p.2 #2 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
It is absolutely focusing during pre-capture. This is a boilerplate disclaimer not to be surprised when the camera doesn't get the bird taking off the perch. This is no different as if you turn off precapture, simply start capturing frames - the first few frames of the bird taking off will be OOF. With precapture this is much easier to notice, but not new, because people often miss the takeoff.
I own both the R5m2 and R1 and AF definitely works with precapture, assuming you have AF set on the shutter button, or you also operate your BBF button of choice.
p.2 #3 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Thanks Stanj for confirming focusing during pre-capture. Pre-capture without autofocusing would be more or less useless feature. One thing I do not understand in Jan's video is why he is using case "AUTO" for focusing and then he changes "Case Auto Character" to "Responsive: +1" and claimes it helped somehow. According to R1 operating manual (I assume it is also written in R5II manual) "Responsive: +1 makes it easier for the camera to switch tracked subjects if jou want to capture several subjects in succession, for example". I do not see how it could help here but apparently it helped a bit. I think the proper setting here would be to use "AF: Case Manual" and set "Accel./deccel. tracking" to +1 or +2. R1 manual explains here: "Effective for subjects having sudden movements, sudden acceleration/deceleration, or sudden stops. Even if the moving subject's speed suddenly changes significantly, the camera continues to focus on the target subject. For example, the camera is less likely to focus behind a subject that suddenly starts approaching you, or in front of an approaching subject that suddenly stops moving. Setting +2 can track dramatic changes in the moving subjet's speed better than with +1. However, since the camera will be sensitive to even slight movements of the subject, focusing may become unstable for short periods. I do not have neither R5II nor R1 (thinking about getting R1 in the future) but as you have both cameras it would be great if you could test occasionally pre-capture autofocus with settings mentioned above and let us know. According to R1 manual it is exactly what should help here. I wonder why Jan as experienced photographer and Canon user didn't come up to idea to test these settings...
p.2 #5 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
If I properly understand instructions in the manual there is nothing that could be set to +2 when in Auto. And Jan says in his video that setting "Responsive" to +1 is improving the success of lounch shots. And he also says rather quickly in video (..I am not sure if I properly understood his words..) that he was trying different AF modes and AF setting to Auto and Responsive to +1 gave him best results. Perhaps he tested "AF: Case Manual" and set "Accel./deccel. tracking" to +1 or +2" also and found out that such setting did not give him better results than Auto and "Responsive" to +1. It is hard to say but to me it looks like proper setting for solving mentioned problem with AF, according to description in manual, would be to use "AF: Case Manual" and set "Accel./deccel. tracking" to +1 or +2. But of course it must be tested in practice and description in maual is not relevant as long as empirically found other setting(s) give better results.
p.2 #6 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Mikica wrote:
If I properly understand instructions in the manual there is nothing that could be set to +2 when in Auto. And Jan says in his video that setting "Responsive" to +1 is improving the success of lounch shots. And he also says rather quickly in video (..I am not sure if I properly understood his words..) that he was trying different AF modes and AF setting to Auto and Responsive to +1 gave him best results. Perhaps he tested "AF: Case Manual" and set "Accel./deccel. tracking" to +1 or +2" also and found out that such setting did not give him better results than Auto and "Responsive" to +1. It is hard to say but to me it looks like proper setting for solving mentioned problem with AF, according to description in manual, would be to use "AF: Case Manual" and set "Accel./deccel. tracking" to +1 or +2. But of course it must be tested in practice and description in maual is not relevant as long as empirically found other setting(s) give better results....Show more →
I miss quoted and thought Auto went up to +2 which it doesn't so it was +1. Sorry for the confusion. Will edit my post.
p.2 #7 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
duncangr wrote:
Well well well... is seems focussing during pre-capture is not supported by the R5ii and R1 - see the warning in both the Canon manuals.
p.2 #8 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
stanj wrote:
It is absolutely focusing during pre-capture. This is a boilerplate disclaimer not to be surprised when the camera doesn't get the bird taking off the perch. This is no different as if you turn off precapture, simply start capturing frames - the first few frames of the bird taking off will be OOF. With precapture this is much easier to notice, but not new, because people often miss the takeoff.
I own both the R5m2 and R1 and AF definitely works with pre-capture, assuming you have AF set on the shutter button, or you also operate your BBF button of choice.
So are you saying that regardless of whether pre-capture is used or not these cameras can't keep the bird in focus in this scenario ?
In that case it seems very strange that this disclaimer is only mentioned in the pre-capture section of the manuals and not in the more general AF section.
p.2 #9 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
arbitrage wrote:
In Jan’s video he says Auto with a +1 is improving the success of launch shots.
The whole thing is a little unclear to me - from the comments it seems some folks have zero success unless the bird stays in the same focal plane, they don't seem to mention whether bird size or speed is a factor either so I am assuming that doesn't matter much.
Some tests with the two scenarios 1) launch and 2) bird in flight catching bug for different bird sizes/speed would provide clarity as to what one can reasonably expect.
