p.10 #1 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
woof2025 wrote:
If everyone wants proof (I find this thing so strange) that I'm not trolling, if you like I will now be on the Sony forum where I will be asking questions about my new Sony A7RV which is also drum roll.. not perfect. No camera is perfect, I am not trolling this forum as I will not be trolling the Sony forum. Whats the point in a forum if you can't ask questions about things that aren't working as you'd expect?
Maybe your not a troll. But you started as a first time poster with a question about your new camera and got some serious answers which I dont know if you read before your second post which was you buying another camera.
If its not trolling, it at least doesnt seem like that you started the discusison with an serious inquiry, What was your purpose?
p.10 #2 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
tzhang4284 wrote:
I think it's this forum - I find the Sony and Leica forums generally more cordial. There's a lot of Nikon brand fanaticism here.
That said, I do think you might be overthinking your decision a bit much. Unless you're looking to photograph or record some very challenging situations - I think the Z8 can handle it well. I spent some more time with my Z6III this afternoon on a family walk - for a standard head and shoulder portrait with the 24-120mm f4, the eye af performed really well and is very close to some old shots I took with the 135mm f1.8 and sony a7r v. Where I think it falls apart is if there's a lot of action and if you crank up the ISO - I think Sony hangs in there longer on the eye af partly due to the AF motor of the lenses.
For the intended uses of a 85mm f1.2 lens, I don't think you should be worried about the eye af quality. Also for your Alaska trip, I'd go with the 180-600mm and 14-30mm over the 100-500mm or a 28-400mm. I went on a quick camping trip a few years ago and grabbed the sony a1, 200-600mm, 16-35mm, a 28-60mm kit lens, and a tripod. Most of my images were taken on the first two lenses and the weight was manageable. Getting to 600mm is valuable given some of the wildlife out there and I'd take that over losing 100mm on the wide end. ...Show more →
I disagree with your "Nikon brand fanaticism", I see nothing like it here in this forum, people just like to shoot with Nikon for different reasons, and they don't care about other brands.
I've been here since 2011, and I'm pretty confident that Nikon community is nothing like some trying to provoke, or describe like.
I don't want to repeat, you can go back and read LanceB's post on previous page, he summarized it the way I see it as well.
You would see pretty much the same thing in any other forum, if one or more Nikon shooters, who don't even owe particular gear, with no experience on it,
would go over there to lecture others constantly, trying to explain to them how wrong life they live choosing that particular brand.
I exaggerated it a bit, for sure, but that's how it sounds like.
And that particular member or two never give up, never go away, they go there as soon as Nikon is mentioned in those forums, or it smells it's gonna be mentioned.
In simple word, it's about constant provocation and reaction to it, not fanaticism!
p.10 #3 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Lance B wrote:
Years ago, it was basically Canon and Nikon shooters and usually it was fun banter between the two main brands, you just didn't see that many or any Canon shooters here trying to espouse what they may perceive as Canon superiority or Nikon shooters in the Canon forum with said same. The two brands' users respected each other's camera systems and for using their brand of choice. We now have Sony into the mix with some of their users desire always needing to prove Sony's worth, and let's say some dubious motives behind their being continually on the Nikon forum. Like you, I watch these threads with dismay and try to keep out of them because it always ends up with a select group of Sony, let's say interlopers, coming into denigrate Nikon whenever they can which inevitably devolves into what we have here and in other threads of this type. These same few people push their perceived Sony superiority agenda which is to me is akin to a used car salesman - some may call it something else like a paid shill or troll. It seems to me, this fervent desire by a few Sony users that are always needing to prove that their Sony cameras and/or lenses are better for some reason. I just see it is an inferiority complex that some Sony users have for some reason always needing to prove a perceived superiority whether it is correct or not. I have never been to any other camera brand forum as it is irrelevant to me what they shoot or how good they perceive their cameras and lenses to be. I have no such an inferiority complex as I get the results I want from my Nikon gear and that is all I care about, and it would seem most here are in the same boat. I think many of us get fed up with these constant insurgences by a select few and thus short fuses develop. I also put it down to people seeing through some of these interlopers with their questionable motives.
...Show more →
^^^ This.
One of my New Year's resolutions was to stay out of toxic threads and Lance’s post above sums up my feelings. I guess I broke my resolution with this post so I’ll go back to the sidelines now.
p.10 #4 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
I'm with you on that. If I was the OP the responses from Nikon users on this post alone would be enough to make me want to switch systems. What an embarrassing and childish display.
Gary
p.10 #5 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Jepser wrote:
Maybe your not a troll. But you started as a first time poster with a question about your new camera and got some serious answers which I dont know if you read before your second post which was you buying another camera.
