goo0h wrote:
the competition is heating up with Cosina announcing the 28/2 apo for e-mount?
Not really, because the lenses are too different in too many areas.
Starting with the price, at least in the EU, the price of the CV 28mm F2 APO-Lanthar for Z-mount will be around €1,149 with 20% VAT.
A Simera 28mm F1.4 ASPH. Z is currently available from Thypoch for €400, and was even available for €350 at one point, also including 20% VAT.
So these are completely different price ranges.
Then there is the difference in optical design philosophy.
The APO-Lanthar series is designed for maximum resolution, high contrast, and minimal chromatic aberration.
It is therefore aimed at a different target audience, where the primary focus is on a lens that is optically corrected as perfectly as possible even at maximum aperture, with very high sharpness consistency across the entire frame at f/2.
Factors such as non-CPU and non-optimized for the respective filter stacks of the different mounts further limit Thypoch's target audience compared to Cosina/Voigtländer.
Many people are already quite wary of MF, and when you add in things like no focus confirmation, no Exif, or, in the case of Nikon Z, No Recall shooting function (works only with chipped lenses), it tends to be something for die-hard MF enthusiasts, who like the special rendering and are willing to compromise on comfort for it
In other words, it has a different focus than a Thypoch Simera.
Therefore, I do not see any direct competition, as both lenses have different focuses and are also predestined for different areas of application.
For me, the 28/1.4 Simera is predestined for environmental portraits.
There, it shines with its maximum aperture of f/1.4 and very harmonious rendering, as well as beautiful bokeh.
On the other hand, lenses such as the Apo-Lanthar series are ideal for landscapes and architecture, where it's important to capture the finest details and where I want a very high level of optical correction and extremely high resolution right into the corners across the entire frame.
Even though there is some overlap, especially when stopped down, the Thypoch Simera 28mm f/1.4 and the CV 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar Z have very different areas of application for me and that would also apply to a CV 28mm f/2 APO-Lanthar.
Also note that the CV 28 APO is full! Of ED glass elements
What I’m gathering right now is that more ED does not translate to natural 3D face profiles.
I’m seeing this with the CV 65 which has no ED compared to the CV110 that is almost entirely made of ED glass - although they both correct chromatically excellently (APO)
The portrait pictures I’m seeing from the 110 apo are not nice
I’m liking the pop from the simera 35 - it has no ED glass
Also the simera 28 has proven much better pop factor - that’s why I chose it over the CV 28 nokton.
Pop pop pop - lol
Coming to think that I prefer asphericals / high refractive index glass elements for sharpness/contrast and naturally perceivable depth over much ED to avoid CA.
Edit: the Zeiss 55/1.8 has 3 aspherical elements - that’s it
It’s famous for its rendition and I’m considering sticking with it as opposed to the 50 simera
The 40 nokton was a blast’ having two double sided aspherical elements and no ED Glass
Getting interesting to think about the lens diagrams in combination to looking at picture samples!!
mudlake wrote:
Utah Beach, Normandy. Probably at f5.6.
Just look at that handsome dude on the beach and the epic tonal variations in the grass
I wish I had an environmental pic of myself like this!
Who needs a much more expensive CV28 APO when u have a simera - I don’t.
@ftlens posted some pics from Tokio in the 28APO review, there’s one pic that stands out - the lady in the yellow dress - but she doesn’t really stand out that much… he immediately sold the lens again and says he’s waiting for the wide angle Zeiss Otus to come out eventually - even more cash!
Nov 14, 2025 at 07:22 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Happydan wrote:
Also note that the CV 28 APO is full! Of ED glass elements
What I’m gathering right now is that more ED does not translate to natural 3D face profiles.
I’m seeing this with the CV 65 which has no ED compared to the CV110 that is almost entirely made of ED glass - although they both correct chromatically excellently (APO)
The portrait pictures I’m seeing from the 110 apo are not nice
I’m liking the pop from the simera 35 - it has no ED glass
Also the simera 28 has proven much better pop factor - that’s why I chose it over the CV 28 nokton.
Pop pop pop - lol
Coming to think that I prefer asphericals / high refractive index glass elements for sharpness/contrast and naturally perceivable depth over much ED to avoid CA.
Edit: the Zeiss 55/1.8 has 3 aspherical elements - that’s it
It’s famous for its rendition and I’m considering sticking with it as opposed to the 50 simera
The 40 nokton was a blast’ having two double sided aspherical elements and no ED Glass
Getting interesting to think about the lens diagrams in combination to looking at picture samples!!...Show more →
The CV 65 f/2 APO has six APD elements. See the diagram here:
+1 to Steve. The claim that ED/APD elements make lenses look flat makes no sense to me. 3d pop is an undefinable term that cannot be objectively measured. The “3d” perception is a result of light and how one photographs. Some of the most renowned “3d” lenses like the Zeiss 21 have ed elements, same with Otuses and also some of the nikon f mount portraiture gems such as the 28/1.4 and 105/1.4.
