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Leica M EV1

  
 
johnvanr
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p.26 #1 · Leica M EV1


1bwana1 wrote:
I guess we will disagree on this. A fellow member decided to contribute something to the conversation that included AI content that was properly attributed. He was intimidated enough to delete the post. I was happy to read what he had added. I guess my bias is to welcome pretty much all contributions from fellow members that contribute to the discussion.


My problem with AI in forums is three-fold:

- how do we know it’s a person and not AI commenting?
- why would we ever want to engage with a machine unless that machine provides insight a person would not be able to provide?
- and most importantly, in this case, going to AI for a rumor just adds to the potential misinformation since this kind of AI doesn’t do much more than tapping in other rumor sources and cannot provide reliable information. It’s just going around in circles, which is a waste of time.



Sep 29, 2025 at 07:38 AM
1bwana1
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p.26 #2 · Leica M EV1


johnvanr wrote:
My problem with AI in forums is three-fold:

- how do we know it’s a person and not AI commenting?
- why would we ever want to engage with a machine unless that machine provides insight a person would not be able to provide?
- and most importantly, in this case, going to AI for a rumor just adds to the potential misinformation since this kind of AI doesn’t do much more than tapping in other rumor sources and cannot provide reliable information. It’s just going around in circles, which is a waste of time.


I agree with everything you say when it comes to straight AI posting in forums such as this. However, AI being quoted and posted with proper attribution poses no such problems. Because the source is known everyone can judge for themselves the validity and meaningfulness of the information.




Sep 29, 2025 at 07:46 AM
bwcolor
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p.26 #3 · Leica M EV1


johnvanr wrote:
My problem with AI in forums is three-fold:

- how do we know it’s a person and not AI commenting?
- why would we ever want to engage with a machine unless that machine provides insight a person would not be able to provide?
- and most importantly, in this case, going to AI for a rumor just adds to the potential misinformation since this kind of AI doesn’t do much more than tapping in other rumor sources and cannot provide reliable information. It’s just going around in circles, which is a waste of time.


First, as time passes it will be difficult to distinguish person, or AI, but in this case I’ve been on and posted here for many years and I predate AI by a good number of decades. The post not only states that it is AI, but specifies the agent.

Second, the machine that you reference is just a very powerful engine that can assemble information from many more sources than any of us would have time to search for. So, in this case, I thought and still think that this particular AI, Grok4, is a great source, but not 100% reliable resource. It does make errors and can interpret something as fact that is simply conjecture, but that is what we do on this forum on a daily basis. I found the results to be a most likely scenario and I believe, based on what I’ve seen, we are going to get a system that is marketable to a different segment of the population with standard EVF features in a small format manual focus system that includes current video features from much larger Leica systems.

Your last point is a bit entertaining. This whole thread is full of potential misinformation. Many wild and crazy suggestions have been made without any consideration of the tremendous drain on Leica’s resources that such features would demand, whereas the AI listed features is in line with what I’ve seen Leica do for years and that would involve slow iterations of technologies and components. I would love to see a breakthrough viewing system that modernizes what I had in the X100, but that, likely, wouldn’t make sense to the folks that manage R&D budgets at Leica.

This board is far more tolerant of diverse opinion than over at a European Leica board where censorship is not only tolerated, but practiced regularly. I removed my post to protect members from deciding for themselves if such a post helped to better center the discussion around what is likely vs what we could imagine. That is what I saw in this AI answer to my query.

It was also suggested that what I did was simply me being lazy. Ok, fair enough, but I thought it was me being curious as to what might be found that I wasn’t aware of. Could we agree that should I have posted a YouTube link where the YouTuber was providing their opinion would also be lazy? Maybe, but then again, I appreciate the resource that someone found valuable and I can then either watch it, or not and form my own opinion as to the value of the video.



Sep 29, 2025 at 09:16 AM
1bwana1
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p.26 #4 · Leica M EV1




bwcolor wrote:
First, as time passes it will be difficult to distinguish person, or AI, but in this case I’ve been on and posted here for many years and I predate AI by a good number of decades. The post not only states that it is AI, but specifies the agent.