If its not trolling, it at least doesnt seem like that you started the discusison with an serious inquiry, What was your purpose?
My serious enquiry was is there a known focus issue with face tracker and is there a fix. Lots of questions about my lens choice and workflow etc. After being a professional for around 25 years I don't have any desire to chat about lens choices and workflow and if a camera requires me to use certain lenses then I'm not interested. I have no idea why this makes me a troll. My very first professional camera was a Nikon F90x which my Dad bought for me in 1997 which I still have. I currently own a Nikon F100, D810 and a D850 which has paid for my flat in London and every family holiday for the past 15 years. I also own a Sony FX30 and now a A7RV. In short I have nothing against Nikon. For me a camera is a tool, no more no less, I have zero brand loyalty. I can promise, Mr Nikon or Mr Sony doesn't care one bit for any of us. Pinning your identity on a camera system and getting upset if someone finds a fault with it is really strange.
p.10 #6 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Judging by the questions the OP is now aking over on the Sony forum as he works to understand his new A7RV I think we can confidently confirm he was sincere in his question, not a troll. Not a previously banned member. None of the things he was so unjustly accused of.
All of you who cast dispersion, engaged in name calling, labeling, and other attacks in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. A despicable display to put it mildy.
Some on the Nikon Forum have once again earned its negative reputation. You spent more time slandering and attacking people sincerely discussing a subject than you did addressing that subject.
As has been pointed out by many, a shameful, embarassing, and in the end sad display.
p.10 #7 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
woof2025 wrote:
My serious enquiry was is there a known focus issue with face tracker and is there a fix. Lots of questions about my lens choice and workflow etc. After being a professional for around 25 years I don't have any desire to chat about lens choices and workflow and if a camera requires me to use certain lenses then I'm not interested. I have no idea why this makes me a troll. My very first professional camera was a Nikon F90x which my Dad bought for me in 1997 which I still have. I currently own a Nikon F100, D810 and a D850 which has paid for my flat in London and every family holiday for the past 15 years. I also own a Sony FX30 and now a A7RV. In short I have nothing against Nikon. For me a camera is a tool, no more no less, I have zero brand loyalty. I can promise, Mr Nikon or Mr Sony doesn't care one bit for any of us. Pinning your identity on a camera system and getting upset if someone finds a fault with it is really strange. ...Show more →
Posting a question on a forum indicated that you had an interest in chatting about workflow rather than finding it on your own, but Im sorry for misslabeling you as a troll.
p.10 #8 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Jepser wrote:
Posting a question on a forum indicated that you had an interest in chatting about workflow rather than finding it on your own, but Im sorry for misslabeling you as a troll.
p.10 #9 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Jepser wrote:
Posting a question on a forum indicated that you had an interest in chatting about workflow rather than finding it on your own, but Im sorry for misslabeling you as a troll.
p.10 #10 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
Not really sure what to tell you. I don’t shoot birds or kids. I don’t shoot “sports” per se but I spent the better part of 7 years shooting dance editorial work and those people move. I shoot a lot of dancers still, for my personal work and commissions. Most of my dance work exists in the 50-120mm range and at the upper range of that FOV it’s a real struggle to get a face out of focus due to distance & compression - it’s impossible to select an eye, even at f/2.2-2.8
There’s a bunch of running dogs, automotive sports, and air shows shot on the Z series around that I feel confident if I had to nail that stuff I could (with some rental lenses).
Good luck.
AlphaPhotography wrote:
Just re-reading your response now but I don't think this would work for my use. I'm almost always in need of sharp focus on the eyes for fast moving people (kids), sports, running dogs, and wildlife/BIF. I'll give your recommendation a shot but it sounds like it would not achieve focus on the eyes in these situations unless I'm misunderstanding it. Based on your settings do you think the Z8 can't be relied on for general full-time eye-AF without this initial 3D tracking? Or for fast moving subjects in general (getting the eyes in focus)? It sounds like your use is for slower moving people (fashion and beauty) so your settings may not be applicable for sports/action/wildlife.
Do you do any video? What AF settings would you recommend for that to achieve consistent eye-AF?...Show more →
p.10 #11 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
sum1sgrampa wrote:
I'm with you on that. If I was the OP the responses from Nikon users on this post alone would be enough to make me want to switch systems. What an embarrassing and childish display.
Gary
I definitely don't want to let a few bad actors influence my decision on whether to stick with Nikon or invest more into the system but it certainly makes it more difficult to learn the camera nuances and complexity that they talk so much about. Very few users have addressed or answered the actual questions in this thread. Some have disagreed on them but there is no clear answer.