Yes I was mistaken about the 65 (I somehow loaded the lens diagram in black and white without colors denoting the ED elements - strange!)
I won’t argue in favor of the 65 apo because I haven’t seen spectacular pop from this lens
But rather “perfection” in terms of resolution
All I’m saying is that simple of often better
Our eyes have the thinnest lens of all - simple AF.
I loved the CV 40 2.8 heliar because it matches the IQ of my Nokton 40 when stopped down to 2.8
Both these lenses have simple designs with only asphericals
I wanna do back to basics somehow and like I mentioned, the 35 simera has given me the most fun of the simeras so far (closely followed by the 28).
I’m happy to be wrong - it’s just my feeling that EDs help correct necessary CA - at what cost…
Less glass is better - always because it creates less “disturbance” for light transmission.
Makes sense to me when I consider the biology of my own eye 👁️
I see exactly zero evidence the ED glass prevents 3D rendering and your own arguments argue against it as the CV 65 has tons of ED glass.
I agree with you completely Steve.
This type of thinking has been peddled for years—ASPH, ED, APD, HRI blah blah—to “explain” (or justify) people’s subjective opinions on lenses. Some are really grasping for some reinforcement for their opinions.
All types of lenses have used all type of glass elements the last 40 years with wildly varying results. As usual, things are not so simple. It’s quite reductive.
This test by Bastian uses the m-mount simera on Sony Body
Not Sony Mount simera on Sony Body. We haven’t seen him test this
So not up to date if you ask me, as there are now simeras made for Sony
I can’t tell any IQ degradation or field curvature from my simera 28&35 made for sonyvon the sony A7riii with regular sensor glass
Or on my Sony A7iii kolari full spectrum mod.
The pictures from Russia and from mudlake speak for themselves
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I didn’t take it that way. Thypoch misses a real chance with not optimizing the lens for the mount it’s released. Oh well indeed!
Happydan wrote:
This test by Bastian uses the m-mount simera on Sony Body
Not Sony Mount simera on Sony Body. We haven’t seen him test this
So not up to date if you ask me, as there are now simeras made for Sony
I can’t tell any IQ degradation or field curvature from my simera 28&35 made for sonyvon the sony A7riii with regular sensor glass
Or on my Sony A7iii kolari full spectrum mod.
The pictures from Russia and from mudlake speak for themselves
Look at the page before this for Simera 28/1.4 E-version on a stock and Leica sensor stack thickness. Because you don’t notice doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
Happydan wrote:
Also note that the CV 28 APO is full! Of ED glass elements
What I’m gathering right now is that more ED does not translate to natural 3D face profiles.
I’m seeing this with the CV 65 which has no ED compared to the CV110 that is almost entirely made of ED glass - although they both correct chromatically excellently (APO)
The portrait pictures I’m seeing from the 110 apo are not nice
I’m liking the pop from the simera 35 - it has no ED glass
Also the simera 28 has proven much better pop factor - that’s why I chose it over the CV 28 nokton.
Pop pop pop - lol
Coming to think that I prefer asphericals / high refractive index glass elements for sharpness/contrast and naturally perceivable depth over much ED to avoid CA.
Edit: the Zeiss 55/1.8 has 3 aspherical elements - that’s it
It’s famous for its rendition and I’m considering sticking with it as opposed to the 50 simera
The 40 nokton was a blast’ having two double sided aspherical elements and no ED Glass
Getting interesting to think about the lens diagrams in combination to looking at picture samples!!...Show more →
ED elements have been used in some of the most character rich glass ever created- For example, The Leica 50 Summilux ASPH has ED elemnts and is "APO" by design.
The product designers goals for the lens determines the character and output from it and use the proper glass to achieve it. Its great Thypoch was able to copy some of these "APO" designs to achieve an utput they desired but stop this non-sense of APO equals flat and bad. Its shows little knowledge of what you are actually talking about.
Furthermore, its my understanding that your beloved character lens maker Thypoch also uses ED elements in the 50 Symera....That lens must suck now..Same with the 28.
Again- Lens design goals. Glass elements help achieve outcomes
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Look at the page before this for Simera 28/1.4 E-version on a stock and Leica sensor stack thickness. Because you don’t notice doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
This forum is overrun by folks with little apparent ability to identify such nuanced differences and in the end, few seem to care. It's not worth arguing over.