Second, the machine that you reference is just a very powerful engine that can assemble information from many more sources than any of us would have time to search for. So, in this case, I thought and still think that this particular AI, Grok4, is a great source, but not 100% reliable
...Show more

Your original post along with this one is both reasonable and contributes to this discussion and FM in general. Censorship and pressure to censor is not conducive to open and meaningful discussion. Sorry you felt the need to delete your original post.



Sep 29, 2025 at 09:57 AM
wolfloid
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p.26 #5 · Leica M EV1


I think the general principle of avoiding AI speculation posted to the site is a very good one. It is not that there is anything wrong with AI - which can be great - but that we can all use it if we are interested. Let’s keep the forum for human use, with all our biases, fallibilities, individual wants, desires and experience, and occasional flashes of insight.


Sep 29, 2025 at 10:58 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.26 #6 · Leica M EV1


bwcolor wrote:
First, as time passes it will be difficult to distinguish person, or AI, but in this case I’ve been on and posted here for many years and I predate AI by a good number of decades. The post not only states that it is AI, but specifies the agent.

Second, the machine that you reference is just a very powerful engine that can assemble information from many more sources than any of us would have time to search for. So, in this case, I thought and still think that this particular AI, Grok4, is a great source, but not 100% reliable
...Show more

I think it is fine you posted from AI. You identified the agent (in this case Grok4) and what it said. I don't think what the Grok4 said, however, is a likely projection of what the camera will be. I think it is better understood as a summary of the conjectures people have made about the camera and since almost nobody who actually knows anything is making any conjectures I don't believe there is any reason to think that a summary of conjectures made without any actual knowledge is going to get anywhere close to what the camera will actually be. So, AI can tell us what people are guessing the camera is going to be, but I don't think there is any reason to think that is what the camera will actually be.



Sep 29, 2025 at 11:20 AM
bwcolor
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p.26 #7 · Leica M EV1


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think it is fine you posted from AI. You identified the agent (in this case Grok4) and what it said. I don't think what the Grok4 said, however, is a likely projection of what the camera will be. I think it is better understood as a summary of the conjectures people have made about the camera and since almost nobody who actually knows anything is making any conjectures I don't believe there is any reason to think that a summary of conjectures made without any actual knowledge is going to get anywhere close to what the camera will
...Show more

Sounds like a reasonable response. We will see what Leica has in mind.



Sep 29, 2025 at 12:34 PM
johnvanr
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p.26 #8 · Leica M EV1


bwcolor wrote:
First, as time passes it will be difficult to distinguish person, or AI, but in this case I’ve been on and posted here for many years and I predate AI by a good number of decades. The post not only states that it is AI, but specifies the agent.

Second, the machine that you reference is just a very powerful engine that can assemble information from many more sources than any of us would have time to search for. So, in this case, I thought and still think that this particular AI, Grok4, is a great source, but not 100% reliable
...Show more

I appreciate you made it clear it was AI and it was your intent to add a summary of the findings so far.

This kind of what people call AI, though, is merely a tool that scoops up information already published without any understanding of the value or correctness of that information. Maybe people learned something new, but I didn’t. Even then, since all the information that’s public is a rumor, it doesn’t add value. It just seems to validate the rumors. Most likely, AI is also adding our comments to its data and, as we know, our comments aren’t based on facts.

So, nothing against you. And nothing against the right use of AI. But these large language models just allow us to tap into an enormous amount of stuff without the model being able to distinguish between what’s right and what’s wrong. I’ve done AI searches on stuff I know something about and in some cases it perpetuates false information. Garbage in, garbage out still applies and there is not enough focus on the validity of the information that goes in.

Overall, I find it ironic that we increasingly seem to rely on these new models while we all probably have encountered issues with faulty GPS instructions, even after that technology has now been around for decades.

I’m fine with humans commenting on what they expect and want, but at least I know they’re just guessing.



Sep 29, 2025 at 01:21 PM
rscheffler
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p.26 #9 · Leica M EV1


johnvanr wrote:
Overall, I find it ironic that we increasingly seem to rely on these new models while we all probably have encountered issues with faulty GPS instructions, even after that technology has now been around for decades.


Because it's faster than traditional web searches. Of course it doesn't mean it's correct.

