a high profit margin for this camera...because this has the most low-effort R&D invested ever.
Leica has always been a conservative company. So, this appears to be a check on how much market demand there is while incurring minimal development costs.
I've said repeatedly, this is not what the market wants. An L mount Q that provides autofocus while still providing sensor compatibility with M lenses via adapter would be a much more viable offering. It would possibly take some sales from the fixed lens Q line, but I dont see Fuji suffering by offering small rangefinder-style bodies along side their X-100.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The lack of IBIS isn't really an issue when focusing through the viewfinder. Leica has cleverly stabilized the M11's EVF/LCD, making manual focusing easier (stable) even without sensor-based IBIS. It's a feature many people don't realize, but it's one of the M11's great little advantages.
It's very likely the new M EV1 will include this as well.
As a Leica M digital enjoyer, I couldn't be more let down by this announcement. I expected M11 sensor specs with a much better EVF (high refresh rates) and a revolutionary focusing system, but instead we got:
- 60 fps (not even 120 fps!) refresh rate
- NO focusing aide other than punch in and focus peaking. I was expecting _at least_ Nikon ZF with that face/eye detection when doing punch in or even the rumored emulated RF patch. so basically just like any other camera out there except i would wager it's worse because they opted for that old Maestro III instead of the newer Maestro IV. I have the SL2 with use same Maestro III processor...and while the experience isn't horrendous, I do not enjoy manual focusing on that camera with the M lenses.
- thank goodness they still have that lens wheel relic from the rangefinder mount so it can auto punch in when you move the lens helicoid. /s
- still with a 64g internal when storage prices has come down significantly?
it would have been OK if they wanted SL3 money for it. but 9K USD? are they nuts?! WHO IS THIS CAMERA FOR?
rant ends.
You nailed it
This is very true
Same as M11p minus all rangefinder focusing system without adding any upgrade item
Same as Q minus Q Summilux lens plus slightly better body same as M11p
when i asked "who is this camera for?". i was actually asking a rhetorical question.
obviously the target are Leica RF users who finds it hard to focus with RF with their poor eyesight. I am one of those users and honestly i am faster with the RF than fidgeting with punch in focus or focus highlights. the latter is also not an enjoyable experience...it just gets the job done.
man, Leica could have _really_ listened to their users. they could have implemented a really unique focusing mechanism that fits the product. that could have really justified its existence for me.
and again i could be somewhat ok with it...if they priced accordingly. but they didn't. holy heck the arrogance of Leica.
This is crazy to me. I am happy to use M lenses on any SL body that of course, uses the same focus peaking & punch in to check focus. Why would I pay for a more expensive body where the SL can achieve 98% of that. it cannot be just "it's a smaller body" .
"Another target user group is our Leica SL-users who would like a second body and the Leica M experience. An interesting observation for us is that the most popular lenses in our portfolio are 28mm, 35mm and 50mm. Leica M EV1 will allow users to boldly take advantage of lenses of varying focal lengths, and they can be assured that those lenses will operate effectively with this new camera, thereby giving them the confidence to step outside their comfort zone."
retrofocus wrote:
It would make sense in theory - and it could happen if the SL was high in demand and selling well - which is not the case. Leica committed to the L-mount in the past, and it will hold this up until it can no longer sustain. An autofocus M-size & style camera with AF capability and using smaller lenses would definitely bite deeply into the SL sales. Therefore it won't be happening.
You can see already just by reading this thread and others how protective Leica was with the EV1 to avoid any kind of in-house competition with other cameras (M, Q, SL). It is very obvious. ...Show more →
I can't predict what would cut into sales of another camera. If the SL doesn't sell well, perhaps that's because it is so big, and the lenses are way too big.
For me, an autofocus M-size & style camera with its own line of small AF lenses would fit perfectly into the Leica system by combining elements that already exist into something new and attractive. The only challenge would be a new system of small AF lenses, but only a few would be needed to start, perhaps 28, 35 and 50 to start, and perhaps all f/2 to keep them small.
Here are the elements that already exist:
1) Leica already makes M-size & style cameras, but not with autofocus;
2) Leica already makes full-frame autofocus cameras, but not with M-size & style;
3) Leica already makes autofocus lenses, but they are huge and wildly expensive;
4) Leica already makes an autofocus M-size & style camera (Q3 / Q3 43) with its smallish lens, but not with interchangeable lenses.
The one thing they don't make is the logical combination of attractive Leica elements:
5) An M-size & style camera with its own small autofocus interchangeable lens line: perfect for people who appreciate the M size & style, but also value autofocus and interchangeable lenses.
It is so logical that I predict it will happen ... perhaps in 20 or so years.
Edited to add: David Imel's video (worth watching) suggests that the Q3 is Leica's "biggest seller" and that the SL3 is also in "high demand" ...