RoamingScott wrote:
This forum is overrun by folks with little apparent ability to identify such nuanced differences and in the end, few seem to care. It's not worth arguing over.
Perhaps I’ll post a hype YouTube video to refute your logic!
But yes, I agree with you. I don’t really mind that people have that type of loopy logic (or non-logic) for themselves.
But it gets under my skin when they’re propagating those type of views and information and people actually believe them. I guess I just don’t like misinformation very much 🤷
Yes, correct - I was contemplating exchanging the 50 simera back to a CV nokton (40 or 50 whereas I was wondering WHY cosina added an ED element to the 50 and the 40 got most traction online. The only difference I could tell in comparing them was the lack of onion ring structures in the 50s specular highlights)
PS: I got equally sharp pics from the 40/2.8 heliar as with the 40 nokton at 2.8!!!
But I decided to stick with the simera because I appreciate its high sharpness wide open - even when decreasing MFD with the helicoid adapter to get close up to flora & fauna. Plus the tech art addition is nice even tho I don’t use it because I’m faster with MF than the tech art with AF.
The 28 still proves impressive results with ED
The 35 lacks ED and is special indeed. There’s an interesting review of the 35 on 35mmc.com
I mentioned this before,I’ve always wanted Leica quality but would never pay for it. Thanks to thypoch i am content in this regard. It’s a shame really that they just straight up copied leicas R&D regarding lens designs and only slightly modified them by changing the FLE or whatnot. But someone was gonna do that eventually. Photography is a big copycat game. Being authentic/different takes much more work.
Maybe that’s why there’s so much mistrust in the simeras; “how dare you copy the best, you can’t be any good at that price”
Regarding the 21 and 75 they are obvious copies of the CV Noktons.
Chinese copycats
@RoamingScott I’m okay with my experience barometer being low, it’s not for words to „convince“, but more the pictures shared. I take pictures, I don’t pixel peep, because no one in real life is gonna look at my pics in 1:1 apart from you folks
Peace
RustyRus wrote:
ED elements have been used in some of the most character rich glass ever created- For example, The Leica 50 Summilux ASPH has ED elemnts and is "APO" by design.
The product designers goals for the lens determines the character and output from it and use the proper glass to achieve it. Its great Thypoch was able to copy some of these "APO" designs to achieve an utput they desired but stop this non-sense of APO equals flat and bad. Its shows little knowledge of what you are actually talking about.
Furthermore, its my understanding that your beloved character lens maker Thypoch also uses ED elements in the 50 Symera....That lens must suck now..Same with the 28.
Again- Lens design goals. Glass elements help achieve outcomes ...Show more →
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Got my 28/1.4 e-mount copy yesterday evening. Just a couple photos at the dog park.
I mean; what’s not to like about these pics. Much nicer acutance & color graduation than the 28 nokton imo
Excellent images, I’m not gonna zoom in on a jpeg compressed to 1.4mb to see if I really like it
A big one for me is also the color saturation of the simeras. This helps so much when converting to B/W.
Happydan wrote:
I mean; what’s not to like about these pics. Much nicer acutance & color graduation than the 28 nokton imo
Excellent images, I’m not gonna zoom in on a jpeg compressed to 1.4mb to see if I really like it
A big one for me is also the color saturation of the simeras. This helps so much when converting to B/W.
The heart knows
The head questions
Thanks for the kind words! I actually do like the Simera 28, and I enjoyed the 50 (which I posted on FM when I tried it). Not perfect lenses for me because I like a little more personality, but I will pick up a 28/1.4 an (m-mount) when I find a well-priced one. That way I can shoot it on e-mount, film, use a helicoid for better close focus and potentially other mounts with no IQ loss relative to shooting an e-mount Sony version (where you are forced to eat the IQ loss).
Funnily enough, both the CV 28/1.5 and Simera 28/1.4 have weak midzones--often where I place my subjects. Oh well.
For what its worth, i just read this on the 35mmc.com post link
“The Thypoch team is committed to maintaining the exceptional performance of the original M-mount lenses while fine-tuning the new mount solutions for optimal results. The release of Z/E/X/RF mount lenses will provide photographers with enhanced capabilities to capture transient moments with precision and clarity.” – Thypoch Press Release
Regarding my huntch on ED glass I’ll share Ken’s rant here fyi
I don’t care to argue with anyone, I’m just looking for “my perfect lens(es)”
We all have different preferences
But physics doesn’t care. More glass = more resistance to pure light transmission
Thypoch misses a real chance with not optimizing the lens for the mount it’s released. Oh well indeed!