For example, I recently searched on AI: what cameras offer quad pixel AF?

It correctly stated Olympus/OM. But also Canon R1 and R5II, which was incorrect. It was probably incorrect because the early info/discussions/rumors of the R1 incorrectly stated it had quad-pixel AF. People apparently confused QPAF with Canon's description of cross-type AF, which is technically different but in the end does the same thing. That AI also included the R5II was totally incorrect. It does not even have Canon's cross-type AF capability. Point being, internet search results, whether AI or not, need to be verified. AI will link to the sources it used and from there the user can determine if the information was correct or not.

Before making my AI inquiry, I did a traditional web search and got a ton of incorrect and irrelevant results that diluted the valid information. Therefore it's no surprise that the AI result was just a distilled summary of my web search results. But it was faster and helped me figure out why the invalid results were so prevalent.


fjablo wrote:
Their new solution will just be software-based and could be copied relatively easily by other cameras as long as they have on-sensor phase detection. How about a new Sigma BF with that kind of assist tool? Or a Sony A7C? Or a rangefinder-styled Nikon Zs?


I'm not familiar with Nikon or Sony but this already exists from Canon as a manual focus assist feature. It's just not designed to emulate the rangefinder patch experience. But that should be possible through software design. Canikony are not systems aimed at manual focus photographers, therefore it's somewhat of an afterthought and IMO somewhat unsurprising that more effort hasn't already been applied by these brands to refine the manual focus assist capability of their systems.


In the end Leica exist in their own niche but to maintain that they probably need to keep the optical rangefinder line alive (even if just for brand heritage reasons)

(Agree that others probably don’t care enough to copy Leica )


It's difficult to predict because first of all the Leica user base within the overall photographic market is very niche, but it's also probably the least homogenous user base in still photography. There are certainly some using the M system primarily because of the optical rangefinder system. And others, for other technical reasons. And then there are personal, very subjective reasons for wanting to use a Leica camera/system, including non-photographic reasons (whether it's Leica-as-jewelry or other status/exclusivity reasons). And this and other reasons are all mixed in various proportions for each person... Leica's overall brand though plays a role in all of it and it would make sense for them to maintain the traditional M system as a cornerstone of their heritage. Just look at film M cameras. They still exist but must be a very small percentage of sales and perhaps even lose money.



Sep 29, 2025 at 01:32 PM
pmeheut
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p.26 #10 · Leica M EV1


johnvanr wrote:
But these large language models just allow us to tap into an enormous amount of stuff without the model being able to distinguish between what’s right and what’s wrong. I’ve done AI searches on stuff I know something about and in some cases it perpetuates false information.

Indeed but this is a common problem: the same can be said for any source including reputable ones.
When I'm using AI to search and need to be 100% sure the information is exact, I ask for the sources and check them myself. The AI finds more information than I would and quickly, it is much more efficient than a normal search engine because it filters everything that is not relevant by being smarter than simply matching words. So I gain a lot of time.

Also, forcing the AI to search the Internet gives better results that letting it answer quickly by what it thinks it knows.

johnvanr wrote:
Garbage in, garbage out still applies and there is not enough focus on the validity of the information that goes in.

Defining what is true and is not always easy. Ask a sociologist, philosopher or even a mathematician. Of course, when it comes to technical fields, the truth is usually well defined.

johnvanr wrote:
Overall, I find it ironic that we increasingly seem to rely on these new models while we all probably have encountered issues with faulty GPS instructions, even after that technology has now been around for decades.

Never prevented me to use GPS as soon as possible: the added value was worth the issues. Same of AI today.
I learn the limits of the tools I use.
For instance, I may sometimes cut myself while cooking because I use razor-sharp japanese knives sharpened with love. I do not avoid to use them till they include a finger protection mechanism.

johnvanr wrote:
I’m fine with humans commenting on what they expect and want, but at least I know they’re just guessing.

Nowadays, it helps to think of LLMs more as humans than computers.
Because they reproduce/simulate some of our language capabilities and share our flaws: an imperfect memory, the capability to be wrong AND self-confident, no problem to talk about things they do not really understand...

One the other hand, I do not write code anymore: they do it for me and are better than me. So I accept the occasional error.



Sep 29, 2025 at 09:34 PM
 


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fjablo
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p.26 #11 · Leica M EV1


Guys, would you mind moving your AI discussion to another thread?


Sep 30, 2025 at 12:01 AM
bwcolor
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p.26 #12 · Leica M EV1


Looks like specifications have surfaced:

Andrea Pizzini

?si=mSKCDxWXwxW2gOUR



Oct 03, 2025 at 11:29 AM
pmeheut
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p.26 #13 · Leica M EV1


bwcolor wrote:
Looks like specifications have surfaced:

Andrea Pizzini

?si=mSKCDxWXwxW2gOUR


Nothing new, this is what has been posted above, copied from rumors sites.



Oct 03, 2025 at 11:44 AM
bwcolor
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p.26 #14 · Leica M EV1




pmeheut wrote:
Nothing new, this is what has been posted above, copied from rumors sites.

And one vendor has posted specs for preorder.



Oct 03, 2025 at 01:32 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #15 · Leica M EV1


New info from Leica rumors:

"The upcoming Leica M EV1 camera was described to me as a Leica Q camera with an M-mount. The look of the M EV1 will be closer to that of the Leica Q, rather than the classic Leica M rangefinder design. There will be no hybrid or optical viewfinder as previously speculated..."







Oct 04, 2025 at 03:29 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #16 · Leica M EV1


Depending on pricing, I think this could impact the sale of the Leica Q more than the M series, especially for those who don't mind manual focusing. The ability to use any M lens on the Q could be a deciding factor, but in the end, Leica wins either way.

If that's the case, this rumor was framed incorrectly from the start. This isn't a variation of the M11, but a variation of the Q series! Basically a Leica Q without a built-in lens and with an M-mount. Leica should've called it Leica Q-M.



Oct 04, 2025 at 03:50 PM
johnvanr
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p.26 #17 · Leica M EV1


Then the question becomes if it has a Q price or a M price.


Oct 04, 2025 at 04:06 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #18 · Leica M EV1


johnvanr wrote:
Then the question becomes if it has a Q price or a M price.


Logically, it should cost less than a Leica Q3 since it is just the mount with no lens. But with Leica pricing, logic does not really apply.



Oct 04, 2025 at 04:08 PM
EMH2025
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p.26 #19 · Leica M EV1


Fred Miranda wrote:
New info from Leica rumors:

"The upcoming Leica M EV1 camera was described to me as a Leica Q camera with an M-mount. The look of the M EV1 will be closer to that of the Leica Q, rather than the classic Leica M rangefinder design. There will be no hybrid or optical viewfinder as previously speculated..."


On the AI render- I know this AI but IF and it is an IF the dimensions are correct with the mount dimension then the M-EVF is physically smaller than the M11 by a good margin and it does indeed look like a Q with M mount with some M features. Would make "pocketing" it even easier with a 1-3 small lenses- 50 mm (apo)summicron, elcan, CS, or leica F1.4 35..... 21 28, 90 colorskopers..... take your pick + vintages. I for one would like a tiny(ier) camera but at 10K (presumed) is this a better path than buying 2 sonys, or maybe 3 Z7III if the specs are what is rumored (not that I would buy 3). Anyways the AI render is likely off in displayed dimensions, although I for one will hope it is tiny it would be a point in its favor.

So is this a dwarf M... or is the AI just rendering a Q as M, I am kind of assuming the AI has it wrong that Leica would keep the battery from the M and if so that sets the width of the camera and likely with it the other dimensions using the M size.

Not in the specs, but I'd like them to ditch the cable release in favor of an electric one that would allow for intervals, if interval timing is not in software- the shutter button in the AI render does look like no cable, but again it is AI.

It is a 10K question- I don't have an answer for me, I did tell a Leica dealer to put me on his list, informal, since it was denied such a camera exists or will exist.. so the list is just in theory... I guess I was the second "customer" for the list for a camera that doesn't actually exist.... just a question of then excising the option.



Oct 04, 2025 at 04:45 PM
panos.v
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p.26 #20 · Leica M EV1




johnvanr wrote:
Then the question becomes if it has a Q price or a M price.


The price will be Q+M!



Oct 04, 2025 at 04:57 PM
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