On page one groob mentioned that he can just set the camera to AA (Auto Area) AF with (human) subject detection on and it just works. However, other users seem to disagree with that and say that it requires different settings combinations or 3D tracking due to a "more complex AF system".
jlafferty on page one said: "I’ve had incredible success with: disable face detect AF on the camera; set the camera to 3D tracking (sticky box); then use Recall Shooting Function Hold to enable Face detect. Now you’ll 3d track anything you want sharp by default, and at times you’ll assign the sticky box to the face, or even the eye. But then if you’re comfortably shooting the face of your subject for, say, 1/4 or more of the frame, press a button you’ve assigned RSFH to, and boom, it picks the eye up."
Does this mean that what groob said isn't accurate and that eye-AF can't really be relied on? Or is it lens/lighting specific? This workflow seems too complicated for run and gun shooting, moving subjects, dogs, wildlife, BIF, etc. I can think back to all the times I used to get focus on the wingtips of birds, the noses of dogs, and OOF shots of my nephews before the advent of eye-AF which has been a complete game changer. I remember back when it came out with my original Sony A7II but only worked in AF-S. It still made shooting portraits so much easier.
uncoy said "A peculiarity of Nikon focus is that it's much more difficult to get a Nikon camera to focus on a backlit subject." and that it takes "A bit of fiddling around, reframing/framing back and one has the sharp backlit picture."
I often shoot backlit portraits with OCF (Off Camera Flash) so this in itself would be an issue if I decide to pickup an 85mm f1.2 Z to replace my RF 85mm f1.2. This issue isn't unique to Nikon but sounds like it may be exacerbated as I think Sony and Canon have improved dramatically in this regard. Canon's lens flare resistance is still quite poor though.
On page 2 GreggNY mentioned "the Nikon definitely does take some learning and experience. Shooting my kid sleigh riding over the past few days with the Nikon required using 3D AF mode and sometimes a custom small box as opposed to auto area AF. Not sure why auto area was jumping around more than usual, but I did what needed to be done and then 99% of shots were in focus with both side profile and head on. From past experience, wide or zone on the Sony would probably be idiot-proof to get good shots."
On page 4 Alistair1 said: "I just use auto area with subject id in both video and stills. Particularly in video (80% of my usage) the subject detection, eye AF and tracking I find to work very well, even shooting through foliage." in regards to wildlife.
On page 4 bernardl said: My advise:
"- Use your lenses as open as possible, f1.2 provides the best AF performance
- Use custom AF area with subject recognition limited to people
- Set the interruption setting to the lower possible value (highest possible reactivity)
- Shoot in short bursts instead of single shot
- Set your EVF mode to natural (not setting reflected)
- Desactivate IBIS if you don't really need it"
That's about all the substance I could find in this 10 page thread. Everything else is just accusing the OP of being a troll or bashing users who "just need to learn the camera". There seems to be a disagreement on how these newer Nikon bodies operate best, with some saying they are complex and need lots of tweaking to get consistent focus, and others saying you can "set it and forget it" (in Auto Area AF with subject detection).
p.10 #12 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
cvrle59 wrote:
I disagree with your "Nikon brand fanaticism", I see nothing like it here in this forum, people just like to shoot with Nikon for different reasons, and they don't care about other brands.
I've been here since 2011, and I'm pretty confident that Nikon community is nothing like some trying to provoke, or describe like.
I don't want to repeat, you can go back and read LanceB's post on previous page, he summarized it the way I see it as well.
You would see pretty much the same thing in any other forum, if one or more Nikon shooters, who don't even owe particular gear, with no experience on it,
would go over there to lecture others constantly, trying to explain to them how wrong life they live choosing that particular brand.
I exaggerated it a bit, for sure, but that's how it sounds like.
And that particular member or two never give up, never go away, they go there as soon as Nikon is mentioned in those forums, or it smells it's gonna be mentioned.
In simple word, it's about constant provocation and reaction to it, not fanaticism! ...Show more →
Yeah, especially when the red flags are everywhere. You claim you've owned a D850 "10 years" (3 years longer than it's been available), and claim to be a working photographer that does "GQ covers all the time" and works with the best digis in the world, why would a Z8 be a stumbling block when out of the box it is superior in terms of AF than the D850 and D810?
Furthermore, why would a mature working photographer think that a new piece of gear would only take 1 day to master, and care so much about what people on forums think? It all screams troll.
p.10 #13 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
The reality of the situation is I could post my exact button layout and settings and in another set of hands, totally different output would be possible due to differing skill levels, reaction times, anticipation zone focusing, and a slew of other factors. I've put in the 10,000 hours and can get great results out of any brand, so these conversations are squarely in the realm of amateurs unwilling to do the same, or pros expecting to pick up a new toy and expect it to work just like their totally different one of which they've put a ton of time into learning the ins and outs.
Then there would be bitching that Scott oversold the capabilities of the camera and must be a brand whore falsely advocating for an inferior product, so why bother with all that?
My Z cameras are on Area with subject detection the vast majority of the time and the results speak for themselves. It's why I post so many photos, to counteract all this inferiority complex FUD propagated by a handful of loser Sony fanboys that come here to waste away their sunset years.
p.10 #14 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
sungphoto wrote:
Yeah, especially when the red flags are everywhere. You claim you've owned a D850 "10 years" (3 years longer than it's been available), and claim to be a working photographer that does "GQ covers all the time" and works with the best digis in the world, why would a Z8 be a stumbling block when out of the box it is superior in terms of AF than the D850 and D810?
Furthermore, why would a mature working photographer think that a new piece of gear would only take 1 day to master, and care so much about what people on forums think? It all screams troll. ...Show more →
Yes, it is so obvious, but OP's advocate is still pushing his well known narative, with some really toxic wording.
I would friendly advise all people here who supported that kind of wording, and reaction, to carefully study Nikon forum, they will definitely recognize pattern, and reasons for.
So many great people in this forum don't want to come out from shade because of him.
I have no idea why I did, but most likely, this is gonna be the last one to argue with such a nonsense.
p.10 #15 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
cvrle59 wrote:
Yes, it is so obvious, but OP's advocate is still pushing his well known narative, with some really toxic wording.
I would friendly advise all people here who supported that kind of wording, and reaction, to carefully study Nikon forum, they will definitely recognize pattern, and reasons for.
Yeah, my strong suspicion is it's just the same person talking to himself in a few different troll accounts, which is even sadder.
p.10 #16 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
RoamingScott wrote:
The reality of the situation is I could post my exact button layout and settings and in another set of hands, totally different output would be possible due to differing skill levels, reaction times, anticipation zone focusing, and a slew of other factors. I've put in the 10,000 hours and can get great results out of any brand, so these conversations are squarely in the realm of amateurs unwilling to do the same, or pros expecting to pick up a new toy and expect it to work just like their totally different one of which they've put a ton of time into learning the ins and outs.
Then there would be bitching that Scott oversold the capabilities of the camera and must be a brand whore falsely advocating for an inferior product, so why bother with all that?
My Z cameras are on Area with subject detection the vast majority of the time and the results speak for themselves. It's why I post so many photos, to counteract all this inferiority complex FUD propagated by a handful of loser Sony fanboys that come here to waste away their sunset years....Show more →
I can assure you that is the wrong approach. There are plenty of extremely helpful settings recommendations on this forum across all brands. To avoid posting your settings because you think it won't work in someone else's hands or because you think you'll get some sort of backlash is silly. This forum was built around helping others and sharing.
But it is good to know that for you Auto Area with subject detection works well. Many others in this thread have inferred that it doesn't and that more complex settings adjustments are needed for consistent focus.
p.10 #18 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
sungphoto wrote:
Yeah, my strong suspicion is it's just the same person talking to himself in a few different troll accounts, which is even sadder.
What a bunch of absolute B.S.. Only one account in my life here on FM. AS for trolling, I never posted one negative thing about Nikon in this thread. In fact very much the opposite. Doesn't sound like trolling to me. Go read the posts. I have objected to the typical bad behavior by the usual posters on the Nikon forums. You continue to earn that reputation.
p.10 #19 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
AlphaPhotography wrote:
I can assure you that is the wrong approach. There are plenty of extremely helpful settings recommendations on this forum across all brands. To avoid posting your settings because you think it won't work in someone else's hands or because you think you'll get some sort of backlash is silly. This forum was built around helping others and sharing.
But it is good to know that for you Auto Area with subject detection works well. Many others in this thread have inferred that it doesn't and that more complex settings adjustments are needed for consistent focus.
You might (or might not) be amazed at how often people are the biggest enemy of themselves...don't take the time to read the manual, research what a setting DOES, and then get their camera so misconfigured that they come here going "why doesn't it work?!". Of course more often than not, doing a reset and trying Area + Subject on the newest firmware gives better results than what they were seeing.
4.1 on Z9 and 2.0 on Z8 were gamechanger firmwares. Much of what you read on the internet about these two cameras were before those came out.
p.10 #20 · After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV
woof and others, I suggest blocking the aggressors among us. Some of these same people been aggressing in other threads about AF issues, and it's not worth the trouble TBH.