Sounds like a job for you Geoff, if you can't get it working reliably the rest of us probably won't be able to either.
p.2 #10 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
duncangr wrote:
The whole thing is a little unclear to me - from the comments it seems some folks have zero success unless the bird stays in the same focal plane, they don't seem to mention whether bird size or speed is a factor either so I am assuming that doesn't matter much.
Some tests with the two scenarios 1) launch and 2) bird in flight catching bug for different bird sizes/speed would provide clarity as to what one can reasonably expect.
Sounds like a job for you Geoff, if you can't get it working reliably the rest of us probably won't be able to either. ...Show more →
I'm no birder but it's not hard to sit around at my portrait spot and shoot the little birds in the surrounding bush. I've shot a bunch of small birds taking off without pre-capture turned on and I'm not getting good results so why would pre-capture work any better? It might nail a few decent shots in the sequence but nothing like the sequences that I've seen you guys nail with Sony gear. Are those sequences common or are they still a low percentage hit rate?
I haven't played around with AF case settings but I doubt that will help. I've only seen a few good shots posted here of birds taking off sideways from Canon pre-capture. Not much at all coming directly at the camera.
As for now it seems to me the Sony gear performs much than the R5II/R1 for this application.
p.2 #11 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
artsupreme wrote:
I'm no birder but it's not hard to sit around at my portrait spot and shoot the little birds in the surrounding bush. I've shot a bunch of small birds taking off without pre-capture turned on and I'm not getting good results so why would pre-capture work any better? It might nail a few decent shots in the sequence but nothing like the sequences that I've seen you guys nail with Sony gear. Are those sequences common or are they still a low percentage hit rate?
I haven't played around with AF case settings but I doubt that will help. I've only seen a few good shots posted here of birds taking off sideways from Canon pre-capture. Not much at all coming directly at the camera.
As for now it seems to me the Sony gear performs much than the R5II/R1 for this application....Show more →
I didn't realise it doesn't work without pre-capture on the R1 - but yes I guess if it doesn't work without pre-capture it's unlikely to be work with pre-capture - just strange the manual has this comment in the pre-capture section.
A1 is fine with bigger birds like falcons etc. but I never had a lot of success with smaller birds like I do with the A9iii. In terms of hit rate I think more often than not the bird will be in focus - but having said that I know a lot of people are shooting birds much further away than I do so ymmv.
p.2 #12 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
duncangr wrote:
I didn't realise it doesn't work without pre-capture on the R1 - but yes I guess if it doesn't work without pre-capture it's unlikely to be work with pre-capture - just strange the manual has this comment in the pre-capture section.
A1 is fine with bigger birds like falcons etc. but I never had a lot of success with smaller birds like I do with the A9iii. In terms of hit rate I think more often than not the bird will be in focus - but having said that I know a lot of people are shooting birds much further away than I do so ymmv....Show more →
It works, but it's not going to nail every shot in the sequence like your first youtube clip. But then again you are shooting 120fps so there's less distance covered in your sequence consideirng the R1 would be 3x the distance at only 40fps to get the same number of frames.
I see in your second clip it misses the last shot so this is typical of what you would see with Canon.
p.2 #14 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
artsupreme wrote:
It works, but it's not going to nail every shot in the sequence like your first youtube clip. But then again you are shooting 120fps so there's less distance covered in your sequence consideirng the R1 would be 3x the distance at only 40fps to get the same number of frames.
I see in your second clip it misses the last shot so this is typical of what you would see with Canon.
In my experience once they start moving across the frame too quickly the cameras don't seem able to determine their new position and the focus box gets left behind - on the birds tail in that last frame if I remember correctly.
The solution is to either pan at the same speed or nearly the same speed - and that's nearly impossible, or to shoot them at an angle so they fly towards the camera and therefor minimise the focus box(eye) movement across the frame.
Keep us posted if you come up with a reliable solution - unfortunately I don't know anyone shooting Canon let alone the R1 to test it out myself.
p.2 #15 · R5 Mark II, precapture and bird flying from a perch out of focus
Late to the party but, IMO, this is just the limits of the tech we have now. I've been complaining about this problem since the 7D2. The cameras can easily track a target moving that speed or faster, because its anticipating the movement based on previous movement. However, in this case... it can't anticipate. The camera has to react, and that takes a couple of feet to pickup and run with the calculations. I've been told the A1 is the same, and I assume Nikons are as well. With that in mind, I assume the maturity of tech is the problem.
It is good that it has a spotlight, because that may get companies to really investigate resolutions or mitigation options.
Currently, the best option is to use a greater DOF, so the camera has a little buffer to catch up with its calculations. IMO, the R5 and R5 II don't improve materially with case parameter changes, but maybe you'll feel differently.
And as mentioned previously, the results are effectively identical for me, with and without pre-capture on. I agree with the previous poster that the Canon disclaimer is a nod to the fact they know its not going to work perfectly.
The positive side... the crazy F/stops on Canon's new lenses lend themselves very well to this problem and will be a Band-Aid and help the problem to appear less crucial.
