p.1 #1 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Came from R5 to R5 mk ii and was hoping that the focus would be faster to follow birds flying e.g. from a branch, but I am struggling to make it work.
Precapture captures the bird "lift off" fine, but then it seems like it cannot track the bird somehow. It becomes out of focus as it flies away. I am using back button focus with one button for spot focus and one for eye focus. Even if i continuously press the eye focus button (using back button focus), the camera does not follow the bird as it takes of, but continues to keep focus where it originally was. Is this to be expected? The bird is very fast, so it might not be fast enough to follow it this closely? The lens is EF 600 f/4 II and the photos are uncropped.
p.1 #2 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
It is to be expected - you might have better success with something like the R1 or A9iii. Perhaps someone with an R1 can post a sequence of a small fast bird to see how it performs in similar situations.
Note that very fast lateral movement will often result in subject detection being lost - for example of the eye moves from one side of the frame to the other in a single frame then the subject detection may not be able to figure that out fast enough to keep up. However unless the subject distance has changed you may not notice any focus change.
These are the limits one has to work within.
Blue-tailed Bee-eater heading directly towards the camera - the bird eye af box is on the Birds Eye in every frame but you can see slight back focus on a few early frames
Little Green Bee-eater moving laterally across the frame - note that there is no panning, the bird is way too fast to follow with the human eye - that's just an illusion created by the crop box (in post) moving across the frame.
p.1 #3 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
As you trying to track the bird with eye detection on? I’ve been experimenting with trying to track in these situations with eye detection off and feel like I’ve been having a lot better success with both the R5ii and R1. It seems like the camera sometimes gets fooled and recognizes some non-eye thing as an eye and will try to track it, or not track anything at all. I’ve been experimenting with various cases/configurations of the AF settings as well and haven’t really settled on what I like best. With the R5 and R3, I was almost always putting subject switching to -2 and accel/decel tracking to +2, but for some reason I’m not finding that they track these liftoff sequences as well with those. Jan Wegener has been using -1 and -1 for the R52 and the straight out of the box standard configuration for the R1.
p.1 #4 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Yes, I am using my assigned back button focus with for eye detection AF. I am using Jan Wegeners settings for the camera. This suits me very well, because then I can have one button as spot and one with eye detection. I guess there is no way of having a button that does object detection and combine that with a button with spot focus? I guess to do that, I will be forced to set AF Area to a "non locked" mode, and then I will not be able to have a button for pure spot. But I guess I could assign a new custom mode to be used for pre-capture that always had an object tracking AF area enabled.
p.1 #5 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
duncangr wrote:
It is to be expected - you might have better success with something like the R1 or A9iii. Perhaps someone with an R1 can post a sequence of a small fast bird to see how it performs in similar situations.
Note that very fast lateral movement will often result in subject detection being lost - for example of the eye moves from one side of the frame to the other in a single frame then the subject detection may not be able to figure that out fast enough to keep up. However unless the subject distance has changed you may not notice any focus change.
These are the limits one has to work within. ...Show more →
Yes, I was afraid of this. The bird moves out of the frame in "a blink of an eye", and I guess it will be almost impossible to both calculate and move the lens elements that fast...
p.1 #6 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
I have three buttons set on the back of my cameras.
AF-ON button is set for a precision point with no tracking. This is essentially just the same as a single point on a DSLR.
The * button is set to eye tracking focus across the whole area.
The button to the right of the * is now set to track a point, but does not focus on the eye. I have varied between having this pick up a subject across the whole frame vs starting with a set point that I pick and then tracking that once I engage the button. It’s been more successful in tracking the birds that are taking off when I have it started with a single AF point on the bird, or at least it does a better job of initially acquiring focus.
