1bwana1 wrote:
Both focus peaking and magnification are on the EV-1.
Perhaps there is some innovation. Maybe focus peaking will actually be accurate, even with fast lenses. That would be a major advance in manual focusing technology.
As expected a bit underwhelming... overpriced and bare bones (no IBIS, no focus confirmation). The only thing it has going for it is the weight (484g with battery).
So Leica actually released an EVF based M that is more difficult to quickly focus than the classic rangefinder...and no better (and possibly worse ala Nikon) than other mirrorless options? That makes no sense. It's somewhat shocking that there is not a clever, novel focusing aid available. Maybe this cameras sole purpose is to sell more rangefinder M's - or S3's.
johnvanr wrote:
Looks like a big no for me. Neither focus peaking nor zooming in are what I consider improvements over a rangefinder. Maybe that’s the point Leica is trying to make. Why else did they not introduce a new focus technology. Now their marketing talk sounds empty and seems aimed at people who have never experienced an EVF. And featuring Meyerowitz, who famously lauded the rangefinder as the best solution ever, is a misstep in my book.
From my perspective, some Nikon bodies with adapter offer the best focus experience for M lenses, though of course, they don’t offer the best sensor coverage. This Leica could have offered both, but doesn’t. ...Show more →
I'm actually very skeptical Leica had or has the know-how to implement focus aids like the Nikon Zf has. If they did, they'd have done it and put it in this camera. Right now I'd rather buy a used M11 and separate evf and I get the best of all worlds.
This camera looks so odd without the viewfinder window and the logo in the middle just leaves the left side of the camera so bare.
I'd say this was a $6k camera at most, so the pricing is way off for me, though it does protect the M line (the actualt M rangefinder line) and the "prestige" that comes with it at $9k. But to say different strokes for different folks when its Leica vs other brands, value proposition is different for everyone, etc...you strip away the thing that makes Ms unique and don't offer anything extra...that's hard to justify. At least with a traditional M you get a unique shooting experience. If this experiment tanks, I feel for the people at Leica that stuck their necks out to push for this product to be produced. It's a tough crowd to please the more purist crowd, you are constrained by Leica pricing strategy and also constrained by Leica heritage.
retrofocus wrote:
How is the manual focus done in the EV1 if not via focus peaking nor magnification?
WYSIWYG
Personally, I like to have a quick "punch in" for magnification, when I'm not zone focusing (critical focus work). The frame selector switch as a tactile magnification might be a nice interface. Left hand operation means I don't have to "adjust" my right hand purchase / grip ... might be a really nice (subtle) interface that folks have to experience to appreciate. We'll see / time will tell.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
So Leica actually released an EVF based M that is more difficult to quickly focus than the classic rangefinder...and no better (and possibly worse ala Nikon) than other mirrorless options? That makes no sense. It's somewhat shocking that there is not a clever, novel focusing aid available. Maybe this cameras sole purpose is to sell more rangefinder M's - or S3's.
The market requested WYSIWYG ... Leica responded.
That is a different matter from the market requesting a faster focusing experience than RF. The premise that the WYSIWYG would inherently be faster than RF, may not be the appropriate premise to the market request. Sure, folks would like to have both, but sometimes things are more quid pro quo than we'd like for them to be.
RustyBug wrote:
The market requested WYSIWYG ... Leica responded.
That is a different matter from the market requesting a faster focusing experience than RF. The premise that the WYSIWYG would inherently be faster than RF, may not be the appropriate premise to the market request. Sure, folks would like to have both, but sometimes things are more quid pro quo than we'd like for them to be.
I think the market expected - shown via many Leica users in this thread - a similarly quick focus experience to that of the rangefinder as this quickness is one of the major factors that makes an M an M. It has traditionally separated the rangefinder experience from that of the SLR in the hands of an experienced user.
I'm really trying to stay positive, but even after all the buildup, this still feels a bit like an April Fools joke... The missing viewfinder is hard to ignore, especially since we're so used to that classic design. Replacing it with a blank space and leaning on outdated focusing tools just feels lazy and uninspired. And with the ISO dial gone too, maybe they just assumed most users would stick to auto anyway.
Leica: "You Belong Here."
I'm definitely not the target audience that "belongs" to this. Still, I hope it finds its audience and does well for Leica.
For me it is not a price gripe. It is a question whether this new EV-1 could potentially replace or add value to my M11-D, and the answer is a hard no. I was optimistically looking for that "wow" factor, a cutting edge new way of focusing.
Leica's marketing slogan "You belong" falls flat for me, and I am a marketing guy.
Now, I am sure this camera will find many homes, but I am going to call it like I see it, a Q with interchangeable lenses.
It's going to be a tough sell. A S9 with a M-adapter gives most of the same features other than the resolution, same thing for a Zf...granted no red dot though.
ZdevilH1 wrote:
but I am going to call it like I see it, a Q with interchangeable lenses.
A Q is smaller, has AF, IBIS. I would buy one with interchangeable lenses.
But like many others here, I'm so disappointed: no innovation at all, no added value and more expansive than a SL? What a joke.
This is all very predictable from the outside looking in. That anyone can defend this camera, at this price, in this market, with this level of competition is baffling.
"There are lots of things which could be included in such a camera in the future, the obvious thing being some form of focus confirmation. The technology certainly exists for this, but how to do it is much more interesting and complicated. Perhaps a rectangular section like the existing rangefinder, or maybe a confirmation light, or arrows."
No mention of including IBIS in the future though. My guess is that is a hard no till they can find a way to also integrate it in the rangefinder M.
wolfloid wrote:
Yep, no mention of any inventive focusing aids. What a missed opportunity and a massive let down. Peaking is innacurate and magnification is too slow, and available on any other mirrorless camera. Plus it is said to be slow to start up, and unlike the rangefinder, it is not possible to focus and frame before the camera is on. You just have to wait 4 seconds before you can do anything! My Sony A7rIV does it in just under two. A big disappointment already.
Lack of innovation or vision at Leica is frustrating.
This is my takeaway too. It's a pretty lazy release. The manual focusing on the Nikon with subject detection aids is extremely good! It avoids the whole zoom in and peaking song and dance. Did they at least allow a histogram in the EVF with this? over exposure Blinkies?
Gas always hits me hard...love technology and all the new things it brings. Whenever a new toy is out, I almost LOOK for ways to justify spending on advancements/new technologies. That being said, zero desire on this one. Marked safe from gas today.
In all seriousness, this looks to be pushed towards getting non M users over to try and use the M system, like a bridge from current Sony/Nikon/etc offerings and even more of a push from current Q owners. On the site for the M EV1, it clearly states in bold letters: "The Easiest Way to Enter the Legendary M-System". This camera is not geared towards current M users....or anyone frequenting an alternative gear forum for that matter
Not to be too pessimistic, but it may be that Leica reasoned that if they included easy focus aides to allow the EV1 to operate as an easy replacement to a traditional M, they might risk sales of the more expensive rangefinder model.
It was a wasted opportunity to introduce M+ lenses for 21st century with electronic aperture control and data exchange.
Since my EDC right now is mostly GFX and Z8, maybe HB is a compact solution for me, not Leica It would actually add useful features to photography experience.
It is easy to stay very positive with this release in that Leica has inoculated my bank account from ill advised withdrawals. Unfortunately, Hasselblad wasn’t equally considerate.