You might try the three back button option and try that third setup I mentioned.
steinrr wrote:
Yes, I am using my assigned back button focus with for eye detection AF. I am using Jan Wegeners settings for the camera. This suits me very well, because then I can have one button as spot and one with eye detection. I guess there is no way of having a button that does object detection and combine that with a button with spot focus? I guess to do that, I will be forced to set AF Area to a "non locked" mode, and then I will not be able to have a button for pure spot. But I guess I could assign a new custom mode to be used for pre-capture that always had an object tracking AF area enabled. ...Show more →
p.1 #7 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
I'm not a birder but I've done some experimentation (without precapture on) of birds leaving a perch recently and I've learned you will probably experience a low success rate of nailing an in-focus sequence due to the speed at which birds takeoff and change direction. You'll have more chance of success of the bird flying left/right vs flying at you.
I have a portrait spot where there's small birds around and my method of experimentation with this is to focus on the bird (both with either spot or AI detection), and then hold the shutter button down as I kick a bush. The bird then flies away and the keeper rate is low. The results are obviously the same with precapture on or off.
I don't know what all the hype is about precapture is but if you don't have it on your camera, simply setup for takeoff and then kick a bush or some leaves and you'll get the same results.
p.1 #8 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
KINGOFKINGS, how are you able to get the third button (normally AF point selection) to have a different tracking option? When I go to customize buttons I only get AF-On and metering start option for that button. There is no info details option like on the AF-ON and * buttons.
p.1 #9 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
KINGOFKNGS wrote:
I have three buttons set on the back of my cameras.
AF-ON button is set for a precision point with no tracking. This is essentially just the same as a single point on a DSLR.
The * button is set to eye tracking focus across the whole area.
The button to the right of the * is now set to track a point, but does not focus on the eye. I have varied between having this pick up a subject across the whole frame vs starting with a set point that I pick and then tracking that once I engage the button. It’s been more successful in tracking the birds that are taking off when I have it started with a single AF point on the bird, or at least it does a better job of initially acquiring focus.
You might try the three back button option and try that third setup I mentioned.
p.1 #10 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
That’s your problem… you have whole area tracking off while in servo. Turn that on!!!
steinrr wrote:
This is interesting - could you take a picture of the assignment of these three buttons? I am interested to see what you have assigned to these.
p.1 #11 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
bcaslis wrote:
KINGOFKINGS, how are you able to get the third button (normally AF point selection) to have a different tracking option? When I go to customize buttons I only get AF-On and metering start option for that button. There is no info details option like on the AF-ON and * buttons.
In my experience with the R5, R3 and R5II you need to use the "Register/Recall Shooting Function" for that third button because as you say it doesn't allow the INFO Details like the other buttons do. I assume this is the same on the R1.
p.1 #12 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
arbitrage wrote:
In my experience with the R5, R3 and R5II you need to use the "Register/Recall Shooting Function" for that third button because as you say it doesn't allow the INFO Details like the other buttons do. I assume this is the same on the R1.
Thanks, yes that works on both the R5II and the R1.
p.1 #13 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
steinrr wrote:
Came from R5 to R5 mk ii and was hoping that the focus would be faster to follow birds flying e.g. from a branch, but I am struggling to make it work.
Precapture captures the bird "lift off" fine, but then it seems like it cannot track the bird somehow. It becomes out of focus as it flies away. I am using back button focus with one button for spot focus and one for eye focus. Even if i continuously press the eye focus button (using back button focus), the camera does not follow the bird as it takes of, but continues to keep focus where it originally was. Is this to be expected? The bird is very fast, so it might not be fast enough to follow it this closely? The lens is EF 600 f/4 II and the photos are uncropped.
You only have to use one button, the shutter button. Half-depress to start pre-capture and fully depress as soon as bird takes off. No need for eye focus, just have all focus points activated. Odds of keeping bird in-focus if it is flying towards your camera are very low compared to it flying at right angles to you.
p.1 #14 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
arbitrage wrote:
In my experience with the R5, R3 and R5II you need to use the "Register/Recall Shooting Function" for that third button because as you say it doesn't allow the INFO Details like the other buttons do. I assume this is the same on the R1.
This is correct on the R1 as well.
One other thing on this--if the bird is nearly frame filling while on the perch, you'll have next to no success. It it's smaller in the frame to start with, you'll have better luck.
p.1 #15 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
PurpleSKY wrote:
That’s your problem… you have whole area tracking off while in servo. Turn that on!!!
No, I think you misunderstand my setup. Having this setting as base, allows me to have a back button just for the purpose as locked spot focus. When I click that button (the * button), it will give me pure spot with no tracking.
But as you can see, I have assigned AF-On to eye detection AF - and that is using the whole area for detection of eye.
p.1 #16 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
I do understand the setup.. trust me, turn that on. The problem is ur only AF’ing for the sake of the eye and that’s why you’re missing focus man. When u use regular focus it hits the eye when it can and the body when it can’t. Ur bird is taking off so fast, loses the eye, and then stays on some branch looking for an eye.
You came asking for help and I’m giving you a suggestion.. take it or leave it I guess… but turn that setting on. I don’t have the same problems and catch em off the perch always… so do what you want.
steinrr wrote:
No, I think you misunderstand my setup. Having this setting as base, allows me to have a back button just for the purpose as locked spot focus. When I click that button (the * button), it will give me pure spot with no tracking.
But as you can see, I have assigned AF-On to eye detection AF - and that is using the whole area for detection of eye.
p.1 #17 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
PurpleSKY wrote:
I do understand the setup.. trust me, turn that on. The problem is ur only AF’ing for the sake of the eye and that’s why you’re missing focus man. When u use regular focus it hits the eye when it can and the body when it can’t. Ur bird is taking off so fast, loses the eye, and then stays on some branch looking for an eye.
You came asking for help and I’m giving you a suggestion.. take it or leave it I guess… but turn that setting on. I don’t have the same problems and catch em off the perch always… so do what you want.
I wondered what it would do if it could not find the eye when using back button "Eye detection AF" button. According to this, it would do face > head > torso > upper body (some models) > full body as fallback if it cannot detect eye (if the answer is correct in that thread).
Some background for my settings:
The issue with whole area tracking is that it is disabled when using "Spot focus (locked)" as AF Area. I cannot turn it on. And I prefer to use "Spot focus (locked)" as default AF, because it enables me to have one button for "pure Spot focus" and this other for "Eye detection AF". If I did not use "Spot focus (locked)" as AF Area, there is no way to have a pure spot focus without any tracking.
But I have created a new custom program for the precapture situation where I leave more to the camera (including whole area AF) and I will test this soon. Hopefully it will perform better than the Eye detect AF button for this.
p.1 #18 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Yes, please test that. I think ur overcomplicating the one button setup, and shutter only would be ok.. I seem to catch birds just using shutter, pre capture, and whole area AF.
steinrr wrote:
Thanks for the patience I asked the same question here:
I wondered what it would do if it could not find the eye when using back button "Eye detection AF" button. According to this, it would do face > head > torso > upper body (some models) > full body as fallback if it cannot detect eye (if the answer is correct in that thread).
Some background for my settings:
The issue with whole area tracking is that it is disabled when using "Spot focus (locked)" as AF Area. I cannot turn it on. And I prefer to use "Spot focus (locked)" as default AF, because it enables me to have one button for "pure Spot focus" and this other for "Eye detection AF". If I did not use "Spot focus (locked)" as AF Area, there is no way to have a pure spot focus without any tracking.
But I have created a new custom program for the precapture situation where I leave more to the camera (including whole area AF) and I will test this soon. Hopefully it will perform better than the Eye detect AF button for this. ...Show more →
p.1 #19 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
PurpleSKY wrote:
Yes, please test that. I think ur overcomplicating the one button setup, and shutter only would be ok.. I seem to catch birds just using shutter, pre capture, and whole area AF.
Yes, the new cameras has so much technology now, that sometimes it might be best to let the system decide the best approach. In this new setup I have shutter button doing focus as well. Hopefully it will work for the precapture situation.
But the back button setup will probably be my go-to in a separate custom program - because of the locked spot-focus and the need for being able to manually focus on e.g. a bird hidden away behind a lot of branches. If I use the shutter for focus, this will override my manual focus - so I cannot use this as default.
But having two programs should solve it and then I can switch between them. Will test and let you know.
p.1 #20 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Feel free to post your examples in the precapture thread. You'll notice it's been a very slow thread considering it's cross posted to both Canon and Sony:
I asked the same question here: